Breaking News | Audi Announce DTM Exit

[josap11]

Can you elaborate on this?

Mercedes has been in the DTM for a long, long time and they chose Formula E over DTM. That is understandable from a marketing perspective especially as that also means that DTM did not provide enough coverage and recognition. Besides that, the bigger point from my perspective is the change in tire pressures around the Nürburgring to nuke Mercedes and favour Audi who didn't have their cars where they needed to be. In addition to that, a number of the stewards decisions especially that year were very much biased towards Audi and against Audi to bring them back into the fight and create an artificial championship fight that Audi and Rast had no place to be in.

 

[josap11]

Absolutely agree in this. Motorsport as we know it is unfortunately a dying breed and I think we will see more and more of manufactors pulling out.
Let's face it, we are all stuck in the 90's with our passion for loud engines and burning rubber... Some might even call us dinasours

I just hope that whatever takes over from fossil fuels is capable of giving us some good racing.

Some racing series will just need to make a very clear decision to either go for road relevance or the show and spectacle because having both just doesn't really seem to be viable anymore.

It is also not viable anymore to have to build a car especially for a championship, it is just too much of an investment. We have seen that with LMH and now with DTM (I know the Super GT cross over but that was very one sided) and more will come. The only championship big enough for that is F1 and even that is showing it's limits. It is telling that the most popular categories are GT3 and LMP2 in many different series.

 

[DrRob]

Bentley still has major involvement as it is their engine and car. It could be like Audi LMP1 program that Audi dumped, Joest had to go elsewhere to race.

VW had pulled out from any form of ICE racing and Audi only working on customer racing which I think it could be a reason from up top. Racing does develop the technology of road cars but it seemed like there is a large gap to jump through for endurance GT cars so VW really wants to push for EV to do endurance. Particularly for fast charging in EV.

IDR is fun to drive in R3E but I really don't know if I want a grid full of them as a GT or prototypes. Hey, at least old Grand Turismo car sounds would be realistic now.

Makes sense. Bentley is still backing M-Sport.

In general the automotive industry is in the process of outsourcing engine development for production cars. In consequence it is not surprising they will stop gasoline based motorsport at some point.

This will be the point where I will limit my motorsport activities to simracing and historical motorsport.

 

[Kimmo Kokkonen]

I think that this is the future of racing

Not too expensive but super cool...R.I.P F1, R.I.P DTM

 

[Cheesenium]

Makes sense. Bentley is still backing M-Sport.

In general the automotive industry is in the process of outsourcing engine development for production cars. In consequence it is not surprising they will stop gasoline based motorsport at some point.

This will be the point where I will limit my motorsport activities to simracing and historical motorsport.

I am really not keen on the move to EV. It is too drastic of a change to be done in such a short time when the tech is generally still quite out of reach from most people. No doubt it has some interesting parts of the technology and also a lot of potential benefits, I feel like I am nowhere keen to embrace it. Most EV road cars are bland as hell as they look like a low LoD car from a distance in a game, except this is how they look in front of you.

Formula E is interesting but I can't stomach those circuits that are short and lack of personality where even Tilke's worse tracks have more personality and scenery. Then, you get racing F-Pace that looks so out of place. ETCR and E-RX potentially might be interesting but they are still far away.

There is a reason why EV lost to ICE in the first place in the early 20th century. Lithium capacity just sucks, it feels like we move back to timber because of concrete sucks in terms of its green credential. I still think a slower, more economic rapid adoption of hybrids and efficient engines would be better as now we have this massive problem with long-distance trucks somehow has to go EV too.

 

[Dirk Steffen]

I think that this is the future of racing

Not too expensive but super cool...R.I.P F1, R.I.P DTM

Ohhhh, noooo, don't bend that nice notchback Saab at 06:40 !!! ;-)
This type of racing is pretty cool indeed, love it!

 

[DrRob]

I am really not keen on the move to EV. It is too drastic of a change to be done in such a short time when the tech is generally still quite out of reach from most people. No doubt it has some interesting parts of the technology and also a lot of potential benefits, I feel like I am nowhere keen to embrace it. Most EV road cars are bland as hell as they look like a low LoD car from a distance in a game, except this is how they look in front of you.

Formula E is interesting but I can't stomach those circuits that are short and lack of personality where even Tilke's worse tracks have more personality and scenery. Then, you get racing F-Pace that looks so out of place. ETCR and E-RX potentially might be interesting but they are still far away.

