Michael Masi Replaced after FIA review

norbs · Feb 19, 2022

daveclifton said:
It was just a joke. I thought that was obvious, obviously not to everyone.

Fair enough. My sarcasm detector has been off lately.

Im a bit touchy when it comes to the royals and the **** they seem to pull.

Carry on.

Deleted member 379375 · Feb 19, 2022

davehenrie said:
The official line prior to the race, was points would be deducted if Max & Lewis went off due to contact with each other. The general consensus was this was directly targeted at Max.

It was targeted at whoever had a habit, intension or tendency to run opponents off the road. You can decide for yourself who you think that may apply to.

davehenrie · Feb 19, 2022

winston malcolm said:
It was targeted at whoever had a habit, intension or tendency to run opponents off the road. You can decide for yourself who you think that may apply to.

In either event, both times the two drivers came near each other, they both avoided any contact, Lewis used the first to pull away from Max while off the racing surface & Max's move for the inside pass was strangely not defended vigorously by Lewis.

Deleted member 379375 · Feb 19, 2022

davehenrie said:
In either event, both times the two drivers came near each other, they both avoided any contact, Lewis used the first to pull away from Max while off the racing surface & Max's move for the inside pass was strangely not defended vigorously by Lewis.

I'm not interested in regurgitating events. I have my opinion on drivers and their tactics and I'm sure yo have yours,.

Damage Inc · Feb 19, 2022

trichens said:
The rules need to be tightened up so there is no room for interpretation so that the same situation won't arise.
That's the best we can hope for the coming seasons.
Mercedes based their strategy on the rules as they believed they were to be applied.
A virtual safety car would have forced cars to hold station so LH had a big enough lead.
A real safety car would have bunched the cars up but there weren't enough laps to get the race running under green flag after all the lapped cars had past LH
And their options were limited.

1. RB woud have done the reverse of whatever M-B had done with regards to pit-stops. In fact they HAD to do the opposite of whatever M-B did to stand any remote chance of MV winning.
If LH had pitted MV would have stayed out and taken the lead - all MV had to do then is defend...
Would RB have been so keen to have the cars between MV and LH removed in that situation?

2. We also have to ask that if LH was behind MV on newer tyres would both have actually crossed the finish line.
In the event of both not finishing then MV would be WDC...
We've never had any driver deliberately drive another off the track to win the WDC have we.

With the WDC at stake there was no way M-B could allow LH to get behind MV as - and I think we'd all be in agreement here - there wasn't going to be any way the LH was going to be able to find a way to pass MV.

The rules just need to be tidied up - if lapped cars are to unlapp themselves then that's ALL lapped cars.

And as I have said before, lapped cars behind MV then became a "shield" so that he didn't need to defend his second place, and could concentrate on passing LH... that also seems very unfair.
He was given an opportunity that was denied third placed Carlos Sainz.

When Latifi hit the wall the gap between LH and MV was 11 secs, and MV to CS was 55 secs.
The lap before the restart had the gaps at 6.9 secs and 4.9 secs respectively...
At the restart the gaps were 0.4 secs and 2.9 secs - I've not checked what cars were between MV and CS at the restart but a 2.9 secs gap would indicate that there were some cars between the two otherwise CS would have been on MV's gearbox and the gap would have been 0.5 secs and MV would have to be looking in his mirrors.

The other thing to consider is if CS was in the lead with LH second and MV third and each had cars between them what would Masi have done then?

Not true, everyone with a certain viewpoint is using hindsight to assume Merc KNEW the race would finish behind the SC so picked the best strategy for that outcome. The reality is no-one knew what exactly was going to happen but a restart was more likely until Latifi's brakes caught fire delaying the clear up. Unless you are suggesting Mercedes knew Latifi's brakes were going to catch fire, that's some crystal ball they have there!! If Latifi's brakes had not caught fire Latifi's car would have been cleared much earlier. Giving Masi more time to clear lapped cars and restart the race.

1) Of course RB would have done the opposite to Mercedes, of course RB would not want the lapped cars removed...and of course in that hypothetical scenario if Lewis had overtaken Max to win his fans would be proclaiming his god like genius. (and Max fans would be complaining, though I'd wager less vociferously IMO)

2) as Dave Henrie said, Max was under no illusion any clash between him and Lewis would be scrutinised to the nth degree and any hint of foul play would get what Schumacher got in '97 (We've never had any driver deliberately drive another off the track to win the WDC and get penalised for it have we?).

