Authorised Vendor DK Sigma Motion System | USA Made

[howard29_us]

Good to hear and thank-you for the feedback!

To be honest we haven't tuned or played with turbulence yet so I am pleased that its coming through the regular motion layers. (I estimate we are about 20% done with xplane11 and xplane12 is just around the corner offering better physics/dynamics) I will need to DM you to get your settings and conditions for that turbulence as my experience thus far has been too muted.

I have flown a few Cessna's in real life and never ultralights (too husky lol) but turbulence cannot be an effect IMHO. I've felt/experienced those turbulence effects before and its cool at first, but quickly becomes tiresome for me, but probably not for most. Just my opinion, but what I mean is that after a while you can feel that the effect is slowly ramping up and down, and the "variety" of the effect does not have the 'entropy' or the variation of variation that is found in nature or from various possible combinations in the sim. Each laminar flow is sooo different, so unique. A good example is a glider. The turbulence of a glider is not same, at all, as that of a 747 and that of a F-18, yet they play the same. First world problems right!

But this is going to be a challenge for us for sure and will take proper amount of time. We haven't even started discussing the various engines, such as helicopter, turbo-prop, jet, dual engine etc... LOL and their variations... a good challenge. ;-)

Hi, very impressed with your system from what I've seen in thr video reviews as well as this thread. Couple questions:

1) Are there any plans to post a video of the DK2 with a flight sim? Curious to see how it looks and feels. I assume 2" of travel works for most things, save for sharp turning, or steep climbs or descents.

2) Apologies if this has already been addressed in this thread, but SRG raised a key point in his video review, which is the lack of ability to save profiles. This is a huge deal to be able to save game-specific as well as car-specific profiles.

3) Another item he raised was a potential switch from using a RJ45 connection to a USB connection. Is there an ETA for this? I'm fine either way, however it's more plug and play friendly using USB.

 

[SigmaMotion]

Hi, very impressed with your system from what I've seen in thr video reviews as well as this thread. Couple questions:

1) Are there any plans to post a video of the DK2 with a flight sim? Curious to see how it looks and feels. I assume 2" of travel works for most things, save for sharp turning, or steep climbs or descents.

2) Apologies if this has already been addressed in this thread, but SRG raised a key point in his video review, which is the lack of ability to save profiles. This is a huge deal to be able to save game-specific as well as car-specific profiles.

3) Another item he raised was a potential switch from using a RJ45 connection to a USB connection. Is there an ETA for this? I'm fine either way, however it's more plug and play friendly using USB.

Hi @howard29_us and welcome to the DK thread.

Happy 4th of July!

1) No plans to post the video until now, as per your request. I will use our 3-actuator DK2 setup to do so. We have some basic controls and the motion is still work in progress and have many plans to make it better. Thanks.

2) Ability to save profiles has been added in 1.2.93.1 which was early January this year. More progress can be followed here too: https://www.sigmaintegrale.com/software-roadmap/

3) There is no intention at the moment to switch from the Ethernet to USB connection as this would also mean redesigning the case design to fit a USB port. We did think about this a quite a lot and take Barry's suggestion very seriously and have already implemented a couple of his suggestions already. One thing we still need to do is automate IP assignment to make the installation even easier for the end user. Installation video is here: https://www.sigmaintegrale.com/software/ (a three step process)
What we currently suggest for our customer is to use a USB to Ethernet Adapter which is available at most stores like Amazon for under $20: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GRL3VCN?psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

There are many reasons we opted to go with an ethernet connection besides USB. We think USB, obviously is a great standard for most computer peripherals, but they do have a length limitation of 18-feet or so for most devices. They also are more susceptible to EMI or noise interference. https://luisblando.medium.com/how-i-solved-the-emi-problem-in-my-simrig-3ea6c0907609

We have also tested our DK controller with a 50' and 100' network cable and have ran the controller via a smart network switch as well. The ethernet standard also allows us to very quickly add another controller to the computer and, well, add other DOF's if needed. So to sum it up:

1) ethernet is an accepted standard that is cheap/abundant
2) ethernet is less susceptible to EMI or other sources of electrical noise/feedback
3) it can run much at greater lengths than USB, or even custom lengths if you can make your own cable
4) it makes a more secure connection to the controller than a USB cable (locks in place with a tab)
5) a USB to Ethernet dongle is affordable ($20) if you do not have a native network port on your computer
6) ethernet protocol has some great future options, like sending motion telemetry to remote locations:

or from remote devices like drones, RC vehicles etc. ;-)

I hope that makes sense. We do understand that this is atypical for most consumer based home devices but we believer the DK motion system is more of a professional consumer product and requires professional level of connection. ;-)

Thanks!

