Authorised Vendor DK Sigma Motion System | USA Made

[vannib]

It was a dumb joke, but it does overlap with some reality so it wasn't too clear. We are not good at jokes either it seems. Maybe awkward dad jokes followed by silence.

I wish we could just pretend, lol, then we would have 600+ titles supported, over 640,000 effects with Truest G-Forces(tm), and so much traction loss that you would never lose any traction. (ok stopping now)

In all seriousness, those were very good questions and in a world of online marketing, half truths and exuberant claims its really hard to discern what is the best product fit for you. Considering this is also an expensive purchase, it takes time to understand and decide. Ofcourse. Peace!

That's true, business-wise (i'm an entrepreneur) you should invest some few Ks in making it clear why you are different vs. competition. It looks like you are very passionate and competente engineers, just lack some marketing BS. Which would not be BS in your case, but simply explaining in layman terms why you think you are better than competition.

I'm a nerd and now i understand it, but a simple chart explaining the "You vs. Others" would be very helpful.

Like, i didn't have a clue on how these things worked, at the moment i'm sitting on a set-up that is a seat mover + a traction loss system, it costs more than your DK2, and i'm pretty sure it performs worse.

 

[SigmaMotion]

That's true, business-wise (i'm an entrepreneur) you should invest some few Ks in making it clear why you are different vs. competition. It looks like you are very passionate and competente engineers, just lack some marketing BS. Which would not be BS in your case, but simply explaining in layman terms why you think you are better than competition.

I'm a nerd and now i understand it, but a simple chart explaining the "You vs. Others" would be very helpful.

Like, i didn't have a clue on how these things worked, at the moment i'm sitting on a set-up that is a seat mover + a traction loss system, it costs more than your DK2, and i'm pretty sure it performs worse.

Valid point.

Marketing BS is a slippery slope but you are probably right. We don't want to preach and obviously are biased to our product. We like the slow but steady word of mouth approach. But could be completely wrong, this could be a Red Bull and Louise Vuitton type of market. ;-)

It's hard to discern what is better. When it comes to seat movers, we've tried a few. The entry point is amazing and its typically easy to install. However the lever type system does flex, the movements are exaggerated so you do have to turn it down and the encoder is not as accurate. But mostly heave is missing which is one of the most active layers.

Probably the best system would be a Neuro Link type implant.

 

[eLWOOD1776]

Probably the best system would be a Neuro Link type implant.

Going to wait for the reviews on that one

It's crazy to think about the future of sim racing. I sit around wondering how cool it'd be if I could dispense certain smells based on game telemetry. Meanwhile, people in the future might just plug their brains into iRacing and be able to see/hear/feel/smell/taste everything.

I assume we'd be able to feel the G's if it's anything like a dream where you're falling, but I wonder if we'll need to train like Checo so that we can actually handle the G's. I also wonder who will be responsible for figuring out what everything tastes like...I can already see the bad reviews:

"I was on the grid in the rain at Spa waiting for my race to start. I stuck my tongue out and the rain didn't taste like Belgian rain. 0/5 stars, literally unplayable".

Anyway...back on topic...It was a struggle, but I finally made up my mind and ordered a DK2+ last night. As a big guy with a heavy rig, it wasn't easy to decide between the DK2+ and DK6. I really wanted to wait around for the DK6 videos to see how they compare, but the more I read/watched, the more I leaned towards the DK2+. Honda's $1million rig really helped reinforce the "less is more" when it comes to motion. They spent a million dollars and have plenty of travel, yet it's barely moving. Also, this launch at 0:04 shows that no matter how much travel your rig has, or how much fun it looks, latency will absolutely kill the experience. The only concern I still have is VR motion compensation. I'm hoping that it really isn't necessary, but I have my doubts. The DK6 would have made the motion compensation problem even worse, so that also helped push me towards the DK2+.

