Building rig thread without having any experience

[RobertR1]

Hopefully in the future, this can serve as a reference point for others who want to get into the hobby but not really good with their hands.

As I'm not very mechanically inclined or good with tinkering, I'm hopeful that I can use this thread to get experience from the community to help me setup and optimize the kit.

I'll also use this thread to post my impressions along the way so people can reference it when making decisions.

My current setup:
i2600k @ 4.8ghz with 16GB RAM and 980ti @ 1500/8000
Rift with Assetto Corsa running 1.5 super sampling using Oculus Tray Tool
Logitech G29 wheel/pedal combo

Limitations of the logitech:
Compared to real life track driving and due to the wear and tear on the current borrowed set, the force feedback mechanisms of the wheel are very hit n miss regardless of the settings. I rely more on visual queues and audio than the FFB of the wheel to make a decision. Even without that limitation, the pedals leave a lot to be desired. The accelerator is difficult to modulate and brake feedback, esp when trail braking is challenging. This isn't much of an issue with low HP, high momentum cars such as the MX5 Club (Miata for non communists) so driving these and focusing on your line and corner speed is still doable and very exciting. However, as you move up in the HP and performance curve, the throttle sensitivity and braking finesse start to play a bigger role thus something a bit more high end might fit the bill. Disclaimer: You can get used to anything but if you got used to a logitech like setup and then tried to transfer that to a real car at pace, you'd have a lot of unlearn.

Pedals. My first purchase:
After much research, I went with the Heusinkveld Ultimate Pedals https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pedals-ultimate/?v=79cba1185463 My reasoning over the Pro pedals was the hydraulic mechanism which is similar to how real brakes operate. After having learned painfully in the past from many different hobbies, when possible, get the best you can at the time given your budget and wants. Why? because you'll often end up there anyhow but have spent more along the way and not enjoyed it from day 1. I'll post a detailed review once I receive them and compare my laptimes and consistency against the Logitech setup so there's a real reference point.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I am also interested in 8020 rig since my current rig cannot hold the strong toque of the DD wheel. A lot of flex when driving hard and the flex also kills the fidelity of the wheel..I notice that most of the people consider P1 / GT1 from SimLab but seldom talk about JCL V2....wondering if any one using JCL or owned before, interest to hear the difference between the two since they are so similar..

Talking about the pedal, I am not sure if I am a strange guy or not....again, when most of the high end racers use HE pro / ultimate, I just decided to go with HPP....I have no complaint about my pedal performance but similar to the case of P1 vs JCL V2.....not many people consider HPP when come to a decision between HE and HPP....it would be fun to know why...

I believe it’s just because most people on here are Euro centric so it’s just a lot cheaper and easier to deal with any issues.

Aluminium extrusion is all the same, the real difference is Sim-Lab have their custom mounting brackets for different things rather than just more extrusion and corner brackets which makes it look a lot neater IMO.

Pedal wise HPP don’t have anything comparable in price to HE Pro’s so unless you’re in the market for Ultimates most people won’t consider them, they do look nice though.

 

[RobertR1]

HPP was my initial choice but the lead times and the main reason that I couldn’t pay via PayPal made it difficult being in the UK so I went with HE ults.

 

[RobertR1]

Hey mate,

Yes you are correct with the black plate, it's very weird. I did what you suggested and packed it out slightly with some washers. This gave me the tight snug fit required and has felt fine for me for the time I have been using it (nearly 2 months). I am not sure what the go is with it, maybe there are other solutions that use different quick release products that this doesn't happen to but I do remember it happening with me. It basically was going to rattle around in there if I left it as it was out of the box. I think Barry left his off completely when he reviewed the SRB OSW on his channel, if I remember correctly. I have the Fanatec QR on mine and I needed the washers. Pretty sure I used my own.

