Cars DRM Revival [Deleted]

[Cote Dazur]

Bought the pack, haven't been able to drive it since I won't have my wheel ready for a while. Did watch the cars do an AI race. They look good to me, sound good, I see the poor textures etc mentioned, but nothing that's a deal breaker.

But I have to ask: I was looking at the rear suspension points, and noticed the 935 are very different from the Kunos car. You can see that the rear suspension is even visually nicely modeled underneath, but the suspension.ini attachment points don't correspond.

On the right, the Kunos 935 Moby Dick:
View attachment 245902



Is this a different interpretation of the trailing arm suspension that I just don't understand?

Curious, is this only cosmetic or does it have a connection to the physic?

On this subject, I found this "Although widened and strengthened, the suspension was of a similar design as the earlier 935s"
HERE

Funny enough on that pic of the mod cars the front suspension design is not identical but more similar, the back are 2 different design though.

 

[arthur666]

Curious, is this only cosmetic or does it have a connection to the physic?

In that pic, the yellow lines' ends represent the suspension arm pivot points in the suspension.ini file, so it controls how the wheel moves in the physics. The 3d modeled/textured suspension arms are cosmetic only.

 

[Cote Dazur]

In that pic, the yellow lines' ends represent the suspension arm pivot points in the suspension.ini file, so it controls how the wheel moves in the physics. The 3d modeled/textured suspension arms are cosmetic only.

So just the yellow lines? how about the blue lines and the red lines? Do they also affect the way the car behave (physics)

 

[arthur666]

So just the yellow lines? how about the blue lines and the red lines? Do they also affect the way the car behave (physics)

Well, yeah, but the yellow is the lower arms, which is the most obvious to look at when you're doing a quick comparison. The red is the upper arms, blue is STEER (only active on the front suspension?). Here's what it looks like in an example .ini file, 3 axis positions:

[REAR]
TYPE=DWB
...
WBCAR_TOP_FRONT=0.400, 0.000, 0.100 ; RED
WBCAR_TOP_REAR=0.400, 0.000, -0.100 ; RED
WBCAR_BOTTOM_FRONT=0.160, -0.150, 0.380 ; YELLOW
WBCAR_BOTTOM_REAR=0.640, -0.150, 0.280 ; YELLOW
WBTYRE_TOP=0.105, 0.075, 0.020 ; RED
WBTYRE_BOTTOM=0.090, -0.139, 0.025 ; YELLOW
WBCAR_STEER=0.640, -0.150, 0.200 ; BLUE
WBTYRE_STEER=0.090, -0.139, 0.200 ; BLUE
...

 

[Ghoults]

Physics wise these are somewhat difficult cars for ac to handle. Iirc ac solid axles don't handle camber or toe and both of these values are common for solid rear axle race cars. Or any other solid axle specific setup adjustments (panhard height...). Other thing is the rear suspension of the porsches (+bmw 320, maybe the 3.5 csl?) which in reality have a trailing arm suspension in the rear (in ac this done by double wishbone suspension like modern race cars). You can do an approximation with dwb but not identical.

In case of the solid axles the lack of toe and camber makes the cars little harder to drive as toe and camber improve grip and stability on the rear. In case of the porsches the better dwb suspension makes them little easier and better to drive compared to the typical porsche rear suspension from that era. Of course all ac cars in ac suffer from these same issues to some degree.

 

[ALB123]

Have a look at my video racing against the AI: http://www.racedepartment.com/media/videos/assetto-corsa-vr-drm-revival-bikernieki-race-track.30409/

I have no trouble with the brakes there and I’m not an alien, mid level at best. The tracks I have tried until now are Road America, Watkins Glen, Oesterreichring 1979, Nogaro, Laguna Seca. On every track you just have to know that the brakes won’t work 100% for the first couple of laps, once you realize and adjust your driving to that fact it will be fine.

Thank you for taking the time to not only respond, but show of video of your experiences. First off, very nice driving...and you couldn't have picked a nicer track. I love that place and I hope the author hasn't given up on it since it's listed as v0.5...

I had a feeling I should have looked at this much sooner and now I wish I had. Just a few minutes ago I opened up the data.acd files on two of the new DRM mod cars and one other car. My goal was to examine how the brake temperature curves are on those DRM cars compared to the curves on the control car which shall remain nameless due to forum rules.

Anyway, the mod DRM cars take a substantially slower climb to peak performance, what we would call "fully warm" and 100% braking power compared to the control car. With the control car you're already experiencing 70% of the braking capability at 10 degrees, whereas you don't experience 70% of the braking capability on the DRM cars until 150 degrees.