I'm extremely excited for my second attempt at diving into the world of motion. My first time was a DOF P6 that I bought when motion was way too high on my priority list. The P6 was decent with my Fanatec gear, but I knew the P6 was a huge mistake as soon as I upgraded to Simucube/Heusinkveld gear and I was stuck with the weak structure. When I see pictures of a DOF P6, I'm embarrassed that I ever thought that it'd be sturdy enough. I sold it and rebuilt my rig from the ground up with a plan to add motion once I was satisfied with the rig itself. That time has come, and I can't wait to get my DK2+!

 

[SigmaMotion]

"I was on the grid in the rain at Spa waiting for my race to start. I stuck my tongue out and the rain didn't taste like Belgian rain. 0/5 stars, literally unplayable". -hahaha, so true. I think humans quickly adapt to new standards. The same was for 1080p when it came out, it took a few years for people to just accept it as the new standard from 720p, now 4K and HDR etc... But there is some truth to it, having a motion system communicate just enough so that it becomes a subtle but important cue in the background is important.

Good point on the Honda $1M dollar rig. Believe it or not $1M is easy to spend on such a project. The floor, engineering, transportation, assembly and all else quickly adds up. I would probably assume they spent more considering its an Ansible Motion Unit. They actually named their product line after us! LOL. Just kidding obviously. https://www.ansiblemotion.com/products/sigma-series

That launch latency is very interesting to me in Matthias video. I never caught that before until you mentioned it. Good catch! I don't see it as much further into the video as he drives but the shift does seem a little retarded as well. Interesting. We spent a lot of time looking at other systems when we had a BMW project (

), and just couldn't accept some of the system design decisions that were out there. We love Arduinos for example but could not achieve certain systems states with it, so opted for an embedded Texas Instruments system. And those actuators in that photo have 18" of travel and use advanced roller screws, which more than covered our 7000+ lbs requirements, BUT still a light crash broke two of them (eventually we figured out it was an assembly error from the factory)... So again we had to do our own actuators. Teknic is special though, and we think a perfect partner with their servo drives and power unit. They have the right philosophy on motion, are local to us and although double the price, they are triple the power for their frame size. We've only had a couple of warranty claims since and they have been very expedient, even with the supply chain woes.

I am also not fond of the DOF P6, although there are many people that love and use it for years. Even the seat mover has some inherent issues, or rather compromises that is makes to save costs. Maybe for flight sims it would work, something like Fasetek

will work for gentle rolling motions you want to do in regular flight training. But like most systems, as soon as you add jerk and acceleration they start to come apart. Again not saying our system is perfect or any system is perfect, but you need to be honest I think in todays world. It is the ultimate commodity online. ;-) But there are many systems out there that promise the world. I guess its the same as people buying the ultimate driving machine, taking it to the track and realizing it overheats the brakes in 2 laps and engine oil starts leaking from the filter in 4 laps (true story). Selling stories. ;-)

If you don't mind, please share photos of your rig. Would love to see.

Cheers!
Pete

 

[SigmaMotion]

Oh, sorry about the anti-climactic video, its one we usually share with clients for development process. But what I forgot to mention is that we drove a Nissan truck on top of that platform and went for a ride. We were all pleasantly surprised how well the real truck dampeners and wheels absorbed the motion. This is also where we came started to evaluate the need for an Environment Layer, amongst other theoretical reasons. But the main point is that sitting in the truck on that platform and having the motion work as it was and have the trucks tires, sway bars, linkages and suspension naturally absorb the motion was awesome. Quite real.

 

[SigmaMotion]

Also don't want to punch down at Fasetek, its a great simulator and a lot of work and effort went into it. But just like their sim might be better for flight and lighter drivers, our is better for vehicle simulations. That's it, that's all. :-P

 

[BlackFlagSimRacing]

Going to wait for the reviews on that one

It's crazy to think about the future of sim racing. I sit around wondering how cool it'd be if I could dispense certain smells based on game telemetry. Meanwhile, people in the future might just plug their brains into iRacing and be able to see/hear/feel/smell/taste everything.

