Featured 2019 RD MINI Challenge | General Discussion

Discussion in 'RD MINI Challenge by Extreme Simracing' started by Bram Hengeveld, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Frank Lehmann

    Frank Lehmann
    ... usually known as Ernie Premium

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    Well, the season is still running and it's really good fun. So i'd like to thank all who involved in organising this Mini Challenge.:thumbsup:

    However, it's my first season here. And because of that, i wasn't really aware of one thing, which i would call "very suboptimal". And this is the point system.

    Here i'm just quoting Bram and i'll give my honest opinion afterwards.
    The rules are set and Bram has pointed out the difficulty to promote. So my following suggestion is never meant as a change for the current season, but maybe for a possible season 2020.;)

    I think the overlapping points between both divisions are way too little. Speaking of 24 drivers per division. Currently the 22nd place of division 1 is getting the same points as a winner of division 2. I don't want to diminish the performance of a div1-driver, which finishs in 22nd position. But i hope i'm not alone with my estimation, that getting 22nd of 24 drivers in division 1 is much easier than winning in division 2. You could cruise relaxed to last place in division 1, and still score the same points as a podium driver in division 2.:O_o: Adding 2-3 DNFs and your point score could be even higher.

    So in my opinion the current point system isn't fairly balanced, when it comes to more than one division. A division 1 driver has always the advantage to score more points much easier than a division 2 driver.

    Well, i have to admit, that i for myself had really underestimated the importance of the pre-qualification. Definitively my own fault. Perhaps due to my inexperience with the series.:redface: But with the current point system the pre-qualification (and the determination if you're in div 1 or div 2) has more impact on the whole season than the 5 Rounds itself. This shouldn't be the intention.

    Nonetheless, it doesn't change my fun i have in the races.:) But after 3 wins in division 2 it feels a little bit strange, that i got less points than a div1-driver with 3 (unfortunate) races.
    Maybe this is food for thought regarding a possible following season.

    cheers
    Ernie
     
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  2. Jopamir

    Jopamir
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    Absolutely right Frank, I was thinking you would be in Div.1, hands-down, but as you mentioned, it's not possible as it is (or very very hard)
    An idea for the FUTURE leagues: the last 10 or 5 positions points of div.1 overlap the first 10 or 5 position points of div.2.
    Example: the P15(div1)=P1(div2); P16(div1)=P2(div2);.... on a 10/overlap;
    or the P20(div1)=P1(div2); P21(div1)=P2(div2);and so on...on a 5/overlap.
    Enjoying immensely this my first league also, so please accept this thoughts as constructive and positive in every way or form.;)
    Cheers
     
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  3. Dave Stephenson

    Dave Stephenson
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    At the risk of getting shot to pieces for the reasons why, I'll give some insight into how we came to the system we came to. It's a while since we ran a league with promotions/demotions at all and we were in two minds whether to just split at pre-qual and leave it or have promotion and relegation. It does ad some overhead to the administrative side but that's by-the by we accept that will be a thing but the main concern was the amount of friction it has caused amongst drivers in previous series.

    In the end we went with it but with the primary concern of ensuring that the top server was fill each week with people who actually have the desire to want to compete consistently and not throw the towel in at the first sign of trouble. We don't particularly like in any event, not just in leagues, when guys get light or moderate damage and choose quit over pit and much prefer to see people stick it out. They inevitably will pick up others later in the race who come into issues and get themselves some more racing later in the race and that's a win for those involved.

    This is particularly important with the reverse grid format where quitting early gets you the best possible start in race 2. This is also a key part (though not the only reason) why we don't apply points for percentage finished, with drivers only scoring for crossing the line under chequered flag. The cost is intentionally high.

    With that in mind we went with a little overlap to make sure that anyone in the top server who consistently doesn't see races through, especially in the early stages, demotes quickly. We knew it wouldn't be easy without that to get promoted, but we weren't setting out to make it easy to move up, but easy to move down. It was driven primarily by an attempt to instil a particular culture in the field.

    I agree the system as it is is not really conducive to promotion on merit unless you are consistently hitting podiums, even in the reverse grid races. It can be done though as has been shown in division one and also by you Frank in division two. You're right on the cusp at the moment and had your first round performance been a little closer to the last two I think you'd be in the top division now.

    In the past when we set up to have active promotion and demotion we did indeed stagger the points over the top/bottom five positions and alternate the countdown between the two as referenced in your Jose's post.

    This season in the background has also been used as a proving ground for some internal tools we're working on to make the management of such systems easier and faster. Between that reduction in administrative overhead and the general good vibe of the drivers field throughout the season, I'd certainly be more open to seeing more regular promotion/demotion in future editions.
     