 

[NetLawMan]

Love your DR2 Subaru Vid. Still trying to make a final decision on 2” vs 6”. Two questions:

1) What type of rig do you recommend for your 6” actuators which I presume is subject to much greater torque, torsion, etc.? What are the minimum and recommended setups? You specifically mentioned this in the vid, including health and safety. For example, does is need to be wider (left to right), to prevent tipping over?

2) does your environmental layer include angle of the car on the surface? For example, when going around a berm, or up on a hill in DR2?

Also, I like that you give an indication of sliding by stopping the road vibration layer. I don’t think My current d-box system does that.


Thanks

 

[NetLawMan]

Another quick question. I saw your SW roadmap. What is the plan for supporting new versions of the big titles? For example F1. Do you automatically work on those, or do you wait for a request to support it? How much time does it normally take to implement support for a particular game? Thank you.

 

[NetLawMan]

Final question:
I recognize that some games have limited capabilities in terms of motion. I also think that we may see a slight reduction of developer attention for those games when their publishers are bought out by the big gaming companies focused on consoles. That said, games like dirt rally and F1 are hugely popular and very fun. I could not live without playing DR2

What do you do in terms of your system to maximize the experience when playing those games?

 

[SigmaMotion]

Love your DR2 Subaru Vid. Still trying to make a final decision on 2” vs 6”. Two questions:

1) What type of rig do you recommend for your 6” actuators which I presume is subject to much greater torque, torsion, etc.? What are the minimum and recommended setups? You specifically mentioned this in the vid, including health and safety. For example, does is need to be wider (left to right), to prevent tipping over?

2) does your environmental layer include angle of the car on the surface? For example, when going around a berm, or up on a hill in DR2?

Also, I like that you give an indication of sliding by stopping the road vibration layer. I don’t think My current d-box system does that.


Thanks

DR20 is my ultimate jump in and drive software. Often after a long day at work, its just easy to get going and/or continue an achievement and not have to wait for iRacing races and such. It's just easy and rewarding, and the motion is just fun. Our test rigs are also very simple. So 2-pedal Heusinkveld Sprints, SimuCube wheel, shifter, handbrake and a solid seat, one monitor and an i9+2080super. Not much more needed to have a good time and some of the stages are challenging. The motion really completes the experience though. Well obviously I would say that lol, but it really does. IMHO.

To answer your questions:

1) The DK6 motion won't be much different from that of DK2+ for road racing in the sense that:
a. they use the same motor (same torque)
b. The very active layers will remain in the 2" sweet spot but during saturation, motion will temporarily go beyond 2", to maintain the analog feel of motion or analog feel that a car really has. So we are choosing to give each layer more discreet use of its allocation of travel with greater limits. But the benefits of DK6 for road racing will be virtually no saturation of motion and 4" of stroke available for sustained road inclination/terrain and for future algorithms.

In summary DK6 pros:
-Virtually no saturation
-Driver offset location
-Sustained pitch & roll
-Super awesome flight heave ;-)
Structurally, we would not recommend anything different rig-wise for the DK6. Any motion rig should be as rigid and as light as budget allows. Accessories such as seat rails should be removed if possible as they often have a lot of flex and play. Safety-wise, we have built and used 6" systems on our test rigs for many years, and tipping has never been a concern.

Personally I like the extrusion from Vention which is what AllinOne Gaming uses with their chassis. Vention has these locators in the extruded aluminum that prevent the corner brackets from twisting. But again we've noticed negligible twisting or torsion in our chassis setup here. Even the ones that we build ourselves from overpriced McMaster.com.

2) Environment Layer:
Yes, the environment layer will capture any changes to pitch and roll which includes road angles, crests, steep hills, dips, off/on cambers and banks in titles like DR20. However, they will get washed out within 1 second which is acceptable, especially at speed.