Finally the "Sainz" conundrum many bring up..."surely Max would be looking in his mirrors worried about Sainz", Maybe in to T1 (Max didn't over take Lewis into T1), but there's 2 things people who mention Sainz as a "threat" forget:

a) ALL race he didn't have Max's pace...1-2 seconds a lap slower, plus Sainz had NO tyre advantage over Max on the restart.

b) if Sainz was on Max's gearbox why fail to mention Tsunoda on Sainz's gearbox, pushing for his first ever podium? IMO Sainz would be more concerned with what was in his mirrors than thinking about getting past Max.

finally the "what would Masi have done then" as if Masi was favouring Max. If Masi was favouring Max he did a fricken **** job of it letting Lewis catch up the last few races and then soundly be in control ALL race in Abu Dhabi!!!! Then make such an unprecedented decision that would be scrutinised......worst fix ever!!! IMO the only thing Masi was guilty of was trying to have a last lap race, regardless of who won, regardless of who had an advantage.

Damage Inc · Feb 19, 2022

daveclifton said:
Nah, Verstappen won't care. His Dad was a reckless prick too. Like Hamilton, Senna was cheated out of the 1989 championship, but came back and won the next two. I fully expect a blistering performance from Hamilton and a record-breaking 8th championship, putting little Max back in his box for another year. Many silver-spoon kids have won the world championship, few have had the FIA rig it for them.

talking about reckless pricks:

Lauda: Hamilton should be punished

Niki Lauda has called on the FIA to hand Lewis Hamilton sanctions for what he believes is dangerous driving, warning that if there is no reaction to his latest collisions then someone could get killed.

www.autosport.com

Damage Inc · Feb 19, 2022

BillyBobSenna said:
The 2021 F1 championship was like a World Cup Final tied until one of the teams scored as time ends but the scorekeeper gives the goal to the team that was scored on. How can Max be proud of that?

I've seen some bad analogies on the subject, but this is one of the worst. Max got a dodgy penalty against the run of play to win....like we've NEVER EVER seen that in footy right?

Damage Inc · Feb 19, 2022

winston malcolm said:
It was targeted at whoever had a habit, intension or tendency to run opponents off the road. You can decide for yourself who you think that may apply to.

IceColdBeard_24 · Feb 19, 2022

This year has been a catastrophe.....race after race..... Teams should never have been allowed to speak with the FIA in the first place..... But I think Masi can send a bouquet to Wolff and Horner for his new promotion as the official FIA Bartender position

He was offered a new position at the FIA, but do we know where yet ?

LeSunTzu · Feb 19, 2022

BillyBobSenna said:
The 2021 F1 championship was like a World Cup Final tied until one of the teams scored as time ends but the scorekeeper gives the goal to the team that was scored on. How can Max be proud of that?

First he is not responsible for Massi's mistakes. Second I'm pretty sure he considers (although that is objectively far from clear) that several unfair decisions have been taken against him during the season which balances the last GP non-sense. Third he clearly matched Hamilton during the whole season and in those cases F1 history has shown the title is decided by fate (like stupid regulations in Prost vs Lauda, accidents in Prost vs Senna, a broken gearbox in the last 2007 GP, late rain in the laps of 2008, and so on).

Since you mention World Cup Finals, the 90 one was as bad as the last 2021 GP but that did not make Germany a second-rate champion.

BillyBobSenna · Feb 19, 2022

Damage Inc said:
I've seen some bad analogies on the subject, but this is one of the worst. Max got a dodgy penalty against the run of play to win....like we've NEVER EVER seen that in footy right?

I think the analogy is spot on and makes it easy for people to clearly understand what happened at the end of the last race. Lewis and the MB team had just scored the perfect victory by not pitting and the rules dictating the race must finish under yellow. Instead of giving the score to Lewis and
MB, the official gave the score to Max and Red Bull by reversing the rule that the race must end under yellow and instead place Max on fresh tires directly behind Lewis. What happen at the end of the last race was not a dodgy penalty but a fundamental failure of the racing process.

Damage Inc · Feb 19, 2022

BillyBobSenna said:
I think the analogy is spot on and makes it easy for people to clearly understand what happened at the end of the last race. Lewis and the MB team had just scored the perfect victory by not pitting and the rules dictating the race must finish under yellow. Instead of giving the score to Lewis and
MB, the official gave the score to Max and Red Bull by reversing the rule that the race must end under yellow and instead place Max on fresh tires directly behind Lewis. What happen at the end of the last race was not a dodgy penalty but a fundamental failure of the racing process.

There is NO rule that dictates a race finishes under yellow...this is the simple premise Lewis fanbois clearly do not comprehend. When Merc made their strategy call NO-ONE could possibly know how the race would end. No rule was reversed, Masi didn't place Max on fresh tyres. At worst Masi made a mistake with the rules, like a refereee giving a dodgy penalty....EVERYTHING else has nothing to do with Masi:

a) the initial crash...nothing to do with Masi.
b) the pitstops and lack thereof....nothing to do with Masi.
c) Max actually getting past Lewis...nothing to do with Masi (even on worn tyres Lewis should have used his experience to make it harder than he did for Max to pass).

Look at it this way, there's is a fine line between what was 100% legit (for a Lewis fan) and what happened. If Latifi's brakes had NOT caught fire, all lapped cars would have been cleared, SC comes in then we have a last lap that MAX STILL WINS.

note, caps not "shouting" just emphasis, can't be arsed to go back and bold it all in lower case!

