A Gateway to the Future: Neural AI in Simracing

[roadyroad]

The most important issue in the current games is the awareness of the AI in some specific situations.

At the end, who really cares that the AI is using the same physics than those applied to the player's car as long as the player feels as if he was racing humans in confidence (as trustful human racers can be)?

 

[mantasisg]

You'd still have the option to override and still would accept the changes made. You wouldn't be locked out of it. You'd have the AI act as brainpower and as a point of reference. Putting a car on rails is still limited to a drivers ability to drive fast. You're not going to turn a tail end driver to a front runner. Let's shift from setups for a min and move to race strategy.

In a long race, you're expected to come up with strategy changes on the fly, keeping an eye on everyone's pace and then hoping you don't come out in traffic to make you strategy work. That's a perfect use of AI built in in giving you strategy options to choose on the fly based on what's happening on the track. Maybe come in early and change tires to come out in clean air? Maybe stay out based on your degradation rates, increase your mileage and get across the finish line having gained positions?

I am still against the suggestion. Not only it is unrealistic expectation to have such feature, at least I would expect it to never work perfectly, because simply too many variables in proper simulation. However, it would be interesting if simulation would suggest you a moment for a pitstop, or even boss you to pitstop, calculate optimum refuel load. But thats it, I don't see anything more of having a virtual AI crew. Certainly not doing you a setup, I don't think it is even possible, too many variables.

I remember winning some online races, and one epic league race due to smart decisions which I have done for a pitstops. It would not have been so awesome if those decisions were made by the AI. Simply less of experience, less fun, less rewarding.

Technically this sport could improve up to the level when you barely should do anything at all rather than just be inside the car while AI drives around. Technologically that would be great improvement, but in terms of a sport it would be awful.

 

[mantasisg]

as the player feels as if he was racing humans in confidence (as trustful human racers can be)?

I am not entirelly sure if you asked this by knowing the answer already.

Anybody who has seen how extremely competitive racing looks knows that you should never be confident about other driver that desperately wants to overtake you, or defend from you overtaking him. And you should either be ready for evasive action, or create a situation where everything is in your rivals hands and hope that he will chicken out.

So I wonder what are the odds that many simracers floods to complain about AI if a developer actually manages to make it as it should be - destroying you in every possible way (having in mind that some of the racing drivers are crazy).

 

[roadyroad]

I am not entirelly sure if you asked this by knowing the answer already.

Anybody who has seen how extremely competitive racing looks knows that you should never be confident about other driver that desperately wants to overtake you, or defend from you overtaking him. And you should either be ready for evasive action, or create a situation where everything is in your rivals hands and hope that he will chicken out.

So I wonder what are the odds that many simracers floods to complain about AI if a developer actually manages to make it as it should be - destroying you in every possible way (having in mind that some of the racing drivers are crazy).

That's the whole point, although any simulated series should get its specific level of agressiveness and stupidity : not any human will crash its car a slower car although it has space to brake or to avoid it. Many current AI do it and you can't feel confident with this kind of AI. Other AI in some corners are just faster than the player and crush in him if he is in its racing line. It won't happen with human drivers. Get rid of this kind of defects and you got a nice experience.

 

[Luuk Roper]

What then also could be possible, is that the AI adapt to your performance level. Eg. if you put a 1:25 lap time, the AI will then try to be around the same time, whilst gradually getting quicker and going towards a 1:24. Which will then motivate the player to go quicker. With neural AI, you could then taylor your gaming experience to your performance!

 

[mantasisg]

There is a lot of variables. If AI crashed into you it may also be your fault.

I guess when there will start emerging posts in reddit simracing page (among all those gear and rigs pictures that is the only thing that goes on there), where people will ask if thats their fault or AI fault, then you'll know that AI became realistic.

Reality has always been messed up.

 

[JumpinK]

Cool stuff but I'd rather see some improved physics in MotoGP 19.
Maybe milestone can sell their AI stuff to the developers of AC/ACC since they're also italians.

And then go for acquiring some programmers who can actually code proper physics for a motorcycle...

Ooops, this one got me a little off topic...

 

[InsaneOzzie]

If this neural Ai has the ability to remember and store new information on how to respond to a certain incident or how to take a particular hairpin, then our PC's will need to have massive storage drives so the Ai can store their information. If you consider how many incidents can occur during a 20 lap race with 20 Ai all storing data, it's mind boggling how big the Ai "memory file" would become after a year of offline racing. I'll stick to racing real people in multiplayer thanks.