I assume we'd be able to feel the G's if it's anything like a dream where you're falling, but I wonder if we'll need to train like Checo so that we can actually handle the G's. I also wonder who will be responsible for figuring out what everything tastes like...I can already see the bad reviews:

"I was on the grid in the rain at Spa waiting for my race to start. I stuck my tongue out and the rain didn't taste like Belgian rain. 0/5 stars, literally unplayable".

Anyway...back on topic...It was a struggle, but I finally made up my mind and ordered a DK2+ last night. As a big guy with a heavy rig, it wasn't easy to decide between the DK2+ and DK6. I really wanted to wait around for the DK6 videos to see how they compare, but the more I read/watched, the more I leaned towards the DK2+. Honda's $1million rig really helped reinforce the "less is more" when it comes to motion. They spent a million dollars and have plenty of travel, yet it's barely moving. Also, this launch at 0:04 shows that no matter how much travel your rig has, or how much fun it looks, latency will absolutely kill the experience. The only concern I still have is VR motion compensation. I'm hoping that it really isn't necessary, but I have my doubts. The DK6 would have made the motion compensation problem even worse, so that also helped push me towards the DK2+.

I'm extremely excited for my second attempt at diving into the world of motion. My first time was a DOF P6 that I bought when motion was way too high on my priority list. The P6 was decent with my Fanatec gear, but I knew the P6 was a huge mistake as soon as I upgraded to Simucube/Heusinkveld gear and I was stuck with the weak structure. When I see pictures of a DOF P6, I'm embarrassed that I ever thought that it'd be sturdy enough. I sold it and rebuilt my rig from the ground up with a plan to add motion once I was satisfied with the rig itself. That time has come, and I can't wait to get my DK2+!

Nice! I have a heavy rig as well and the DK2+ has room to spare on power. Hope you enjoy.

 

[eLWOOD1776]

If you don't mind, please share photos of your rig. Would love to see.

I always had this weird idea that I'd finish my basement before I started posting pics of my setup, but then I spent all of the basement budget on my rig.





Specs:
Simlab P1X
Simucube 2 Pro
Ascher F28 v1
Ascher B16L w/ OMP rim
Heusinkveld Ultimate+
Heusinkveld Handbrake v2
Prosim H-pattern (shout out to previous owner Heppsan/R-VR Closet!)
Apex P1X Dash
SRS Hurricane Wind Kit
Buttkicker Concert & Aurasound AST-2B-4 Shakers
Behringer NX4-6000
Valve Index running on 3090 FE & 5800X3D
and finally the cherry on top (bottom?), Sigma Integrale DK2+ motion system...coming soon!

***NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE***
If I didn't buy some Chainlink in 2017, idk how I would've handled this sim racing addiction. I just wish I bought more lol, might've been able to finish the basement...
***NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE***

 

[SigmaMotion]

Found a better video of our 7000lb motion setup with the actual truck on it. Again, the dampening of the truck is surreal when sitting inside the truck. Motion wise, the environment layers shines through best here with amplified road vibrations:

 

[SigmaMotion]

I always had this weird idea that I'd finish my basement before I started posting pics of my setup, but then I spent all of the basement budget on my rig.

View attachment 571590

View attachment 571591

Specs:
Simlab P1X
Simucube 2 Pro
Ascher F28 v1
Ascher B16L w/ OMP rim
Heusinkveld Ultimate+
Heusinkveld Handbrake v2
Prosim H-pattern (shout out to previous owner Heppsan/R-VR Closet!)
Apex P1X Dash
SRS Hurricane Wind Kit
Buttkicker Concert & Aurasound AST-2B-4 Shakers
Behringer NX4-6000
Valve Index running on 3090 FE & 5800X3D
and finally the cherry on top (bottom?), Sigma Integrale DK2+ motion system...coming soon!

***NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE***
If I didn't buy some Chainlink in 2017, idk how I would've handled this sim racing addiction. I just wish I bought more lol, might've been able to finish the basement...
***NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE***

That's awesome.

I purchased some StinkyLink too ! But even back then it was not enough to get a used 1992 Civic on eBay. :-P Big setup! Love it. Thanks for sharing!

 

[BlackFlagSimRacing]

I always had this weird idea that I'd finish my basement before I started posting pics of my setup, but then I spent all of the basement budget on my rig.

View attachment 571590

View attachment 571591

Specs:
Simlab P1X
Simucube 2 Pro
Ascher F28 v1
Ascher B16L w/ OMP rim
Heusinkveld Ultimate+
Heusinkveld Handbrake v2
Prosim H-pattern (shout out to previous owner Heppsan/R-VR Closet!)
Apex P1X Dash
SRS Hurricane Wind Kit
Buttkicker Concert & Aurasound AST-2B-4 Shakers
Behringer NX4-6000
Valve Index running on 3090 FE & 5800X3D
and finally the cherry on top (bottom?), Sigma Integrale DK2+ motion system...coming soon!

***NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE***
If I didn't buy some Chainlink in 2017, idk how I would've handled this sim racing addiction. I just wish I bought more lol, might've been able to finish the basement...
***NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE***

Love the keyboard solution.
DK2+ easy to install on P1X. Same one I have.

 

[eLWOOD1776]

I purchased some StinkyLink too !

Lol! Thats insane. Never would've expected to encounter a fellow marine in the niche world of sim racing.



I can't wait to see how crypto/sims merge in the future. Current public opinion on NFT's is rough, but I can see past the hundred-million-dollar-proof-of-pixelated-jpeg-ownership mania that's happening right now.

Imagine a smart-contract pink-slip drag racing game where the game content is NFT based...sign me up. I'd build a sleeper mini-van and just dust kids all day, then I'd give away their NFT cars/parts to some noobs.

 

[eLWOOD1776]

Love the keyboard solution.
DK2+ easy to install on P1X. Same one I have.

The keyboard holder, This, and This really made me wish I had a 3D printer.

Looking forward to an easy install! The DOF P6 was a struggle, it took a few days to put together spending at least an hour each night after work.

 

[BlackFlagSimRacing]

The keyboard holder, This, and This really made me wish I had a 3D printer.

Looking forward to an easy install! The DOF P6 was a struggle, it took a few days to put together spending at least an hour each night after work.

Our only issue wasn’t a Dk issue but the weight of the rig. We jacked up the rig by maxing out the simlab feet, installed actuators on top slots, lowered rig back down and removed feet. It was like something you’d do in a garage, lol.

 

[SigmaMotion]

Our only issue wasn’t a Dk issue but the weight of the rig. We jacked up the rig by maxing out the simlab feet, installed actuators on top slots, lowered rig back down and removed feet. It was like something you’d do in a garage, lol.

That's the proper way. ;-)

 

[SigmaMotion]

The keyboard holder, This, and This really made me wish I had a 3D printer.

Looking forward to an easy install! The DOF P6 was a struggle, it took a few days to put together spending at least an hour each night after work.

This is a good point. Many companies have to follow the IKEA furniture model by sending you multiple parts and pieces tightly packed for your assembly. So that $1000 extruded aluminum chassis would be probably $2000 if shipped fully assembled on a 4' x 5' pallet.

A typical assembly time for even an extruded aluminum chassis is 4-6 hours depending on your skill level, then mounting and adjusting takes many more.

 

[SigmaMotion]

Lol! Thats insane. Never would've expected to encounter a fellow marine in the niche world of sim racing.

View attachment 571606

I can't wait to see how crypto/sims merge in the future. Current public opinion on NFT's is rough, but I can see past the hundred-million-dollar-proof-of-pixelated-jpeg-ownership mania that's happening right now.