There is a reason why EV lost to ICE in the first place in the early 20th century. Lithium capacity just sucks, it feels like we move back to timber because of concrete sucks in terms of its green credential. I still think a slower, more economic rapid adoption of hybrids and efficient engines would be better as now we have this massive problem with long-distance trucks somehow has to go EV too.

Agree on cars and tracks. Don't forget hydrogen for long distance transportation. Not sure they want to race with those tho.

Also to be added: FIAs broadcasting strategy. I am not willing to pay for Formula E and WEC if I find other motorsport to my liking free of charge. And the quality of content/broadcast/racing is imo the same. Plus I can't stand hypetrain series with wonderboy drivers.

I was hoping second gen biofuels would "save" combustion engine motorsports in the short term as well as normal road cars (and still do). But they are not really there yet it seems. Not much new info on that front at least that I have noticed.
And it doesn't seem to fit with the new white vest image of certain automotive companies.
And there we are again. Interesting though that Li-powered EVs are not so green and sustainable as they want to make us believe....oh well, that marketing....

 

[MrLonguinha]

Can you elaborate on this?

I didn't understand what I meant, about what I said.

 

[TheGrunt]

Good riddance!

It's a simple process -
Manufacturers get into a motorsport series, (be it F1, WRC etc) spiral its costs, push out the privateers, ruin the formula to push the agenda of the day and then pull out when the wind changes direction, leaving a completely ruined series behind.

I can't think of a series that wouldn't be better off without manufacturers. That way the focus would be on the series and spectacle, not on what sells more cars.

I have come to the same conclusion myself. Many series seem to be keen on pulling big bucks manufacturers in and having dislike for small privateer outfits. They are so interested in money and media visibility manufacturers bring, that they always forget that privateers are ultimately there for the racing, but manufacturers are for marketing. As quickly as a manufacturers can jump in, they surely are to exit: it is just another board decision for them. And as you said, they leave a ruined series behind which most likely collapses soon after.

F1 is the ultimate example of this policy. Starting from early 90s, the main drive has been pulling more manufacturers in. Complicated and expensive technology has driven small engine manufacturers away and small privateer teams are at minimum tied to the manufacturers with power unit deals. Big manufacturers with their always important public image bring not only professional, but also bland and serious corporate feel to the series while they reign.

And if manufacturers don't ruin the series, then FIA will play that crucial role willingly. Anyone remember the DTM-ITC fiasco?

 

[DrRob]

And if manufacturers don't ruin the series, then FIA will play that crucial role willingly. Anyone remember the DTM-ITC fiasco?

Another one: BPR Global GT Series => FIA GT => Busted!

 

[Ricoow]

My very first track visit ever was DTM. Zandvoort 2006.

 

[ianthem]

They should really just adopt GTE rules for DTM. BMW and Porsche already have GTE cars, Audi and Mercedes have GT3 cars they could evolve to GTE spec. That way it's two birds with one stone, they can just head to Le Mans afterwards. Having an entire new series to build cars for that has its own unique spec probably won't make sense for quite some time after corona viruses effects subside.

I do wonder, though, how this crisis will affect the road to motorsport becoming more EV based. It's an interesting push and pull, manufacturers want more relevant engine development with hybrids or pure EV, but the teams actually racing want cheaper budgets and to stick with ICE engines. Personally, Formula E hasn't been interesting to me at all, but I do think that series should be finding ways to make hybrid systems more affordable and standardized, until they become cheaper to develop and manufacture. Electric isn't really yet to the point where it's that energy efficient as a choice, and comes with huge drawbacks, but super efficient hybrids can do a lot of good while still being fun.

 

[Nick Hill]

The handful of DTM races I have seen have been great fun. Cool looking/sounding cars and really wild on track action. Just beyond my free time budget when I have F1 and IndyCar to attend to.

 

[Isaac Chavira]

Hey Sector 3, can we get the last season of DTM on RRE?

@anthony monteil

 

[TheGrunt]

They should really just adopt GTE rules for DTM.

I think the problem here would be that in the eyes of general public, it wouldn't be any different from the plethora of GT3 class racing series, including ADAC GT Masters.