"Also, I like that you give an indication of sliding by stopping the road vibration layer. I don’t think My current d-box system does that." That's interesting, really curious to how they plumbed that in the end. We don't do anything special for that, it just comes naturally through the suspension once the car is in full braking, fully pitched or loaded forwards and the tires are absorbing most of the small nuanced compressions when under load:

this was an interesting study of suspension, at different speeds, objects and/or brakes on or off. Validates many things that we feel with motion in games too!

Thanks for the great questions. Sorry for the essay-like reply. LOL

 

[SigmaMotion]

Another quick question. I saw your SW roadmap. What is the plan for supporting new versions of the big titles? For example F1. Do you automatically work on those, or do you wait for a request to support it? How much time does it normally take to implement support for a particular game? Thank you.

Great question:

So F1 2022 is currently working and releasing with our next software update. There is almost no effort in adding this title because F1 2021 uses the same plumbing to send us telemetry data. However we will add F1 2022 to the list of profiles so you can customize between the two titles and obviously still test things like the 3rd spring and so on.

So the short list that we have on our website is by request of existing or new clients. We have our own list and also a list from some of our OEM clients and sim centers. A typical title will take 5-7 days to add and maybe about the 2-3 days to test extensively. (its quite a process that we will eventually need to automate more). But before we release more titles we are always busy with core features, which take a lot of time unfortunately. For example Engine Vibration to more than 7-months of research testing and implementation and air-heave was another 3-months of time.

The DK motion system is almost there where the core features are complete and it all comes down to just adding games, applying patches and further improving on algorithms. The UI also still has to be improved. Should be automated, easy to use, robust and should not require too much tunning our of the gate or in-between titles.

Also some games take a lot longer to integrate too, but there are primarily 3-ways to create pipelines between games and peripherals: shared memory, UDP or custom LUA script (like in BeamNG). ;-) Even UDP protocol has some issues, as some stubborn software like to take and hold UDP values without relaying or forwarding them to other applications. We are working on this solution also. ;-)

 

[SigmaMotion]

Final question:
I recognize that some games have limited capabilities in terms of motion. I also think that we may see a slight reduction of developer attention for those games when their publishers are bought out by the big gaming companies focused on consoles. That said, games like dirt rally and F1 are hugely popular and very fun. I could not live without playing DR2

What do you do in terms of your system to maximize the experience when playing those games?

Potentially, although the big developers might buy out small devs, it is unlikely for those big devs to remove standard and more accepted output features like telemetry. There is also almost no cost to increase the telemetry output for PC and for PC there are always ways to sniff data and grab telemetry although its messy and often not persistent.

But I think its so relatively easy to build new titles. So I don't see big devs buying and managing titles like AC or BeamNG and their nuances. And any console optimization also opens revenue doors for new companies to come in. ACC is interesting in this regard because its focused on GT cars, has corporate sponsors, but offers such high motion fidelity. Other games like WRC10 however only export telemetry to dbox. Which is a strange way to alienate your customer, imho. Deplorables! LOL. Others like WreckFest use 3rd party plugins for motion but natively do not support telemetry output, the game is just not intended for that audience, at the moment. But I think as more and more peripherals and software options are released, the cost of additional data output will be worth the effort. Otherwise they can be ostracized from fun communities and immersive YouTube videos/views.

So we at the mercy of the game developer, the game developer is at mercy of volume sales and DLC's, which means being ultimately at the mercy of the satisfaction individual consumer.

So what do we do? Nothing we can do really, but we are always at the mercy of the consumer and their purchasing decisions. But like I said it would be social/financial suicide to natively exclude particular companies from a software system over others. The monopolizing of peripherals for particular titles also, in my opinion, eventuals leads to lower lower quality of output because not enough closed loop feedback can be given to the developer by the masses from both consumers and peripheral developers. We each benefit each other in some way. Those that do exclude some but not others, rarely survive long term and like I said above leave the door wide open for other devs to come in. Its an organic, or natural, self-regulating cycle.

 

[SigmaMotion]

Motors are relatively easy to control with a micro-controller like an Arduino. So why don't we use Arduinos for our motion system?

Point 1) Most servo systems use a position mode where the motion provider has no control of the velocity, acceleration & jerk. They simply send a position command and it's up to the servo drive to make the calculations, which are linear ramps between zero velocity and a constant velocity. This method of control results in robotic-like movements.