I do not recall having to use separate screws/bolts, however. The ones that came with mine were fine to mount the Fanatec QR and the metal spacer plate. I was worried like you that the washers would not provide adequate bite between shaft and wheel mount/QR but that worry went away when I actually started driving with it. I'd actually forgotten that they're in there until you mentioned it.

I don't have experience with mounting a rim directly to the shaft without a QR so unfortunately I'd only be guessing on what to do. Maybe some pics would help? I've had to mock up some home made attachments and mounts on my GT1 among other things so maybe we can bump heads and come up with something together?

Black piece mystery solved:

I ordered one of these which should give me a shallower distance for the wheel screws. Ideally, I'll try to get longer screws so I can mount directly. https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/b-g-racing-alloy-steering-wheel-spacers-6-bolt-990633/ but this will have to do in the meantime.

 

[anton_Chez]

I think the HPP are very well regarded as well, from what I know. They look like a similar high end product to the HE range. I guess it depends on what people have been recommended and also the location that they are in. They may be able to source parts locally which doesn't really help price all that much but does help with the import duties and taxes faced when dealing with expensive items outside of your country. Obviously sim racing falls into this catagory as many manufactures are far away from people especially for me being in Australia, New Zealand, etc.

The JCL rig that I've seen reviewed by Barry at Sim Racing Garage does seem very similar to the SimLab varieties. Again, personal preference I guess and the fact that you really only need to order one means that no one is going to be able to try each one before making a decision.

I think HE gear is very widely used by people on these forums and as such, is in the front of peoples minds when making a decision to enter the high end.

 

[daikichikun]

Guys, thanks a lot for the discussion, yea..I totally forgot that most people here are from Europe, so take the logistics cost into consideration, definitely Sim Lab have the competitive advantage...I previously want to build my own 8020 rig, since I can get the profiles in very low price...but I change my mind not long after I did more research....its just more time consuming and difficult than what I imagined...so at the end, I concluded that life would be easier if I simply buy one which already approved by many people..even though it may take a lot more of time to save up money for that..

It's so true that the custom parts of Sim Lab which absence in the JCL varieties is to tempting, but what I like the JCL is they have upgrade parts which allow you to adjust the wheel deck height and depth to almost any positions. So you can easily change from GT to Formula / prototype sitting position..I quite appreciate this design..and therefore still can't make up my mind to choose which one...but thanks to the cash constraint, I have plenty of time to think about it...

I read from other forum that people said the profile quality of JCL is not as good as Sim Lab, and also the wheel deck arms will produce little bit lateral flex under strong toque due to the mounting method. I have no idea since I never play with aluminum profile before, not sure if the profile quality can cause a huge difference in term of stiffness....I thought all 8020 rigs have the same stiffness no matter a light profile or "heavy" profile is being used, as long as the rigs are build in the same way...I mean like what we have today, the profiles are interconnected closely with brackets..

For the pedal, it's a pity that import cost is so high for HPP...luckily for me, the cost is just the same high as I am too far away from both places...but the funny thing is that though I chose HPP, it is not my number 1 option in the wishlist, I am true believer of using real world gears in sim racing, so actually the number 1 for me are those modified hydraulic Tilton pedals....however the price is just so frustrating.....

 

[RobertR1]

Good news. Got the extender worked and now the wheel is mounted. Now to get the rest done, setup and then start driving. This stuff is not for the impatient but there's an element of reward to it because you're literally seeing it build out.

 

[RobertR1]

How do I mount the USB box with the HE pedals to the P1 chassis?
Or should I just put that on the floor where?

 

[Furnace Inferno]

How do I mount the USB box with the HE pedals to the P1 chassis?
Or should I just put that on the floor where?

I had some spare steel sheet I’ve screwed it to under the pedal deck but you could just as easily use some blutac/double sided tape and/or cable ties, I’ve got the control box for the HE handbrake like that with blutac.

 

[RobertR1]

I had some spare steel sheet I’ve screwed it to under the pedal deck but you could just as easily use some blutac/double sided tape and/or cable ties, I’ve got the control box for the HE handbrake like that with blutac.