I'm sorry, but I don't want to push my luck with the forum rules or with Kunos (eyes are everywhere ) by saying any more except I am now aware of why the "feeling" of braking ability feels so different.

Again, thank you to @Fabian Biehne for providing the video which made me want to dig deeper than just the surface. Very nice racing by him...most of these cars give me quite big fits.

 

[mantasisg]

This is incredible ! And I really like it and happy to experience this. You are free to click "disagree", if you disagree that I am happy.

Lardo overall in my opinion has no issues, at least i haven't found any yet.

Miseluk - perfect track for DRM ?

 

[Paintboxer]

I just wanted to say that with having the mod a weekend now, It just keeps getting better for me.
Friday night, first time out with the BMW 2002, I just couldn't click with it at all and was almost a disappointment. Took it back out tonight at Brands Hatch and it was just perfect! The little sweet spot in 2nd around 6-7K rev's, the power delivery is just real nice. This is just giving me such satisfaction and reassurance there is a lot of depth, when it comes to the handling in this mod. So much more to discover with the more time I give to each car.

Also I love the dynamic of the cold brakes! Seems a few people are not, but its such a nice touch and its expected when driving old cars in real life. I got experience with riding old motorbikes and I have been translating that over with more of a squeeze of the brakes, for that first lap or two. Gives you such a buzz when them and the tires get warmed up, crank up the turbo boost and then start laying the times down. I really hope the team don't back track with it!

 

[SunBro]

Well, now that i've driven them all in all types of tracks. The only negative side i can find with this mod is some models being out of date. That's it. The sounds are real nice. Not superb or out of this world like fonsecker or neverkrash but it's good. The phsyics is especially the noteworthy part because if you drive them all, you'll see they're very different from each other and comparable to a few real life videos.(disclaimer: i'm a noob)

About some models: 935 k1 and the two bmws. 320 and 2002. That's it. Just three models out of 10. Now don't get me wrong... when you inspect the other cars, you very much clearly see they're conversions from an old rfactor mod. But they're simply not as bad as people make them to be. Carma and bmw m1 looks damn fine for their age. Considering the devs said they're working on new models for porsche and the 320, the 2002 will be left alone as the only ugly duckling in the family but eh, it's still driveable me thinks

All in all, do not get this if you're "RSS QUALITY OR BUST!" get this if you don't care so much about models. Because the physics are worth it. Love the absolute loss of control when you're way too hard on the brakes!

 

[Jo Benevelli]

For more info, carma was built from scratch in 2013 with a modeling software nurbs surface , then in 2016 we had the opportunity to get on the real car so we have the exact references and all the details of the interior and we completely redid the whole interior from zero. the "Puriano 3h" was made from scratch in 2015 with a polygonal modeler software.

 

[Pedro Lebre]

you are totally wrong Indeed i think that the DRM mod would have better FFB and Sound in RF2 (sound in rf1 is even better then here in AC) but i must honestly say that i am not (yet) a very big AC fan but i like this mod in AC and 15 euro - RD discount just 12 euro is very cheap , ppl wining about expensive shouyld stay away from sim racing and develope there own racesim

I was a great fan of ISI and is rF1, even take my part at a modding team and own rF2. To say the true never fire it again after AC firsts releases. I belive now rF2 now must be very differente, but you see, theres a lot of oficial AC cars that i'd only made a couple laps, this is a time issue.
Between the best physics and the most realistic driving feel, l choose AC . Just drove the F 330 P4 at Glava Zete v1, well, well.
In Kunos I trust because his talent, passion and dedication.

 

[SunBro]

For more info, carma was built from scratch in 2013 with a modeling software nurbs surface , then in 2016 we had the opportunity to get on the real car so we have the exact references and all the details of the interior and we completely redid the whole interior from zero. the "Puriano 3h" was made from scratch in 2015 with a polygonal modeler software.

Thanks for details. Now excuse my nagging but can you confirm that new 935 k1 and 320 models will be published in the future? Not asking for time. Just want to make sure.

 

[Jo Benevelli]

Thanks for details. Now excuse my nagging but can you confirm that new 935 k1 and 320 models will be published in the future? Not asking for time. Just want to make sure.

Yes 4 pieces !

 

[Shigeno427]

I gave the M1 its 30 minutes of fame as per the other cars I've driven from the pack so far.

I shan't bother with a long review again, I thought instead I'd elaborate on the areas that stood out for improvement (in my very humble opinion) with the M1.

The engine note itself is perhaps a little quiet in the mix (set to 10 in the in game app, most other stuff is around 5-7), although at WOT it does improve significantly.