Imagine a smart-contract pink-slip drag racing game where the game content is NFT based...sign me up. I'd build a sleeper mini-van and just dust kids all day, then I'd give away their NFT cars/parts to some noobs.

Indeed, but I think like all good technologies in the past, the adoption will be long and subtle.

NFT's are just ways to give individuals absolute ownership of digital content or digital content rights. It's nothing more or nothing less and hence why the JPEG NFT craze has finally hit rock bottom. The current NFT market has no scarcity or like my favorite line from the Incredibles, "when everyone is special, than no one is." lol. So yes you have a 1 of 500 apes that look like Joe Rogan but there are thousands of other projects 'trying' to be unique and human creativity has no scarcity. That's my take on it at least.

The new RennSport game I think made a similar mistake when announcing they will use NFT's tokens when everyone was still sore from the NFT losses. I don't think it will work, although I hope it does. But for digital asset ownership to be worth something it has to be fully open, cross platform and issued by various digital content creators. Even RennSport has no incentive in issuing and creating content for other platforms. I dunno. Its really hard from my perspective.

And then you need FIA approvals, licensing and sanctioning! LOL. Just kidding.

 

[SigmaMotion]

New Software Version Launched: 1.3.113 on June 10th, 2022

New features:

• New flight heave algorithm. The previous heave algorithm was optimized for vehicles and the new algorithm was developed and optimized for aircrafts.

• Smooth motion transition between game menus and the start of a motion session. Previously, there was rough motion when starting a session. These rough telemetry signals are now filtered during the start of a session. However this filter still allows engine vibrations to come through so the user can still experience the engine starting which causes the speed to go up and settle back down to idle.

• Automatic install of game plug-ins which is required for RF2, X-Plane 11 and DCS. Previously, the user would download a file and manually copy it to a specific folder.

• Updated UI messages and tool tips for better understanding of the motion layers and the motion system.

The flight algorithm will be in part, eventually applied to some of our other ground vehicle motion layers. It has some excellent anti-saturation characteristics. Excited to test and implement and get your feedback. Will be subtle but important. Thanks all!

 

[SigmaMotion]

Some nice DK2+ unboxing beats.

 

[eLWOOD1776]

Some nice DK2+ unboxing beats.

Damn. That guy is sexy!

So, I think I'm finally through the honeymoon phase with my DK2+. I only say that because I started craving motion compensation today. I think it's because i've experienced motion comp before. After spending a week with the DK2+, i can confirm that it really isn't an absolute requirement, but IMO it will improve the experience especially if you've used motion compensation before. I haven't tried anything yet, but the gameplan is a vive tracker mounted behind my head with This plugin

Even without motion compensation, the DK2+ is still a 10/10, especially if you like dirt rally 2 (feels great in AC & iracing too, even on default settings). For me, cranking up the settings confirmed that a 6" system would have been WAY too much. This video also helped confirm that, but i placed my order before seeing that.

After being kept informed about my order status (without needing to ask for any updates), I got my tracking # in half the time that's listed on the website. Shipping was quick and I stayed home from work on the estimated delivery date, but of course UPS didnt come until after i wouldve been home from work...so, pic below was me literally meeting the UPS guy on my porch (that dude was strong, he brought both packages at once)

I was up and running 2 hours later (without reading any instructions or else i probably wouldve been done in an hour. I mounted the plates on upside-down). My first drive was in DR2 and I was immediately satisfied with my purchase. After my previous experience with a DOF P6 and then moving to this...it's hard to believe they're in the same price range.

On the hardware side the build quality is top notch, seems like it'll last forever, and the install is super easy. On the software side it's extremely simple to set up, feels great on default settings, is easy to tune and customize to preference, and has run flawlessly so far. Sigma Integrale has something special here and i really think these kits will start getting a lot more popular as more people get their hands on them.

TLDR: Absolutely love the DK2+ and highly recommend it.