Brawn Wants to "Iron Out" Shark Fins

Riblo · Mar 5, 2017

the KERS was first introduced by a Pegeout LMP1 prototype in 2008 and adopted in F1 in 2009...
Sorry but LMP1 was first with KERS

Kurei · Mar 5, 2017

- Question a statement made about shark fins in racing.
- Thread de-rails into KERS timeline argument

Come on guys.

Celestiale · Mar 5, 2017

Sky said:
the 1998 f1 engines were v10s. what are you talking about?

What does cylinder number have to do with Kers

Riblo said:
the KERS was first introduced by a Pegeout LMP1 prototype in 2008 and adopted in F1 in 2009...
Sorry but LMP1 was first with KERS

You got your facts wrong
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1-kers-system-mclaren/#

Knoxstar · Mar 5, 2017

aduo said:
F1 sucks today , whoever says different he never watched 90s and 90s . all the cars looks the same , try paint them all in black and then recognize each team ..... my F1 is V12 or even V10 not less , no turbo , no electric jokes , Brutal power and great sounds , that should be F1 , not that ridicolous farts .

I've been watching for decades let's just say and the reality is twofold.
1. Aero rules are very strict. There is only so much you can do within that scope.
2. Wind tunnels, computers, etc. give everyone the same basic information so the results are going to look similar.

It's no more realistic to compare the past cars to the present than it is to compare Fangio to Hamilton.

At least these billboard shark fins are a different twist. I dare say Andrian Newey and his ilk would rather have a pretty car but their job is to produce a fast one. In a few years we'll be chuckling about these abominations like we did some of the weird cars from the 70's when it was at best an educated guess when it came to aero.

Now here's what I would like. A 2 plane wing on the front and back. No more and no barge boards.

Bobby Pennington · Mar 6, 2017

I know beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but the late 80's to early 90's were pretty sexy

Luke Maney · Mar 6, 2017

I can see brawn is going to ruin F1, is there a way to get a message to him?

I mean F1 is all about innovation, not making all the cars the same! I remember in 77 and 79 at Long Beach that the racecars were as different from each other as a mixed basket of fruit. I mean v12, v8, flat 12 and turbo charged v6 engines on the track at the same time...it was great, they sounded different from each other not to mention the differences in aero designs....6 wheel tyrell , brabham fan car, lotus ground effects, etc...

In my opinion they should stop trying to make them all the same but rather let them dream and create and innovate. Now that would be very exciting and tremendously entertaining!

Luke Maney · Mar 6, 2017

f1wheelnut said:
I know beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but the late 80's to early 90's were pretty sexyView attachment 177560

Nice pic (i agree cool car)

Bobby Pennington · Mar 6, 2017

Luke Maney said:
Nice pic (i agree cool car)

Thanks

thewarmer · Mar 7, 2017

Problem solved here look at this guys take on F1 todays tech , but picking the best from the Golden eras of the 80's & 90's

https://www.behance.net/gallery/49570219/Brabham-BT61X-F1-Concept

Bobby Pennington · Mar 7, 2017

thewarmer said:
Problem solved here look at this guys take on F1 todays tech , but picking the best from the Golden eras of the 80's & 90's

https://www.behance.net/gallery/49570219/Brabham-BT61X-F1-Concept

Wicked!!!

2112 · Mar 7, 2017

Luke Maney said:
I can see brawn is going to ruin F1, is there a way to get a message to him?

I mean F1 is all about innovation, not making all the cars the same! I remember in 77 and 79 at Long Beach that the racecars were as different from each other as a mixed basket of fruit. I mean v12, v8, flat 12 and turbo charged v6 engines on the track at the same time...it was great, they sounded different from each other not to mention the differences in aero designs....6 wheel tyrell , brabham fan car, lotus ground effects, etc...

In my opinion they should stop trying to make them all the same but rather let them dream and create and innovate. Now that would be very exciting and tremendously entertaining!

The differences are many. Back then you had a lot of privateers and real small teams that would be here for a few years, then disappear. I remember when Rebaque bought one of Andretti's Lotus 79's for his own use, and Wolff tried real hard to make an exact copy of the Lotus 79, but was sued by Chapman. Of course the Wolff version was a POS but at least there was the attempt, right?

They used to be able to test all year long, as long as they had the money, and they had qualy engines and race engines. Teams would race the same car for three or four years, making small changes along the way to keep up with the Joneses. I think that changed with the Lotus 79 as it was such a huge jump in (legal-the Brabham fan car was the biggest jump IMO...Or the Chaparral fan car for that matter...) technology that it ultimately led to the downfall of Lotus, as Chapman could not keep up with the rate of tech change after that. The smaller teams started whining because they could not afford the testing and changes the larger teams could, they could not produce a brand new car every year, so they started to institute bans on testing throughout the season. Then they started limiting off-season testing. And so on.

Now the smaller teams cannot afford the tech to keep going, they cannot test so they cannot improve over the season and they are reliant upon poaching dated tech just to get a car built. Yet they are still backmarker cars who have to hope of winning unless luck decides to smile upon them once in a blue moon.

F1 has the same issues, they were just more fun back then. And more colorful.

Oh, the turbos of the '80's did not have the screech that the v-12's and V-10's had but they did have more character as you could hear the crickets and whines from the turbos. Then, at least, you felt as if the car was really going fast, not just hoovering along. The engines were louder then too.

Bobby Pennington · Mar 7, 2017

2112 said:
The differences are many. Back then you had a lot of privateers and real small teams that would be here for a few years, then disappear. I remember when Rebaque bought one of Andretti's Lotus 79's for his own use, and Wolff tried real hard to make an exact copy of the Lotus 79, but was sued by Chapman. Of course the Wolff version was a POS but at least there was the attempt, right?

They used to be able to test all year long, as long as they had the money, and they had qualy engines and race engines. Teams would race the same car for three or four years, making small changes along the way to keep up with the Joneses. I think that changed with the Lotus 79 as it was such a huge jump in (legal-the Brabham fan car was the biggest jump IMO...Or the Chaparral fan car for that matter...) technology that it ultimately led to the downfall of Lotus, as Chapman could not keep up with the rate of tech change after that. The smaller teams started whining because they could not afford the testing and changes the larger teams could, they could not produce a brand new car every year, so they started to institute bans on testing throughout the season. Then they started limiting off-season testing. And so on.

Now the smaller teams cannot afford the tech to keep going, they cannot test so they cannot improve over the season and they are reliant upon poaching dated tech just to get a car built. Yet they are still backmarker cars who have to hope of winning unless luck decides to smile upon them once in a blue moon.

F1 has the same issues, they were just more fun back then. And more colorful.

Oh, the turbos of the '80's did not have the screech that the v-12's and V-10's had but they did have more character as you could hear the crickets and whines from the turbos. Then, at least, you felt as if the car was really going fast, not just hoovering along. The engines were louder then too.

Look at the qualifying laps from the 80's turbo era, especially at Monaco, and it's mind blowing. Grenades for qualifying engines but man they were quick for the day and a handful.
I agree the teams had much more character and characters back then. Let's get rid of the wind tunnels and let 'em test. They can use the aero liquid to see airflow and lap times for validation.