D -Box 4250i G3 VS Next Level Traction Plus and V3

[NetLawMan]

I hijacked nothing, the topic was already part of the thread by different people contributing and even in your own original post in this thread here is part to what you said....



Oh my goodness, look you are referring to tactile being combined with motion, saying it adds a huge amount to the experience. Yet several motion solutions now have or seek to improve the haptic options they offer.

So can you eventually answer the questions put to you regards how a dbox systems haptics handles engines for various cars or changes the sensation of idle or other engine sensations in relation to the car being driven.

Can you show us what makes dbox unique and the controls or how/what you can change its output/sensation timing or frequencies?

Wow. The fact that you wrote this shows how disconnected you are. The whole point is that when all you have is transducers, then of course perfection is desirable. When you have motion, transducers are an optional part of the equation (and the level of it’s added value is personal)

Dude……move on…… start a combo thread….it will probably generate a lot of valuable discussion.

But in the meantime. How about some peace for the motion threads. No hijacking….No subliminal infomercials. You still haven’t clearly spelled out your involvement…just a lot of rambling and beating around the bush to the question asked about your involvement (even when I made it an easy Yes/No question).

At this point not even asking for that if you can leave motion threads in peace.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Honnestly I haev never really used the haptics from the d-box, so I can't give too good of a feedback. I feel the virabtion to be un-natural.

Because...
- By the time the haptic can be felt it is quite noisy
- Vibration at that level are too high in the steering wheel, not like a real car.
- They are pretty basic haptics, like a single frequency all over the chassis.
- D-Box doesn't emulate ABS pulsing for exemple. It is pretty basic RPMs.

So I'd say while there is haptics and it is fun when you get started, it is not something I feel is refined enough to be very interesting.

I bet d-box could improve the haptics if they wanted but at this stage I feel Simhub is more detailled.

I used to have the Sim3D virbation system for my Heusinkveld sprint and I thought it was great in terms of localisation of the vibration and also the control allowed by simhub

Personally I would prefer to have the least amount of setup work to do.

So a good system would be something where the community/vendor could 'build' good preset for each car and share them. I mean even for Simucube steering, we saw how hard it is to dial them right and in the end the online profile sharing is the way to solve the complexity when you don't have the time to create your own setup.

I am disapointed that Simtag is selling the racebass but not any full kit coming with it.

I have build my sim chassis over time and I know how many small parts you need to make it happen.. I mean that is why SimLab is so successful.. they just offer a full kit. which is great to start.

Hope it help

PS: I feel it is great for some member to be able to monetize their research. Especially if they also give it away for free for people who want to DIY if they choose to. Most of us value our time and are ready to pay for the service. But I remember the days when I was 15 years old and free/hacked software was the only way

I know someone else who had a similar experience.

In his case the D-Box haptic feedback was also causing major noise coming through the floor which bothered his wife. He setup a separate tactile system which allowed him to isolate the vibrations coming through the floor so his wife is happy now, and he like his tactile effects better.

 

[Mr Latte]

Wow. The fact that you wrote this shows how disconnected you are. The whole point is that when all you have is transducers, then of course perfection is desirable. When you have motion, transducers are an optional part of the equation (and the level of it’s added value is personal)

Dude……move on…… start a combo thread….it will probably generate a lot of valuable discussion.

But in the meantime. How about some peace for the motion threads. No hijacking….No subliminal infomercials. You still haven’t clearly spelled out your involvement…just a lot of rambling and beating around the bush to the question asked about your involvement (even when I made it an easy Yes/No question).

At this point not even asking for that if you can leave motion threads in peace.

Would have preferred you simply talked about dbox from your perspective as an owner and highlighted why it, or what it offers over other motion systems regards their haptic options and how well dbox performs or improves over those.

The reality is other brands are now doing various tactile/haptics also but nowhere have I seen a detailed comparison.

For sure and while dbox has its own advantages as a brand and in build quality it is possible someone can buy an alternative motion system also with some haptics and with the price difference decide (if they want) to add other tactile onto their haptics or blend both.

That is a relevant scenario but each time you are asked about dbox haptics you actually ignore the questions .

 

[NetLawMan]

I know someone else who had a similar experience.

In his case the D-Box haptic feedback was also causing major noise coming through the floor which bothered his wife. He setup a separate tactile system which allowed him to isolate the vibrations coming through the floor so his wife is happy now, and he like his tactile effects better.