Point 2) Sigma has a different approach, we call it motion integrity. We only use servo motors that allow full control of the position, velocity, acceleration and jerk, all at the same time. This is because natural motion requires continuous and curved velocities, smooth acceleration and low jerk.

Point 3) The amount of processing required to achieve motion integrity is not possible with a hobby grade microcontroller like an Arduino. You need a real-time operating systems (RTOS) combined with multiple high performance microcontrollers to be able to command position, acceleration and jerk at the same time.

 

[SigmaMotion]

NEW SOFTWARE VERSION RELEASE 1.3.121.2 | July 15 2022

New game supports: F1 22, KartKraft

New features:

• Automatic servo alarm recovery to minimize interruption to a motion session
• Automatic power on when game telemetry starts
• Automatic power off when game telemetry stops
• Custom UDP ports for DiRT Rally 2.0, F1 2022, F2 22 and KartKraft
• Custom UDP ports allows the motion system to share UDP telemetry with other applications
• New global intensity slider with more added resolution for each slider

Fixed issue:

• Fixed iRacing F1 cars missing road vibrations motion layer

 

[vannib]

@SigmaMotion do you think using a dk6 system for racing simulators (road tracks) would have any disadvantages vs a dk2 system?

I only use racing simulators at the moment, but was considering a dk6 for potential future applications for flight / space sims.
Still, would never do it if the added travel somehow reduced the efficiency of what is and will remain my main use case (without doing price considerations obviously).

Thanks

 

[SigmaMotion]

@SigmaMotion do you think using a dk6 system for racing simulators (road tracks) would have any disadvantages vs a dk2 system?

I only use racing simulators at the moment, but was considering a dk6 for potential future applications for flight / space sims.
Still, would never do it if the added travel somehow reduced the efficiency of what is and will remain my main use case (without doing price considerations obviously).

Thanks

Hi @vannib ... great question. Compromises are inherent in all systems. Very smart to point this out. When experimenting a few years ago now, we quickly noticed that with other systems that more travel was not being used effectively by other systems. It was more there because its much harder to represent pitch, roll and heave layers in smaller amounts of travel collectively. And it took us months to effectively solve this issue. Once we did, we found 2" to be optimal for us and even considered doing 4" and 3" systems but found it not necessary once we optimized for 2".

As a test we even built 3" actuators with the open motion system and found it was not that effective. Each layer had a linear relationship and scaling, and so less travel meant less motion was represented. You could tune the systems for particular layers but then again you could never have pitch/roll/heave sharing the limited travel, which really helps with the DK2. So this is why I think you don't see 4" or less with other systems. I think. That's my assumption after playing with it.

Sorry for the long run on sentence/explanation but here is the crux of why I said that. The DK6 will have the benefits of DK2 optimization but will have more travel to further represent each motion layer. DK2 like any other system is optimized but can still 'saturate' with extreme motions, DK6 does not. This should be quite evident in all simulation experiences but will especially be noticeable in high travel vehicles and flight.

We are excited to eventually show those differences.

Hope that helps and just doesn't add more confusion. If anything we are always open to a call to discuss on the phone. You can get going down the rabbit whole quite quickly. Oh! and so there will be minimal difference between the DK2+ and DK6, because of the optimization, but the compromise is going to be cost, more money to make and more money to ship. (these things are like torpedoes!!! super solid. The DK6 steel pistons alone are so heavy, lol.)

Thanks again for the great question and happy weekend!

 

[NetLawMan]

Hi @vannib ... great question. Compromises are inherent in all systems. Very smart to point this out. When experimenting a few years ago now, we quickly noticed that with other systems that more travel was not being used effectively by other systems. It was more there because its much harder to represent pitch, roll and heave layers in smaller amounts of travel collectively. And it took us months to effectively solve this issue. Once we did, we found 2" to be optimal for us and even considered doing 4" and 3" systems but found it not necessary once we optimized for 2".

As a test we even built 3" actuators with the open motion system and found it was not that effective. Each layer had a linear relationship and scaling, and so less travel meant less motion was represented. You could tune the systems for particular layers but then again you could never have pitch/roll/heave sharing the limited travel, which really helps with the DK2. So this is why I think you don't see 4" or less with other systems. I think. That's my assumption after playing with it.

Sorry for the long run on sentence/explanation but here is the crux of why I said that. The DK6 will have the benefits of DK2 optimization but will have more travel to further represent each motion layer. DK2 like any other system is optimized but can still 'saturate' with extreme motions, DK6 does not. This should be quite evident in all simulation experiences but will especially be noticeable in high travel vehicles and flight.

