Building rig thread without having any experience

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by RobertR1, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    Hopefully in the future, this can serve as a reference point for others who want to get into the hobby but not really good with their hands.

    As I'm not very mechanically inclined or good with tinkering, I'm hopeful that I can use this thread to get experience from the community to help me setup and optimize the kit.

    I'll also use this thread to post my impressions along the way so people can reference it when making decisions.

    My current setup:
    i2600k @ 4.8ghz with 16GB RAM and 980ti @ 1500/8000
    Rift with Assetto Corsa running 1.5 super sampling using Oculus Tray Tool
    Logitech G29 wheel/pedal combo

    Limitations of the logitech:
    Compared to real life track driving and due to the wear and tear on the current borrowed set, the force feedback mechanisms of the wheel are very hit n miss regardless of the settings. I rely more on visual queues and audio than the FFB of the wheel to make a decision. Even without that limitation, the pedals leave a lot to be desired. The accelerator is difficult to modulate and brake feedback, esp when trail braking is challenging. This isn't much of an issue with low HP, high momentum cars such as the MX5 Club (Miata for non communists) so driving these and focusing on your line and corner speed is still doable and very exciting. However, as you move up in the HP and performance curve, the throttle sensitivity and braking finesse start to play a bigger role thus something a bit more high end might fit the bill. Disclaimer: You can get used to anything but if you got used to a logitech like setup and then tried to transfer that to a real car at pace, you'd have a lot of unlearn.

    Pedals. My first purchase:
    After much research, I went with the Heusinkveld Ultimate Pedals https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pedals-ultimate/?v=79cba1185463 My reasoning over the Pro pedals was the hydraulic mechanism which is similar to how real brakes operate. After having learned painfully in the past from many different hobbies, when possible, get the best you can at the time given your budget and wants. Why? because you'll often end up there anyhow but have spent more along the way and not enjoyed it from day 1. I'll post a detailed review once I receive them and compare my laptimes and consistency against the Logitech setup so there's a real reference point.
     
  2. Kenny Paton

    Kenny Paton
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    I've taken the liberty of renaming your thread to make its purpose clearer.
     
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  3. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    What's the most compact rig I can buy that will support a direct drive wheel and HE pedals without flex? The P1 rig looks great but it's quite big in terms of dimensions.

    I would like the option down the road to add motion whether a seat mover or a d-box like setup.
     
  4. Mascot

    Mascot
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    I've got a P1 and wouldn't say it's big. It's sized to perform ergonomically and structurally, and does both superbly.
    And if you want to add a seat mover (like I did) or D-Box later on then the P1 is ideal. It's the last cockpit you should ever need to buy.
     
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  5. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    I'll need to do some maths and measuring this weekend. I"m trying to set it up in a way where I can still use the PC for normal PC functions and not just give it up for the sim rig.

    Looks like with the P1, I'll need to buy the following accessories:
    - butt kicker mount
    - Sliding seat mount (so others can try it also)
    - Bucket seat mounts
    - Cable management?
    - I don't plan on getting a clutch and shifter for a bit so no need for those accessories

    With the HE ultimates:
    I don't need the base plate right? Just the heel plate.

    Anything else I'm missing?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  6. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez

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    You don't even need the heel plate they provide. You can order without it (saves shipping cost too as it's very heavy) and just get some checker plate from the local hardware store. That's what I did. HE wanted 70 euro's plus shipping and my heel plate cost me less than half that, with no shipping as I got it local. The pedals can mount directly to the 80 20 and you can span the profile exactly where you need it to match the pedal slots. Cable management is easy on 80 20 you can just use some tape or cable ties, or get the little clips like I did from SimLab and use those. I only used a couple, I got 10 delivered. Buttkicker mount is recommended but not essential as you have so many places to mount one on the profile. They are not expensive anyway. Not sure how bucket seat mount AND slider will work, but again with the 80 20 the slider is not essential as you have adjustment in your seat frame, as well as pedals and your wheel deck. I feel my rig is better off without a slider. But no one else uses it so it's not an issue for me.
     
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  7. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    Thanks Anton!

    HE (Svend) actually recommended that I not get the heel plate so that's nice of him. Good call on the checker plate from a local hardware shop. With direct mount on the rig, it should be pretty straight forward and sturdy.

    If the rig itself is that adjustable, then I'll skip the seat slider and go with just the bucket seat mount. I have a sparco evo II from my track car which should work nicely. I was planning to get 5-6 cable management guides with it. The rest can be handled by cable ties of which I have plenty.

    While I have you here, did you get the front wheel mount for the OSW and are there any gotcha's getting the OSW to mount nicely on the P1 (your GT1 should be similar in that regard, I'd imagine)?

    I'm trying to see how I can get away without needing a monitor mount as I plan to have my PC desk next to the rig thus in theory, the rig should be barebones with just on OSW wheel setup, 2 HE pedals, rift sensors and 2 buttkickers (pedals and seat). Motion will be a next year thing.
     