Totally makes sense. Different people have to take into account their circumstances. I would say that vibrating against the floor (which is what the dbox system does), is not compatible with certain living styles (wooden floor, apartments).

To be clear though, that is a question of circumstance compatibility as opposed to quality.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Totally makes sense. Different people have to take into account their circumstances. I would say that vibrating against the floor (which is what the dbox system does), is not compatible with certain living styles (wooden floor, apartments).

To be clear though, that is a question of circumstance compatibility as opposed to quality.

Since you are making a comparative comment regarding tactile quality, I'll simply state that he likes the tactile effects he is getting now better than what the D-Box haptic can deliver as well. If you want more details I'll invite him to express his opinions here.

He did a beautiful job with the build. Very clean wiring and routing. I was impressed.

 

[NetLawMan]

Since you are making a comparative comment regarding tactile quality, I'll simply state that he likes the tactile effects he is getting now better than what the D-Box haptic can deliver as well. If you want more details I'll invite him to express his opinions here.

He did a beautiful job with the build. Very clean wiring and routing. I was impressed.

Actually, I didn’t make any such comment. What I said was that dbox haptics work by vibrating the actuators as pressed against the floor, which is different from transducers that vibrate themselves relative to the rig (allowing the rig to be isolated from the floor to reduce the vibration transmitted to the floor). That has nothing to do with comparing quality. It has to do with whether a given technology is compatible with one’s particular living situation.

As I have said, comparing haptics to haptics is nothing more than a red herring. You have to compare experience to experience, wholisticlly. But that was not the intent of this thread.

If proving, in your humble opinion, that haptics is the be-all-end-all, why not spin up a “vs” thread. I am happy to have a constructive discussion there, without further ruining this and other motion focused threads.

BTW - it’s a pretty weak case to continue to argue based on what you heard from someone else rather than your own long term experience using both systems.

 

[RCHeliguy]

BTW - it’s a pretty weak case to continue to argue based on what you heard from someone else rather than your own long term experience using both systems.

As is claiming all your vibration should originate from 4 corners like you have done without experiencing what some of us are talking about. You make a very weak case as well.

 

[NetLawMan]

As is claiming all your vibration should originate from 4 corners like you have done without experiencing what some of us are talking about. You make a very weak case as well.

Huh???? A little out of left field LOL. Nevermind. It’s clear you can’t let go. Lots and lots of laughs……

 

[pihops]

lol guys.... I guess some really want to think D-Box is the end all solution and I hope I have time someday to add racebass to my d-box rig to show tell about improvemetns. but honestly the d-box haptic is RPM ONLY ... may be some road texture but not that much. it is MISSING many of the effects AVAILABLE in simhub

 

[RCHeliguy]

Huh???? A little out of left field LOL. Nevermind. It’s clear you can’t let go. Lots and lots of laughs……

Pot calling the kettle black, huh?

 

[Mr Latte]

So then, can anyone with a dbox at some point link or make a video that covers its own haptics options and software. Showing the settings etc too.

Even Barry Rowland never covered it much in his review that I remember.

It would be nice to have an indication to what effects it offers,
If the same effects are available for all sims or if that differs based on the sims
How does this relate to other motion platforms also
I know its tuning is limited but how limited

I still cant get a simple answer regards engines and how or in what ways those differ if you are driving, different cars or even how an F1 car differs to a GT car or with games like forza with hundreds of cars.

Surely however the dbox haptics are at least very good for suspension/bumps due to the energy they can generate.

Yet something I would like confirmed is if all its haptic effects work in 4 way mono (same to each unit) or for things like suspension/bumps apply diagonal opposites (eg: front right/rear left).

Edit:
Just seen the new thread created

 

[Beef36]

That is a lot of 160mm profile. I wonder how much Sébastien Loeb's JCL 6-actuator D-Box rig weighs?

 

[Acextreme]

Hi, for those that had experience with the D-Box 4250i 1.5" actuators, are they 1.5" up and 1.5" down from center position for a total of 3" travel end to end or just 0.75" up and 0.75" down for a total of 1.5" travel end to end?

 

[NetLawMan]

Hi, for those that had experience with the D-Box 4250i 1.5" actuators, are they 1.5" up and 1.5" down from center position for a total of 3" travel end to end or just 0.75" up and 0.75" down for a total of 1.5" travel end to end?

I would suggest you check out some threads, like the Sigma Integrale motion thread, to better understand how travel is used in motion systems. While the answer to your question is 1.5”, your question itself won’t help you to make a good motion system choice.