We are excited to eventually show those differences.

Hope that helps and just doesn't add more confusion. If anything we are always open to a call to discuss on the phone. You can get going down the rabbit whole quite quickly. Oh! and so there will be minimal difference between the DK2+ and DK6, because of the optimization, but the compromise is going to be cost, more money to make and more money to ship. (these things are like torpedoes!!! super solid. The DK6 steel pistons alone are so heavy, lol.)

Thanks again for the great question and happy weekend!

Thanks for the explanation. For the DK6, what is the optimal distance between actuators (left to right and front to back)

 

[vannib]

Hi @vannib ... great question. Compromises are inherent in all systems. Very smart to point this out. When experimenting a few years ago now, we quickly noticed that with other systems that more travel was not being used effectively by other systems. It was more there because its much harder to represent pitch, roll and heave layers in smaller amounts of travel collectively. And it took us months to effectively solve this issue. Once we did, we found 2" to be optimal for us and even considered doing 4" and 3" systems but found it not necessary once we optimized for 2".

As a test we even built 3" actuators with the open motion system and found it was not that effective. Each layer had a linear relationship and scaling, and so less travel meant less motion was represented. You could tune the systems for particular layers but then again you could never have pitch/roll/heave sharing the limited travel, which really helps with the DK2. So this is why I think you don't see 4" or less with other systems. I think. That's my assumption after playing with it.

Sorry for the long run on sentence/explanation but here is the crux of why I said that. The DK6 will have the benefits of DK2 optimization but will have more travel to further represent each motion layer. DK2 like any other system is optimized but can still 'saturate' with extreme motions, DK6 does not. This should be quite evident in all simulation experiences but will especially be noticeable in high travel vehicles and flight.

We are excited to eventually show those differences.

Hope that helps and just doesn't add more confusion. If anything we are always open to a call to discuss on the phone. You can get going down the rabbit whole quite quickly. Oh! and so there will be minimal difference between the DK2+ and DK6, because of the optimization, but the compromise is going to be cost, more money to make and more money to ship. (these things are like torpedoes!!! super solid. The DK6 steel pistons alone are so heavy, lol.)

Thanks again for the great question and happy weekend!

Thanks a lot, extraordinarily deep explanation as always.

one thing: are you planning any form of VR compensation? With VR set to become more and more common, I would guess with added travel and potentially future traction loss implementation, that will become more relevant.

 

[SigmaMotion]

Thanks for the explanation. For the DK6, what is the optimal distance between actuators (left to right and front to back)

There is no optimal distance, or it is specified in the limitation of our software which currently is between 20 to 49". By putting in the length and width of the actuators on your chassis, we can then best optimize for the pitch and roll based on those values. We don't know how others do it, but its an important validator, otherwise you are just guessing...

 

[SigmaMotion]

Thanks a lot, extraordinarily deep explanation as always.

one thing: are you planning any form of VR compensation? With VR set to become more and more common, I would guess with added travel and potentially future traction loss implementation, that will become more relevant.

Yes. its in discussion and potentially in the works later this year. We would like to make this seamless and automated as well OR be able to detect a VR device and then just activate motion compensation. Would be a toggle like our new auto-power on/off and the auto-alarm reset we just launched. ;-)

 

[eLWOOD1776]

Awesome update to the software! I gave F1 22 a try and just couldn't bring myself to race without motion haha. Looking forward to trying it with motion, but I'm hooked on iracing right now. The laser scanning and track accuracy is crucial.

Tldr the DK2+ is amazing and everyone needs one

 

[SigmaMotion]

Awesome update to the software! I gave F1 22 a try and just couldn't bring myself to race without motion haha. Looking forward to trying it with motion, but I'm hooked on iracing right now. The laser scanning and track accuracy is crucial.

Tldr the DK2+ is amazing and everyone needs one

Awesome @eLWOOD1776 . Good to hear! I think that F1 '22 is definitely better than F1 2021... They definitely made some changes.... I think the more you play the two titles, the more you will appreciate iRacing with all its compromises.