  8. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez

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    I actually had a CSW v2.5 when I ordered the GT1, which had the DSD button boxes attached to it. I didn't go for the front mount, because I would have lost the ability to mount them. In the end, while it was making it's way to me (GT1 chassis that is) I decided to test my marriage by ordering the rest of the kit. Marriage still great, sim racing now even better :) So I ended up getting the wheel deck mount as opposed to the front mount which turned out a little backwards as now I still can't attach the button boxes as intended with the CSW. However, since there is space around the wheel base, I've been able to attach them to the monitor mount and wheel deck uprights with some modification. So it all worked out in the end for me.

    The wheel deck is more than sufficient for DD forces. I've never felt any flex whatsoever with it. I think that the front mount is probably cleaner but it does pigeon hole you a little bit with the plate going all the way across the chassis. Check my build log for final pics of the setup. I will need to update that too, with my impressions of all the new gear as well as the chassis now that I've had it for some months.

    On the seat adjustment, let me be clear. The slider will be the easiest method to move the seat. No question. But, as I said, depending on the seat mounts you use for the bucket, I am not sure if they will work together. My Next Level seat had a frame that the slider attached to. It's not a great guide on how a proper race seat would work, and I've only used one other (the Bride replica I am now using). For my current one I did not need bucket mounts. But in my opinion, if you're to go motion, I would eliminate the slider. Just from my experience. I can't imagine you'd need to move it a whole lot. Generally it's the legs that are the issue and for this, just kicking the pedal mount out 6" or so should fit anyone taller in you're rig comfortably. That's the beauty of the SimLab (and I'd say other 80/20 chassis') is that the pedal mount is very adaptable.
     
  9. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    It begins! :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Furnace Inferno

    Furnace Inferno

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    I have the seat sliders on my P1 build and bucket seat, I find it quite useful just for getting in and out of the rig. Sim-Lab use the Sparco ones used in actual cars so it’s not like the el-cheapo ones on mass produced rigs which wiggle around a bit, it locks in as rigid as of it was bolted directly to the frame.

    If you want a narrower rig but longer then the Heusinkveld rig could be an option but it costs more and comes with monitor mounts. However the NLMV3 wouldn’t fit inside it so you’d be locked in to the very expensive D-Box for motion.
     
  11. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    For the 2nd component of my setup, I went with a direct drive wheel, specifically the Mige20nm setup from https://www.simracingbay.com/product/simucube-based-osw-kit-sincos-with-cm110-case/ I'll try to describe my reasons for each piece:

    - Mige20nm motor. I went with 20 over the 30 due to the feedback of the 20nm setup being smoother and faster than the 30nm. I don't anticipate running out of headroom on the 20nm setup so the extra headroom for something I won't use didn't make a whole of lot of sense to me. The price different was trivial so that was not a factor
    - PSU: The 480w has plenty of headroom. Having built my own PC's for decades, I'm confident on PSU and wattage needs so bigger can often just mean wasteful
    - Case: I went with the CM110 case over the Acrylic due to it's dust filter and more durability. With 3 kids under 4 and a long hair cat, these are real concerns!
    - Cables: Went with the fully shielded cables to avoid any EMI concerns. The HE pedals will be grounded to really minimize EMI effects

    I did a lot of research and put real thought into why OSW and not the other competitors. I'll try to summarize my thoughts for other people who might be in similar situation:

    - Accuforce V2: The price when shipped to UK wasn't that much less and while the software is more mature, the motor quality is lower. I expect the software to keep improving on the OSW kits but HW will be hard limitation and this is where the Accuforce falls behind with no way to make up the gap
    - Simsteering Leo Bodnar: Just too expensive and based on SimRacingGarage/Barry's feedback on the Biss-C encoder being a notable jump in smoothness over the older Sincos made this decision a lot easier
    - Fanatec Podium series: This was the most difficult because of the appeal of a unit backed by a large manufacturer was difficult to shed. Ultimately, I didn't see a scenario in which Fanatec would be able to do something so revolutionary that it would not only perform notably better than the OSW but also come in at a competitive price. It's also important to remember that this will be Fanatec 1st gen direct drive wheel while the OSW setup has matured nicely over the years. If anything, the risk sits with the Fanatec when it comes to reliability and teething issue of a Gen 1 product

    Finally, I want to point out something that's business related. In this hobby where you have small manufacturers selling expensive gear, customer service has to be a top priority. I don't have the time to chase people down for answers or worse, get short, unrelated answers that give the appearance of a response. Each of the suppliers I bought from have had not only great response times but took the time to actually read or listen to what I was asking of them. I expect that trend to continue regardless of price or geographical convenience.

    So that's pedals and wheel down!

    On a very sad note, my HE's can't be mounted to the stand I have currently borrowed so I have some nice looking paper weights. Good stuff.
     
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  12. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    Final pieces en-route!

    Rig: https://sim-lab.eu/product/p1-chassis/ Ordered it with the heel plate and the front mount along with cable management clips. When doing research on rigs, it's really hard to look at anything else. At this point in time, the P1 seems notably ahead of anything else out in the market.