I need to get some double sided tape for sure. I think the failsafe on the osw needs that also. I’m not a fan of drilling stuff so double sided tape will have to do. I’ll just put it on the ground for now while I do the setup

 

[anton_Chez]

I use Velcro with adhesive on the back. Put some on where you want it on the rig and some on the back of whatever you want to mount. Easy. No drilling, and it shouldn't fall off it's pretty strong once stuck together.

 

[RobertR1]

Up and running! did DiView on pedals. Default SRB profile in Simucube. AC setup basically turn all affects off..

Had to look 45 degrees left at my monitor lol since the rift was disconnected.

lap 2 matched my best time already so initial feeling is good! I'll do some real driving with vr tomorrow night along with tuning.

50% ffb is too much on a mx5 club.

The software part was so quick and painless. Simucube is really plug n play.

 

[anton_Chez]

Yeah I never understood how people were calling Sumucube software tedious to set up. There are a few settings in there that are confusing but following the linked guide, you get a pretty good idea for what you do and don't need. Most of the newer in-depth sims don't require any of the sliders, and maybe just a unique setting of the reconstruction filter to suit the title and feeling you want.

My FFB rule is generally run the motor at 10A (80% approximately for the small mige) in the software and then start at around 30% in the sim. Then work my way up or down from there. So when you add it all up, you actually are running around 25% of the total motor strenghh, give or take. I don't see the need for huge amounts of FFB.

 

[RobertR1]

Yeah I never understood how people were calling Sumucube software tedious to set up. There are a few settings in there that are confusing but following the linked guide, you get a pretty good idea for what you do and don't need. Most of the newer in-depth sims don't require any of the sliders, and maybe just a unique setting of the reconstruction filter to suit the title and feeling you want.

My FFB rule is generally run the motor at 10A (80% approximately for the small mige) in the software and then start at around 30% in the sim. Then work my way up or down from there. So when you add it all up, you actually are running around 25% of the total motor strenghh, give or take. I don't see the need for huge amounts of FFB.

Are you using the Gyro = 1 in AC.ini cfg file or just have all the config stuff standard?

In Simucube, what bump stop settings are you using?

I'm highly impressed with Simucube. I assume like anything, it was a lot less refined in the early years. Keep in mind that this software has been worked on for 3 years now? That's a fair amount of tuning.

I will ground everything but for now, if there's any EMI, I have no know of confirming that but grounding is good practice.

 

[anton_Chez]

I would only worry about EMI if something stops working when it normally used to work. Other than that there isn't a sure fire way of knowing if there is an issue. I've grounded my pedals because they came with a grounding wire but I haven't grounded my wheel base.

Yeah we're only new to Simucube but before that software people used to use MMOS and most were pretty happy with it from what I've read. Now that isn't supported anymore, Simucube is the go to software for OSW.

I use Content Manager and I enable 'enable gyroscopic effect' in the options menu in there. Aris from Kunos mentioned it in a livestream not too long ago and said it was pretty handy to have on. I've not noticed any ill effects from it being on with the OSW. I used to use it with the CSW. I never changed it when I switched wheels.

Bump stop I just used the settings that I followed from a few Youtube vids on setting up for various sims with the OSW. I didn't really even use it before I decided to dig in and set each sim up according to what some others had found to be good settings.

That's what it's on for most of them, I think.

 

[RobertR1]

I would only worry about EMI if something stops working when it normally used to work. Other than that there isn't a sure fire way of knowing if there is an issue. I've grounded my pedals because they came with a grounding wire but I haven't grounded my wheel base.

Yeah we're only new to Simucube but before that software people used to use MMOS and most were pretty happy with it from what I've read. Now that isn't supported anymore, Simucube is the go to software for OSW.