 

[John Bruno]

I would suggest you check out some threads, like the Sigma Integrale motion thread, to better understand how travel is used in motion systems. While the answer to your question is 1.5”, your question itself won’t help you to make a good motion system choice.

Directly from a re-seller based in Quebec...
This is in reference to the Gen 5, it may be completely different for refurbished Gen 1 systems.

"The full travel range is 1.5.

It may mot seem like much, but it is plenty to give professional drivers everywhere the feedback they need to train.

You have to imagine a race car suspension in that sense… If it’s moving more than 1.5” you’ll probably end up upside down

Let me know if you have anymore questions.

Thanks!

_________________________________________________________


The Advanced SimRacing Support Team
10301 Boul. Ray Lawson
Anjou, QC H1J 1L6
Canada

 

[NetLawMan]

Directly from a re-seller based in Quebec...
This is in reference to the Gen 5, it may be completely different for refurbished Gen 1 systems.

"The full travel range is 1.5.

It may mot seem like much, but it is plenty to give professional drivers everywhere the feedback they need to train.

You have to imagine a race car suspension in that sense… If it’s moving more than 1.5” you’ll probably end up upside down

Let me know if you have anymore questions.

Thanks!

_________________________________________________________


The Advanced SimRacing Support Team
10301 Boul. Ray Lawson
Anjou, QC H1J 1L6
Canada

Yes. I bought my d-box system from them. Great guys. The point is that buying a bigger travel system may not get you more travel in game. There are variables, including the algorithms used by the motion system SW maker, the game, as well as the Genre being driven. Its not just a question of half up and half down.

 

[John Bruno]

Yes. I bought my d-box system from them. Great guys. The point is that buying a bigger travel system may not get you more travel in game. There are variables, including the algorithms used by the motion system SW maker, the game, as well as the Genre being driven. Its not just a question of half up and half down.

Been contemplating PT-A and D-Box for quite some time and I realize there are multiple threads about this topic. My only real hesitancy in pulling the trigger on the D-Box is the total travel of 1.5inch in Dirt Ralley series and the lack of a traction loss system. I know their software can really help create the sensations and in circuit racing, it's not really an issue. However i've heard from others with PT-A that surge is not necessary where as the TL is a an absolute must.
Can you share any opinions on the 1.5inch and no TL when it comes to Rallying?

 

[OlaGB]

Can you share any opinions on the 1.5inch and no TL when it comes to Rallying?

I run a 2’’ DK2 system, and do some rally as well as roadrace..
If you want to have crazy heave, and be thrown high and low, i think you need the long travel systems.
But i think most people learn quickly that you dont need alot of travel to feel the car jumping and landing, as long as it gets replicated fast and correct..

I for sure dont need more than my system gives me. I even run below medium settings.

As Netlawman say, theres alot more to it, in algoritms / programming..

 

[NetLawMan]

Been contemplating PT-A and D-Box for quite some time and I realize there are multiple threads about this topic. My only real hesitancy in pulling the trigger on the D-Box is the total travel of 1.5inch in Dirt Ralley series and the lack of a traction loss system. I know their software can really help create the sensations and in circuit racing, it's not really an issue. However i've heard from others with PT-A that surge is not necessary where as the TL is a an absolute must.
Can you share any opinions on the 1.5inch and no TL when it comes to Rallying?

I have been fine without TL. I play DR 2 a lot and it is a blast. I admit that I have looked at buying a six inch system but have not for various reasons (like the complexity of the screen placement relative to the rig, the rigidity of the rig, and concerns about whether the increase in experience is worth the cost and effort).

I would encourage you to read through the Sigma Intragrale vendor thread. You will be well armed after that to make a decision.

I also put Dbox and the sigma DK2 systems in another level than PT and other systems that rely on 3rd party software.

 

[NetLawMan]

Been contemplating PT-A and D-Box for quite some time and I realize there are multiple threads about this topic. My only real hesitancy in pulling the trigger on the D-Box is the total travel of 1.5inch in Dirt Ralley series and the lack of a traction loss system. I know their software can really help create the sensations and in circuit racing, it's not really an issue. However i've heard from others with PT-A that surge is not necessary where as the TL is a an absolute must.
Can you share any opinions on the 1.5inch and no TL when it comes to Rallying?

BTW, I believe that dbox has TL (or sway) in the SW. it is just rarely sold, at least here in the US.