    Wheel: https://sim-lab.eu/product/steering-wheel-src-gt-1/ I'd originally found the wheel on www.simracingcoach.com through a good recommendation. For me, I'm not a "wheel collector" so finding one wheel that I can directly attach to the Mige motor was the ideal scenario. Being a VR users, LED's and screens had no relevance BUT I needed a usable set of buttons as reaching for a kb/mouse isn't an option in VR. The rotary dials will be perfect for any combination of brake balance/TC/SC while the push buttons can serve as any number of functions. The magnetic shifters and the overall quality from reading non sponsored reviews were great.

    Hope it's as nice in person as in the pics!
    [​IMG]

    Now I'll wait for all the pieces to arrive and we'll do the build in the office with the team.
     
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  13. Goes To 11

    Goes To 11

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    I'm not sure what you mean by this. In some ways the GT1 looks better from Sim Lab. According to the Sim Racing garage, the JCL rig is quite good. 4play racing rigs don't look as good but are stable and quite a bit cheaper especially in North America. The P1 is very nice but I don't think that "notably ahead of anything else out in the market" is an accurate statement.
     
  14. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    I chose the P1 due to the it's thicker profile over the GT1. Basically, chassis rigidity as the HE Ultimate pedals will put some fair amount of load on it along with the 20nm motor. As I evolve and add motion down the road, I want something doesn't flex under load and dampens the feedback. The GT1 might serve that purpose just as well but for a modest amount more, the bump to me was worth it.

    The JCL doesn't have a front mount for the motor which I think is a more elegant solution given the price range they both play at.

    The 4play to me is more inline with the GT1 but I couldn't find much about the manufacturer and as I pointed out earlier in the thread, customer service was a major factor for me. There would also be the risk of int. shipping (UK) and potential customer concerns.

    The rig is the cheapest component of the build (aside the wheel) so I wanted something that had a great reputation and I wouldn't have to think about it for many years. Like a PC case, it's not a component I expect to replace for a very long time.

    Ultimately, everyone will have their own selection criteria and perspective.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  15. Goes To 11

    Goes To 11

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    I wasn't suggesting that you made the wrong choice, just that your statement that the P1 is "notably ahead of anything else out in the market" isn't really accurate. There are several good options with their different advantages and disavantages.
     
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  16. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    All my parts have arrived (P1 chassis and SRC GT1 wheel) ! and i have no idea what to do! this should end well....
     
  17. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez

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    Lack of instructions / schematics are always fun..............

    Jump onto the website, there are some simple drawings you can download. Even better, I used the actual photos of the completed builds in the product page to compare what went where. You will find that once you get the unique pieces sorted and out of the way, it tends to explain itself where everything goes.
     
  18. RobertR1

    RobertR1
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    Thanks Anton. Me and the boys at work made it a fun project and Barry and the schematics were our guiding light. All is done except we're a bit screwed on the wheel meaning I actually can't use the rig! I was hoping to direct mount the wheel to OSW but 2 things came up:

    It's a SRB OSW setup btw. The little black cover isn't thick enough to cover the screws. Why even have that there? The backplate of my button box touches the screws before it touches the black back plate. This means the stress and the pressure on the wheel will have a reduced surface area to dissipate over since the black cover isn't making contact. Should I use some washers to push out the black piece?

    Second, the screws that I got with the wheel: https://www.simracingcoach.com/en/contenido/volante-gt1/ aren't long enough go through the back of 6 holes metal piece so they can tightened up. Any suggestions?
     
  19. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez

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    Hey mate,

    Yes you are correct with the black plate, it's very weird. I did what you suggested and packed it out slightly with some washers. This gave me the tight snug fit required and has felt fine for me for the time I have been using it (nearly 2 months). I am not sure what the go is with it, maybe there are other solutions that use different quick release products that this doesn't happen to but I do remember it happening with me. It basically was going to rattle around in there if I left it as it was out of the box. I think Barry left his off completely when he reviewed the SRB OSW on his channel, if I remember correctly. I have the Fanatec QR on mine and I needed the washers. Pretty sure I used my own.

    I do not recall having to use separate screws/bolts, however. The ones that came with mine were fine to mount the Fanatec QR and the metal spacer plate. I was worried like you that the washers would not provide adequate bite between shaft and wheel mount/QR but that worry went away when I actually started driving with it. I'd actually forgotten that they're in there until you mentioned it.

    I don't have experience with mounting a rim directly to the shaft without a QR so unfortunately I'd only be guessing on what to do. Maybe some pics would help? I've had to mock up some home made attachments and mounts on my GT1 among other things so maybe we can bump heads and come up with something together?
     
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  20. daikichikun

    daikichikun

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    I am also interested in 8020 rig since my current rig cannot hold the strong toque of the DD wheel. A lot of flex when driving hard and the flex also kills the fidelity of the wheel..I notice that most of the people consider P1 / GT1 from SimLab but seldom talk about JCL V2....wondering if any one using JCL or owned before, interest to hear the difference between the two since they are so similar..

    Talking about the pedal, I am not sure if I am a strange guy or not....again, when most of the high end racers use HE pro / ultimate, I just decided to go with HPP....I have no complaint about my pedal performance but similar to the case of P1 vs JCL V2.....not many people consider HPP when come to a decision between HE and HPP....it would be fun to know why...
     
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