And yes laser scanning is crucial as it negates the need for effects and most new computers have enough memory and speed to be able to handle that level of detail. In F1 '22 you can see some of the curbs are not modeled and just shake the wheel (an effect) to emulate something that is not there. Good for consoles for sure. But what I like about F1 '22 is how the SuperCars squat with breaking, so it a combined pitch and squat motion. Feels quite organic.

Did you try the Radical SR8 and Nurburgring combo yet? Our favorite and where we did most of our testing for DK2/2+. ;-)

 

[eLWOOD1776]

Did you try the Radical SR8 and Nurburgring combo yet? Our favorite and where we did most of our testing for DK2/2+. ;-)

I haven't driven the SR8 at all yet, but I have been branching out recently and trying new cars. The Radical SR10 is on my list, but I'll have to try the SR8 as well.

Rally is what originally got me hooked on sim racing, but then Drive to Survive really opened my eyes. I originally wanted to work my way through the Formula Vee > iR04 > F3 > FR3.5 > F1 progression, but I started to lose interest with the iR04. It's weird because I originally HATED the Formula Vee, but then absolutely fell in love with it as I started racing it. So after initially loving the iR04, I expected to fall more and more in love with it as I started racing it, but I just couldn't get into it.

This past weekend I had a quiet day all to myself and just wanted to race without needing to practice. I saw the Dallara P217 LMP2's at Lime Rock and figured I'd give it a shot. I never finished a lap in the P217 prior to this race, and I only had 5 minutes to figure it out before the race started. I didn't come in last or wreck anyone's race! Absolutely fell in love with that car/track combo and ended up trying IMSA right after that, which is AMAZING.

Also in regards to laser scanning, another thing is the fact that you can be confident that you're driving on a track that matches the real-world dimensions and layout, rather than something that's "close enough". I noticed it as soon as I hit turn 1 at Silverstone in F1 22.

(Screenshots from youtube)

In iRacing, the exit of turn 1 is slightly uphill, but you barely notice the incline:



In F1 22, there is an actual hill, notice how you can't see turn 2 or the pit exit over the hill (even though this perspective is higher up, which should HELP see over the hill):



Real life comparison:



Idk if I'm just extremely picky, but that kind of stuff drives me insane...especially after spending an hour+ trying to set the game up (because they don't officially support any hardware above Fanatec).

 

[SigmaMotion]

I haven't driven the SR8 at all yet, but I have been branching out recently and trying new cars. The Radical SR10 is on my list, but I'll have to try the SR8 as well.

Rally is what originally got me hooked on sim racing, but then Drive to Survive really opened my eyes. I originally wanted to work my way through the Formula Vee > iR04 > F3 > FR3.5 > F1 progression, but I started to lose interest with the iR04. It's weird because I originally HATED the Formula Vee, but then absolutely fell in love with it as I started racing it. So after initially loving the iR04, I expected to fall more and more in love with it as I started racing it, but I just couldn't get into it.

This past weekend I had a quiet day all to myself and just wanted to race without needing to practice. I saw the Dallara P217 LMP2's at Lime Rock and figured I'd give it a shot. I never finished a lap in the P217 prior to this race, and I only had 5 minutes to figure it out before the race started. I didn't come in last or wreck anyone's race! Absolutely fell in love with that car/track combo and ended up trying IMSA right after that, which is AMAZING.

Also in regards to laser scanning, another thing is the fact that you can be confident that you're driving on a track that matches the real-world dimensions and layout, rather than something that's "close enough". I noticed it as soon as I hit turn 1 at Silverstone in F1 22.

(Screenshots from youtube)

In iRacing, the exit of turn 1 is slightly uphill, but you barely notice the incline:
View attachment 584538
View attachment 584541

In F1 22, there is an actual hill, notice how you can't see turn 2 or the pit exit over the hill (even though this perspective is higher up, which should HELP see over the hill):
View attachment 584539
View attachment 584540

Real life comparison:
View attachment 584542
View attachment 584543

Idk if I'm just extremely picky, but that kind of stuff drives me insane...especially after spending an hour+ trying to set the game up (because they don't officially support any hardware above Fanatec).

Interesting comparison but would be great to have it form the perspective of the driver with the same FOV for all the comparisons which is hard I think. In iRacing image above you are in the cockpit and in the other images you are above the cockpit and looks like a different POV. Interesting indeed but hard to judge. The feel of it should come through our Environment layer though! ;-)

There are so many disciplines in racing, we are really spoiled.