I use Content Manager and I enable 'enable gyroscopic effect' in the options menu in there. Aris from Kunos mentioned it in a livestream not too long ago and said it was pretty handy to have on. I've not noticed any ill effects from it being on with the OSW. I used to use it with the CSW. I never changed it when I switched wheels.

Bump stop I just used the settings that I followed from a few Youtube vids on setting up for various sims with the OSW. I didn't really even use it before I decided to dig in and set each sim up according to what some others had found to be good settings.

View attachment 260983

That's what it's on for most of them, I think.

I have content manager and crew chief but I always forget to turn them on! I really like crew chief when racing.

I’ll ground the pedals also since ,as you stated, it comes with a cable and doesn’t hurt anything.

Wouldn’t having a higher bumpstop percentage mean there will be a higher “jerk” of the wheel? More violent? What am I missing? In my head I think I’m confusing it with bump steering from real life.

 

[RobertR1]

So I did the whole "100% ffb thing tonight."

Assetto Corsa. F2004 with 100% FFB in game and in Simucube. Spa. No TC/SC/ABS, etc. Did 10 laps. I can feel a slight pump and some fatigue in my forearms but nothing unbearable. That session certainly did heat up the motor! It was weird to see FFB being clipped. At 100% FFB, I'd equate it to a 2 stroke go-kart so if you can handle that, you can handle this at max. I still don't see a reason for going to a 30nm motor or running this motor at 100% outside of messing around. Unless you want a grip/forearm/shoulder workout?

I've found the sweet spot for close to real life for road cars and non formula cars cars around 30% in game. The biggest thing I've noticed is the consistency in laptimes so far. I'm going to play a fair amount this week and will post detail findings then. More to real track usage than the G29 I'd been using.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

So I did the whole "100% ffb thing tonight."

Assetto Corsa. F2004 with 100% FFB in game and in Simucube. Spa. No TC/SC/ABS, etc. Did 10 laps. I can feel a slight pump and some fatigue in my forearms but nothing unbearable. That session certainly did heat up the motor! It was weird to see FFB being clipped. At 100% FFB, I'd equate it to a 2 stroke go-kart so if you can handle that, you can handle this at max. I still don't see a reason for going to a 30nm motor or running this motor at 100% outside of messing around. Unless you want a grip/forearm/shoulder workout?

I've found the sweet spot for close to real life for road cars and non formula cars cars around 30% in game. The biggest thing I've noticed is the consistency in laptimes so far. I'm going to play a fair amount this week and will post detail findings then. More to real track usage than the G29 I'd been using.

FFB clipping at 100% is software clipping in AC. The gain setting is for weaker wheels to boost strength rather than the 100% being realistic, the stronger your wheel the lower you actually need to put the setting. Without true to life Nm setups per car like in rF2 and iRacing where you also set the maximum capabilities of your wheel the gain sliders are pretty meaningless and you have to guess what feels about right.

 

[RobertR1]

Probably the most minimalist P1 sim rig out there. No 3 pedals even.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I read from other forum that people said the profile quality of JCL is not as good as Sim Lab, and also the wheel deck arms will produce little bit lateral flex under strong toque due to the mounting method. I have no idea since I never play with aluminum profile before, not sure if the profile quality can cause a huge difference in term of stiffness....I thought all 8020 rigs have the same stiffness no matter a light profile or "heavy" profile is being used, as long as the rigs are build in the same way...I mean like what we have today, the profiles are interconnected closely with brackets..

There's different types profile of the same style, which will affect the stiffness. The image on the left is profile that Sim-Labs use. This is the common stuff.

JCL use profile I've never seen before. It's looks lighter so will would be less stiff. But in use I doubt it's a big deal.

I have a an early Sim-Lab rig but my Bodnar DD wheel is mounted exactly like the JCL rig. flex isn't a problem.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Probably the most minimalist P1 sim rig out there. No 3 pedals even.

Why have you used the monitor offset bolts in the accelerator pedal? The screws into those won’t be doing anything.