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  4. Frank Lehmann

    Frank Lehmann
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    Thanks for explanation, Dave.:thumbsup: As i said, it's my first season here and i didn't checked the rules for former seasons. And yes you're right, my result in Round 1 was poor and now i see the consequences.

    Surely, there's no perfect system. But the current point system favours div 1 drivers to a large extent.
    And yes, i'm fully aware that the performance density in div 1 is much higher. But to be a little exaggerated, as long as you see the finish line, you can easily "survive" in division 1 with 4-5 bad results, where one single fail in div 2 could make it almost impossible to promote.
    (Even if just to "hibernate" in div 1 shouldn't be the main goal for the championship):rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  5. Craig Patteson

    Craig Patteson
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    Let’s hope the broadcast behaves itself today :)
     
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  6. Joseph Wright

    Joseph Wright
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    Paul will be hosting and his internet is beast.
     
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  7. CMGARAGE

    CMGARAGE
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    If the scoring is handled by these tools they may need some tweaking. :p It looks like Chris Butcher has been wacked with a double penalty. His score should be 304 by my calculations. He's 15 points fewer than that atm, on 289.

    I thought the original penalty was a little harsh but there's no need to take him to the cleaners :D
     
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  8. Paul Glover

    Paul Glover
    RaceDepartment Social Media Manager Staff Premium

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Caramidaru Andrei Bogdan

    Caramidaru Andrei Bogdan
    Mr. C Staff Premium

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    scared
     
  10. Dave Stephenson

    Dave Stephenson
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    @CMGARAGE yeah it seemed odd, it was late when I put it up I almost didn't in the end. Thanks for the heads up, I'll get it sorted.
     
  11. Dave Stephenson

    Dave Stephenson
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    Sorted.
     
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  12. Dave Stephenson

    Dave Stephenson
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    @Frank Lehmann Yep there's a balance to find to try and reward success without over doing it. We'll certainly look at it next time around. Enjoy you're run in Div 1 next week ;)
     
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  13. Frank Lehmann

    Frank Lehmann
    ... usually known as Ernie Premium

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    Thanks Dave. Yes, finding the balance isn't that easy. But i'm sure you'll find a better solution for an upcoming season.:thumbsup:

    Best example are the results of Round 4 of Division 1. There were only 22 drivers in division 1. The last finisher has scored 4 points more than me as winner of div 2. And even without the 2 DNFs every driver could score even or more points as every driver in division 2.

    I wonder why there were only 22 drivers in division 1? And why it is not possible to fill out the grid with div 2 drivers. I'm sure 2 drivers of div 2 would have been happy to join div 1.:rolleyes:
     
  14. Bram Hengeveld

    Bram Hengeveld
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    Me too. Two drivers who obviously checked the forums today but couldn't be arsed to show up and race or report their absence. An absolute joke if you ask me.
     
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  15. Daniel Monteiro

    Daniel Monteiro
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    I must say the way the way the rules are worded is slightly misleading. Although from experience I understood (as I am sure most of us did) that it is meant for the driver to notify the absence up to 24 hours before the beginning of practice, "within 24 hours of the commencement of the practice session" actually means that the driver should notify of his/her absence 24 hours or less before the start of practice, but not earlier. Who knows, maybe it could be the case for some of the absent drivers, they actually complied to the rules. Just saying :) can be an improvement when announcing the rules for the future championships and events :thumbsup:

    And about it being a valid reason, anybody can write anything on the internet and we all know it will be believed, so it is a bit of a guilt trip ticket to put that there :p:coffee:
     
  16. Jopamir

    Jopamir
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    HELP
    Im having big issue w/ AMS not playing ball after Nvidia driver update...
     
  17. Jopamir

    Jopamir
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    Sorted...:)
     
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  18. Yetch

    Yetch
    GooseCreature Premium

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    Having issues myself, after rig rebuild, every other sim I have works fine, AMS, keep getting the message a file is missing or corrupt, it will be downloaded but never does! Have removed all the folders from previous accounts, open as admin, whatever. No matter what I try it refuses to start. Very close to giving up trying. Why does only AMS ever give me this sort of grief. :mad::mad:
     
  19. Frank Lehmann

    Frank Lehmann
    ... usually known as Ernie Premium

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    Maybe there's an issue with the "d3d9.dll" (reported by others in Reiza forum). Rename or delete the file in AMS folder and try again.
     
  20. Yetch

    Yetch
    GooseCreature Premium

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    Thanx Frank, when I've finished downloading from Steam for the fourth time, I will indeed do that and verify files again. Last time I had this issue it was old profiles confusing the poor thing, bless. :rolleyes:
    Got to get back for Hockenheim, now we're shot of you that is! :laugh:
     
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