 

[Metla]

I rather the AI be used for vehicle tuning first. I want a virtual "team" behind me as a driver.

One one hand the sim is trying to replicate real life. On the other hand, I'm the driver, mechanic, engineer and strategist for a GT3 team which is absolutely not close to reality at all. Those functions should be AI driven and combined with audio feedback as a driver would give. "I have understeer in T1 and oversteer in T14" etc.

100 percent agreement.

Ideally I'd like the game to collect the data, analyse the data, Give me some recommendations.
Even basic stuff, tire pressures, gearing etc.

 

[Lars Hansen]

What then also could be possible, is that the AI adapt to your performance level. Eg. if you put a 1:25 lap time, the AI will then try to be around the same time, whilst gradually getting quicker and going towards a 1:24. Which will then motivate the player to go quicker. With neural AI, you could then taylor your gaming experience to your performance!

Already exists. Raceroom is sporting an adaptive AI which responds to the player lap-times.
Granted, the technique behind it is a little crude, and as with everything computer-related there's the odd hiccup.
But it does work surprisingly well.

 

[Dethrone1427]

Principally neural AI could be way better than the complete un-intelligent AI all racing games are using today.
Hehe but I will se a good FUNCTIONING neural AI system on a home computer before I believe it.
Until that is fullfilled I just consider sim devs info about it as rather hot air.
Because until now they cant even produce AI that use same physics and TM as the player car/MC.

Have you tried racing the AI in AMS? I certainly would not class that or RF2 AI as un-intelligent.

 

[Patrik Marek]

I had fun races in rallyecross with AI in DIrt2, although they were slow but I suppose they will get faster late on in my careeer

 

[Emery]

If this neural Ai has the ability to remember and store new information on how to respond to a certain incident or how to take a particular hairpin, then our PC's will need to have massive storage drives so the Ai can store their information. If you consider how many incidents can occur during a 20 lap race with 20 Ai all storing data, it's mind boggling how big the Ai "memory file" would become after a year of offline racing. I'll stick to racing real people in multiplayer thanks.

rF2 type 2 AI training already does this (type 1 AI training was the old rF1 style). The files are not large, not compared to 4k skin files! And I don't know about you, but any PC I buy these days has at least 1 TB of solid state disk.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

rF2 type 2 AI training already does this (type 1 AI training was the old rF1 style). The files are not large, not compared to 4k skin files! And I don't know about you, but any PC I buy these days has at least 1 TB of solid state disk.

I'm not an avid rF2 driver, but sounds like I may need to take another look
So I take it this neural Ai's storage behavior will be the same as what we have in sims currently?

 

[ozm8ey]

DrivATARS™

Those are great, aren't they... huh? ...No? ...ANYone??

The idea is good its just people in racing games drive like assholes so the drivertars do too

 

[1nProgress]

I rather the AI be used for vehicle tuning first. I want a virtual "team" behind me as a driver.

One one hand the sim is trying to replicate real life. On the other hand, I'm the driver, mechanic, engineer and strategist for a GT3 team which is absolutely not close to reality at all. Those functions should be AI driven and combined with audio feedback as a driver would give. "I have understeer in T1 and oversteer in T14" etc.

This is a very interesting POV. The AI driver coach would be fantastic. Would be able to assess your driving through each sector and provide detailed feedback on where you can find time and adjust your approach. Way better than a distracting animated green driving line.

 

[Graham Botha]

If you can still find a copy of it, Setup Developer was made back in the rF1 days and essentially acts as an active guide towards better setup makings. Tell the software that the car is doing and it will give you a solution as to how to make it handle better. It was made by/for Race2Play, but good luck finding a working download link ever since R2P itself shut down a few years ago.

There is a new version on Steam.

 

[Mark Ratzenbacher]

They can call it neural, artificial, intelligent machine learning or whatever. There is always code behind it trying to emulate what one programmer thinks recognition/learning must be defined.
Therefore its the same as before. Good or bad programming. Don't be fooled by modern wordings.

And in the sense of racing, i am disturbed by the existence of "ramming" in the word "programming".

 

[Mr Deap]

@kunos AI simulation value is quite high. I can't tell the difference between AI & public lobbies.

 

[Simon Gardner]

I've found with many games the AI can be good at defending but too timid when it comes to attacking, the only way they will pass you is if you make a mistake.
I'd like to see more aggressive AI that will occasionally try a move that isn't on. That doesn't mean is has to be like a public lobby but it would be more realistic.