F1 2012: (perhaps) Interesting fact

[cruyff]

Compare:

And:

Notice the difference between the specific teams, and how much time each one lost. Another nice statistic is the 107% lap time.

I am not going to post my opinion about this. The conclusions are yours to make. You might think that this doesn't even make any sense. I respect that. However, one thing is for sure:

[sarcasm]I want to thank the FIA for changing the regulations perfectly and giving us close, wheel-to-wheel racing once again. Because, in such a progressive sport, we must always go backwards.[/sarcasm]

I know it's the first race. And I also know that Melbourne is not a "normal" circuit. We'll know better in Malaysia, but still the difference is huge. And to those who say that Mclaren had equalled Red Bull in terms of performance late-season, remember that in Brazil Vettel was faster than them with gearbox issues, not to mention the pole lap, which reminded me of the 11-11 bug in F1-2011.

But enough digression. What do you think?

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Like you said, Melbourne is not conventional track. Since it's used only once per year (i think) the track conditions improve every lap, they are laying a lot of rubber on it during the GP.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Not sure i get what you mean..

0.778 seconds between Hamilton / Vettel - 2011.
0.726 seconds between Hamilton / Vettel - 2012.

Webber had no KERS, Vettel made a mistake on his lap. the gap is smaller but i´m sure the Mclaren is still ahead.
0.1-0.2 seconds i´d say.

Different tires this year as well.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Oh, i looked those completely wrong.. Ignore my post... :oops:

 

[GAIAjohan]

So ultimately with a removed blown diffuser and changed regulations of the height of the nose Red Bull is 2 seconds slower, while McLaren lost about 0.4sec.

I don't see the problem at all. The blown diffuser didn't have any use for street car purposes. So there really was no point in developing it any further. Also there are different tyres.

The ever gloryfying of the 80's or 90's is getting a bit tiring.
In 1997 Jacques Villeneuve his pole lap was 1:29.3. Quite a tad slower than nowadays..

Sports sometimes need regulation changes, sometimes for safety sometimes to fix loopholes you don't want.

I think it's cool last race was so close. The fact McLaren lost less is because their car relied less on the blown diffuser.

 

[William Levesque]

Don't forget that the track was pretty "green" this year with all that rain...

 

[GAIAjohan]

I'm wondering how precise the time measuring is.

The Dutch and International Ice Skating Unions have admitted that it isn't proven they can reliably measure in thousands of seconds.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://nos.nl/artikel/352291-tijdmeting-schaatsen-wankel.html

 

[ENDR]

remember that in Brazil Vettel was faster than them with gearbox issues

Ahh yes, the gearbox issue. They even have a codename for it: "let_Webber_win_for_a_change_v2011".

 

[cruyff]

So ultimately with a removed blown diffuser and changed regulations of the height of the nose Red Bull is 2 seconds slower, while McLaren lost about 0.4sec.

I don't see the problem at all. The blown diffuser didn't have any use for street car purposes. So there really was no point in developing it any further. Also there are different tyres.

The ever gloryfying of the 80's or 90's is getting a bit tiring.
In 1997 Jacques Villeneuve his pole lap was 1:29.3. Quite a tad slower than nowadays..

Sports sometimes need regulation changes, sometimes for safety sometimes to fix loopholes you don't want.

I think it's cool last race was so close. The fact McLaren lost less is because their car relied less on the blown diffuser.

a) It is rather unlikely that street cars will use DRS in the future, so I think we should definitely "not develop it any further" too.
b) Tires are faster this season (i.e generally more grip)
c) I did not glorify the 90's. I simply compared the 2011 times with the 2012 times, and it seems that the difference is tragic despite the better tires (and the fact that next year's cars are normally as fast, if not faster).

I am not a Vettel fan, but I just want to see what all those people who hated him (because for some strange reason, taking a few pole positions in a row can make people hate you) have to say if Button and Hamilton dominate the exact same way he did.

Ahh yes, the gearbox issue. They even have a codename for it: "let_Webber_win_for_a_change_v2011".

Team orders are allowed now if I'm not mistaken, so why create such a story? Thay could have just told him to take it slow and let Webber through, or give him worse pit-stops (like last race in Australia with Hamilton). Unless you're saying Webber sabotaged Vettel's gearbox.... (that would certainly explain the Abu Dhabi issue)

 

[Victor Ivanov]

FIA changed the rules just because they can't afford that kind of championship. Nobody want to watch battle for 2nd place. Everybody want the battle for 1st and Vettel made F1 as boring as it was back in 2004.

 

[ENDR]

Team orders are allowed now if I'm not mistaken, so why create such a story? Thay could have just told him to take it slow and let Webber through, or give him worse pit-stops (like last race in Australia with Hamilton). Unless you're saying Webber sabotaged Vettel's gearbox.... (that would certainly explain the Abu Dhabi issue)

I don't know why the hipocrisy (fear of making the sport "fall into disrepute"?), BUT: a mysterious gearbox problem that makes Vettel slow down enough for Webber to overtake him, take the lead and win the GP, thus securing the 3rd place in the drivers' championship, but somehow fixes itself after a few laps, letting Vettel cover Webber's back... Oh, yeah - that's VERY likely.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

I don't know why the hipocrisy (fear of making the sport "fall into disrepute"?), BUT: a mysterious gearbox problem that makes Vettel slow down enough for Webber to overtake him, take the lead and win the GP, thus securing the 3rd place in the drivers' championship, but somehow fixes itself after a few laps, letting Vettel cover Webber's back... Oh, yeah - that's VERY likely.