DTM has been about Class 1 touring cars since the early 90s and I believe Gr A before that. I think ultimately they should reboot the series (again) and make a new formula for Class 1. IMO this could be for example a purpose built spec or semi spec race car in the style of RRRE silhouette series or something that could be built from production cars, that is more traditional touring car approach. It definitely should be something that could provide a platform independent from big manufacturers.

Edit: Then again, IMO in the near future it will be difficult for many series to remain relevant, so in the end it may be just a time to let it go.

 

[ianthem]

I think the problem here would be that in the eyes of general public, it wouldn't be any different from the plethora of GT3 class racing series, including ADAC GT Masters.

DTM has been about Class 1 touring cars since the early 90s and I believe Gr A before that. I think ultimately they should reboot the series (again) and make a new formula for Class 1. IMO this could be for example a purpose built spec or semi spec race car in the style of RRRE silhouette series or something that could be built from production cars, that is more traditional touring car approach. It definitely should be something that could provide a platform independent from big manufacturers.

Edit: Then again, IMO in the near future it will be difficult for many series to remain relevant, so in the end it may be just a time to let it go.

I honestly think that GT3 is probably much more in the spirit of old DTM than the current DTM rules are, anyway. The modern DTM cars are cool, don't get me wrong, but they also felt very disconnected from any of the cars that you actually can buy, much in the way modern NASCAR has steered away from actual car bodies.

 

[TheGrunt]

I honestly think that GT3 is probably much more in the spirit of old DTM than the current DTM rules are, anyway.

I don't disagree with you. Still, question here remains what the old DTM is. Class 1 rules have been in place since 1995. Cost wise it would probably make sense to go with either GTE/3 or touring cars. Still, these kind of series already exist so where do we need DTM then? There is a place for series with purpose built race cars, so maybe DTM should stick with it?

NASCAR comparison is not really that good, series has fared really well being not that stock. And it has been that way for a long time. By 1960 cars were so heavily modified and built for racing that there really wasn't much left from production cars but the chassis and in late 1960s series introduced new homologation rule, which required only 500 car production. And starting from 1972 even the chassis was purpose built. NASCAR's problems stem from the general difficulties of motorsports, 2008 downturn and bad decisions concerning both racing and technical rules. Racing fans in NA haven't been bothered by the tubular chassis construction of the vehicles for decades, if ever.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Edit: Then again, IMO in the near future it will be difficult for many series to remain relevant, so in the end it may be just a time to let it go.

I think that even the most pessimistic of us will be taken by surprise when we discover what will be left of the most expensive of the sponsor and spectator driven sport events we have today.

 

[Kevinobert66]

In a massive blow for the German DTM category, long time participants Audi have confirmed they will leave the championship at the end of 2020 - leaving just BMW as the sole manufacturer in series.

With Covid-19 still causing calendar havoc that has prevented the DTM from starting their 2020 championship campaign, organiser ITR have been hit with another major headache for the future of the category, as Audi have today confirmed they will no-longer be participating in the series from the end of this year.

“Audi has shaped the DTM and the DTM has shaped Audi. This demonstrates what power lies in motorsport – technologically and emotionally,” says Markus Duesmann, Chairman of the Board of Management of AUDI AG. “With this energy, we’re going to drive our transformation into a provider of sporty, sustainable electric mobility forward. That’s why we’re also focusing our efforts on the race track and systematically competing for tomorrow’s ‘Vorsprung.’” Formula E offers a very attractive platform for this. To complement it, we’re investigating other progressive motorsport formats for the future.” ​

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“We’re hoping that this currently difficult situation will improve soon and that we’ll still be able to contest a few DTM races this year,” says Member of the Board for Development Hans-Joachim Rothenpieler. “The fans would deserve this, and so would the ITR, our drivers as well as our teams and partners, who will now have adequate advance notice to reposition themselves for the time after 2020. Successful motorsport is – and will continue to be – an important element of Audi’s DNA.” ​

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Having switched to the new Class One regulations in line with the Japanese Super GT Series, and following the recent departures of both Mercedes and the semi-works Aston Martin outfit, it remains to be seen what the future of the DTM will look like come 2021.

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DTM races are quite boring to watch but for me as a german it is bad to not have the DTM
It was stupid before to just have 2 manufacturers so yeah.

 

[JoshCaminski]

Sort of predictable I must say, most car manufacturers are going to focus mostly on Electric engines which perhaps is probably going to be the future of racing in the long run, just look at the state of F1.