BillyBobSenna · Feb 19, 2022

Damage Inc said:
There is NO rule that dictates a race finishes under yellow...this is the simple premise Lewis fanbois clearly do not comprehend. When Merc made their strategy call NO-ONE could possibly know how the race would end. No rule was reversed, Masi didn't place Max on fresh tyres. At worst Masi made a mistake with the rules, like a refereee giving a dodgy penalty....EVERYTHING else has nothing to do with Masi:

a) the initial crash...nothing to do with Masi.
b) the pitstops and lack thereof....nothing to do with Masi.
c) Max actually getting past Lewis...nothing to do with Masi (even on worn tyres Lewis should have used his experience to make it harder than he did for Max to pass).

Look at it this way, there's is a fine line between what was 100% legit (for a Lewis fan) and what happened. If Latifi's brakes had NOT caught fire, all lapped cars would have been cleared, SC comes in then we have a last lap that MAX STILL WINS.

note, caps not "shouting" just emphasis, can't be arsed to go back and bold it all in lower case!

The restart of the race with 1 lap left was a complete failure of the racing process and the biggest reason why Masi was fired.

Damage Inc · Feb 19, 2022

BillyBobSenna said:
The restart of the race with 1 lap left was a complete failure of the racing process and the biggest reason why Masi was fired.

I understand that, but until Latifi's brakes caught fire that was never an issue. The race would have started 100% legit without that happening. I also think Masi was "moved/demoted" (afaik he's still employed by FIA) because overall his decisions weren't the best, I don't think Abu Dhabi was the biggest reason.

davehenrie · Feb 19, 2022

Damage Inc said:
I don't think Abu Dhabi was the biggest reason.

I believe you are correct, but, it certainly was the most public.

muzikant · Feb 19, 2022

thanks to merc and sky sports everyone is again very concerned about the same and the same... they have achieved their goal. scandalous. double corruption, why wasn't Masi fired sooner? any influence from outside the FIA is very bad. If we still pick up old stories, I have not forgotten Hungary and Silverstone that was very much in favor of Mercedes

Richard Wilks · Feb 19, 2022

muzikant said:
thanks to merc and sky sports everyone is again very concerned about the same and the same... they have achieved their goal. scandalous. double corruption, why wasn't Masi fired sooner? any influence from outside the FIA is very bad. If we still pick up old stories, I have not forgotten Hungary and Silverstone that was very much in favor of Mercedes

That's why i think removing Masi is a big mistake. If Ben S thought that this would appease Toto and the army of rabid press agents and internet warriors, he is more naive that i thought. This will only add fuel to the fire, in both camps, and open the door for more accusations of outside influence in big decisions.

I would have kept Masi, albeit in a more insulated role, and create the structures around him, to show that it's about improving methods, not finding scapegoats for mistakes or controversial decisions in the past.

LeSunTzu · Feb 19, 2022

Damage Inc said:
talking about reckless pricks:

Lauda: Hamilton should be punished

Niki Lauda has called on the FIA to hand Lewis Hamilton sanctions for what he believes is dangerous driving, warning that if there is no reaction to his latest collisions then someone could get killed.

www.autosport.com

2011 was Hamilton's worst year in every respects. He had a few reckless moves that year for sure. He admitted it and corrected it. Something that someone might eventually do in the future, maybe...

MoerasGrizzly · Feb 19, 2022

Over the year we seemed to have been sliding downwards when it comes to racing etiquette. In the late season, Brazil and Jeddah were both some rather awful examples of how the rules were just not enforced at all, and whilst the eyes are all on the end of Abu Dhabi, the start of the finale also had Hamilton cutting corners and getting away with it very lightly.

Part of the problem of discussing this now is that the discussion inevitably devolves in "Who should have won the championship, Max or Lewis?", which isn't really the important question here. Both drivers became notably more aggressive when the season progressed, stretching the rules out to their advantage, and getting more and more leeway each time. In my opinion Max was more pro-active and Lewis more reactive with this regard (the Silverstone crash for me was a good example of what would happen if Lewis raced the same way as Max), but ultimately that doesn't really matter here. What matters here is that the stewards let it happen, especially towards the end of the season.

In the same vein, the end of Abu Dhabi tends to get looked at wrt the fight between Max and Lewis, but this isn't actually all that important. What's important is that Michael Masi looked at it that way, and he shouldn't have. By breaking FIA rules and letting only 5 cars unlap themselves whilst others stayed behind, purely based on where they happened to be in relation to Lewis and Max, gave those 5 cars a massive advantage for their own race results. It saved Vettel from having to defend against Daniel Ricciardo, for instance. There is no excuse for that.

Injafaz · Feb 19, 2022

Next year Codemasters will add something new to its popular F1 title , Formula Bus Racing. Play the part of a team or FIA boss and see how many officials you can throw under the bus.

Michael Masi Replaced after FIA review

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