FFB, I really don't know how much of this is just a result of the physics and so outside of the team's control, but I'm still not feeling any feedback about the transition from front grip to understeer through the wheel. I don't think this is unique to the mod cars and as I said before is maybe related to slick tyres which I'm not as familiar with, but it does give the front end a sort of imprecise feel.

Understeer tyre noise. Tyre audio level is only set to 5, so I could of course just up the setting, but I've used everything "out of the box" with no changes to try and make an informed comparison to other content, and so have left my volume mix at the levels I am used to. With this in mind, the tyre slip noises seem a little quiet. The understeer slip sound is a relatively low pitch and until I really listened for it whilst intentionally over rotating the wheel, I hadn't noticed it at all.

Combining this lack of audio feedback about front end grip with the (to my hands at least) lack of force feedback about front end grip and there's again this feeling of lacking precision, you don't know what the nose is up to, and so it feels wooly.

As mentioned before I'm only using a g25 though... I've not touched any of the Kunos FFB settings or logitech profiler settings either, again just trying to keep everything as it was for comparing this mod.

As far as brakes were concerned, from the pits at Magione, I had no brakes at all for the first 2 hairpins, dragged the brake a little before the straight and the braking had already improved appreciably by the end of the back straight.

Another lap and they seemed fine and stayed fine, no more brake dragging or anything else used.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Should we "drag" the brakes on stomp on them first and then modulate as Aris was suggesting in this post.
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...al-networks-thread.35257/page-192#post-773823

If you're talking about the old vintage Porsche (911 RSR, 935/78, 917/30), then you need to fully press the pedal at start in order to heat up the brakes... then start to modulate. Watch out with the moby dick, on long brake distances circuits like monza, you might need to push the brake bias to the front, because you might get the rear too good to the heat zone and lock them up before the fronts.

I think applying full pressure works better as you can heat them up faster, you can monitor brake temp in Sideckick.

 

[Patrick McTie]

I agree with you 100%. Was this a race against the AI or humans? Either way, both should be suffering from the same lack of heat as we are, but I'm wondering if AI doesn't have to worry about brake temperature the way that we do with some cars. The are some different driving capabilities (or physics, if you will) between us and the AI drivers. Regardless...I just wish they address this issue in a future update.

I've only been racing against the AI so far, and I think they may be cheating, but just a bit. It's not that they were a lot faster through the corners at the start of the race, they did seem to slow down a bit more than normal. It was mainly that while I was carrying the same, slower speed than normal, my tires just wouldn't bite at all and sent me wide. Again, I think that it's something that could be solved by Assetto Corsa giving the option for a formation lap prior to race start.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Can you guys please normalize FFB multipliers, at the moment there are extremes like BMW M1 that need at least -20% and Lancia Beta Montecarlo that needs +20%.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

In Toyota Celica "in/out car" showroom function doesn't work.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Yep, M1 has rather lifeless force feedback even when fully warmed up
As well as 935 K2.(Puriano H1).

I gave the M1 its 30 minutes of fame as per the other cars I've driven from the pack so far.

I shan't bother with a long review again, I thought instead I'd elaborate on the areas that stood out for improvement (in my very humble opinion) with the M1.

The engine note itself is perhaps a little quiet in the mix (set to 10 in the in game app, most other stuff is around 5-7), although at WOT it does improve significantly.

FFB, I really don't know how much of this is just a result of the physics and so outside of the team's control, but I'm still not feeling any feedback about the transition from front grip to understeer through the wheel. I don't think this is unique to the mod cars and as I said before is maybe related to slick tyres which I'm not as familiar with, but it does give the front end a sort of imprecise feel.

Understeer tyre noise. Tyre audio level is only set to 5, so I could of course just up the setting, but I've used everything "out of the box" with no changes to try and make an informed comparison to other content, and so have left my volume mix at the levels I am used to. With this in mind, the tyre slip noises seem a little quiet. The understeer slip sound is a relatively low pitch and until I really listened for it whilst intentionally over rotating the wheel, I hadn't noticed it at all.

Combining this lack of audio feedback about front end grip with the (to my hands at least) lack of force feedback about front end grip and there's again this feeling of lacking precision, you don't know what the nose is up to, and so it feels wooly.

As mentioned before I'm only using a g25 though... I've not touched any of the Kunos FFB settings or logitech profiler settings either, again just trying to keep everything as it was for comparing this mod.

As far as brakes were concerned, from the pits at Magione, I had no brakes at all for the first 2 hairpins, dragged the brake a little before the straight and the braking had already improved appreciably by the end of the back straight.

Another lap and they seemed fine and stayed fine, no more brake dragging or anything else used.

 

[SunBro]

Yes 4 pieces !

Thank You