You forgot the fastest lap of the race with broken gearbox

 

[ENDR]

Riight... I'm guessing the gearbox didn't downshift so poor Vettel had to stay on 6th-7th gear in slow corners, which made him go MUCH, much faster than the whole rest. Yeah, that must be it.

 

[Ivan Mills]

DRS was introduced in F1 in an attempt to make the sport more exciting,and even though it is an artificial way of "passing",it is still better then no passing at all,(like it used to be),so i dont see that going away anytime soon,besides you cant have every single bit of F1 technology being used in street car production

Team orders are allowed now if I'm not mistaken, so why create such a story? Thay could have just told him to take it slow and let Webber through, or give him worse pit-stops (like last race in Australia with Hamilton). Unless you're saying Webber sabotaged Vettel's gearbox.... (that would certainly explain the Abu Dhabi issue)

i dont believe the team will just go ahead and ask their "just crowned 2xWDC who broke the world record for most poles/seasson to just go slow and move over so his teammate can win one too"...and do you actually think SV would move over and let MW win one just like that.. i wouldnt! If we assume that both drivers had an equal shot at the title and SV really did trounce Webber like he did,(without the help of the team),then he shouldnt be in that car(Webber),or he shouldnt be winning anything!But we know this isnt the case ,since Webber was easily matching Vettel in '10,so then you are left with the scenario where RB kept MW out of SV way in '11 so he can have an uninterupted go at the WDC,and if that is indeed the case,why would they tell Vettel to move out of the way for Mark,when they never told Mark to go slow until Seb wins the title...
In a nutshell,teams just dont tell their drivers to go slow and let teamates through for the WIN!..unless u're at Ferrari ,cuz that just plain ridicilous and FANS dont like it one bit and drivers even less so!!....instead they just line you up for the fall and you go down with some problem,simple..and whether that problem is a bad pitstop or a mechanical peroblem is irrelevant really...giving SV a bad pitstop would've been too obvious to the fans imo

 

[Diego Lopez]

it was team orders in Brazil, clear and simple, just as asking webber to "maintain the gap"...although both of them should know better after the Istanbul crash of shame.

im glad for reg changes, 1 Ferrari era is enough, I dont blame Schumacer because he was just simply fast...in a fast car and slow one ..or Senna naturally fast driver...in a slow car or fast car....

Lewis also had gearbox issues but they were legit..and gave out
Alonso(2010 Malaysia) had box issues and broke down just b4 the end of the race yet he managed better than Vettel.
Myself (F1 2011 Brazil Wet GP) won ot all the wa from the back having a upshift paddle about to brake, which a piece snapped off and yet i won that race in the Wet
Vettel in Brazil, any1 who has seen replays of box issues can tell when the box is about to go bad, or its just having issues....in this case Vettels soudned just fine he played it off....and how DARE him, how DARE him to think he was Senna....the kid had all gears, supreme downforce, and it was 100% dry, in Sennas case he worked his butt off to win that race, so no he cant compare himself to any1 but himself...how dare him....anyways.

Mclaren ftw this year.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Yea the Senna comment was a bit too much, i just facepalmed when i heard that and said "yea right" at the TV.

 

[Diego Lopez]

Yeah Hampus, even the guys on Speed TV sounded perplexed at the radio message...they went off after the race just commenting about the so called "gearbox" issue and they played it about 4 laps before the radio message and 4 laps after and it was just fine (onboard camera), yet they could see that Vettel was just upshifting and downshifting slightly earlier that usual a few times but the rest seemed in sync, and their conclusion was pretty much everyone elses conclusion that in order to get Alonso out of the 3rd place WC was to get MW onto 1st, and they also mentioned that the radio message was the most obvious one since 2010 German GP....
I understand it was a total legal call.....but they could of just played it off at the pits, which would of seem much legit than a radio message...+ Vettel coice sounded liek there was no real issue anyways.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Probably to not tell Webber as i know he did not like that idea of being given a position as "help".

But i´m glad Ferrari made it so public as it´s a silly thing in the first place. It´s been going on for years this and it´s the team that has put in billions in the sport, not the drivers. They also run for a championship so they should have some saying when it comes to teammates.

However i did not really like the "hold your position" for Webber, it´s completely different then Alonso incident where he was clearly faster and Vettel was closing in so to ensure they lock in first they told Massa to let him past.

For Webber it was a tragic thing to see, he had the pace, he was clearly quicker but get´s the nod to not pass and not race.
Just tag along behind must suck.

 

[cruyff]

Ok, so it was an indirect team order, I get it. (it's still legal though)
Now to something else:

FIA changed the rules just because they can't afford that kind of championship. Nobody want to watch battle for 2nd place. Everybody want the battle for 1st and Vettel made F1 as boring as it was back in 2004.

At last.

You think I want a championship where the same team wins every time? Of cource not. But I'd prefer it to a championship where the last year's champions have a smaller chance of winning because the are last year's champions. In other words, I want the best to actually win. I would also love to see cars that are faster than their predecessors.

Ironically, the 2004 season featured some of the fastest cars in the world, if not the fastest. However, I don't remember whether 2005 cars were faster or not.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

2004 cars had 3.0 V10s reaching around 1000 HP of course they were faster.