Gran Turismo's Sophy AI beats a world record on the Nordschleife

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The infamous AI developped by a joint effort of Sony and Polyphony Digital comes back under the spotlight today.

A video was just posted today on the official Sony Ai youtube channel, showcasing the virtual driver beat the world record previously established by Igor Fraga on the most difficult of the Lewis Hamilton Time Trial Challenges: a lap of the Nürburgring Norschleife with the Sauber C9 on GT Sport.


While Lewis Hamilton's time was a very respectable 5:40.622, Igor Fraga, FIA GTC World Champion and Formula 3 driver, achieved the best time ever recorded by a human player with an incredible 5:26.682 lap. But that time is now good for the 2nd step of the podium only, as Sophy improved on it by a whopping 3.7 seconds margin, with only 5:22.975 to complete the lap.

The lap is quite spectacular to watch, although some of the lines taken will fuel up controversy: Sophy doesn't hesitate to use all the space the game allows before disqualifying the challenger, even if that means having most of the car on the grass. To clarify, the game takes the "2 wheels on track" rule to an extreme, so as long as 2 wheels still touch the tarmac, you're all good.

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Is this the only reason why Sophy is so fast ? According to high level Gran Turismo Esports players, the AI seems to still be stuck with the automatic gearbox as it uses 1st gear through Wehrseifen, the slowest corner of the track. This is still believed to be inefficient in that situation, which means Sophy could still unlock more potential if taught how to use a manual gearbox and shift at ideal points.

Kazunori Yamauchi has previously affirmed in an interview that the addition of Sophy in GT7 was planned for a future update, although no date estimation was given. More than just being an impossible to beat opponent, the goal is to make Sophy a true partner which would act as a teacher and a friend to players. Apparently, the AI can also be saved into different images at different states through its learning process, and provide opponent behaviors reflective of a wide variety of driver archetypes, from unsecure beginners and amateurs to experienced high split racers. If these things end up being inplemented to GT7, it should not only provide a new 3 chilis level of difficulty, but also improve the general behavior of the AI through the lower difficulty levels. But with the high amount of content in the game, we can wonder how much time will be needed to make Sophy truly ready to tackle all the cars / tracks / weather combinations possible.

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GT-Alex
Global motorsports enjoyer, long time simracer, Gran Turismo veteran, I've been driving alongside top drivers since the dawn of online pro leagues on Gran Turismo, and qualified for the only cancelled FIA GTC World Tour. I've left aside competitive driving in 2020 to dedicate myself to IGTL, a simracing organisation hosting high quality events for pro racers and customers, to create with friends the kind of events we wished we could have had. We strive to provide the best events for drivers and the best content for viewers, and want to help the simracing scene grow and shine further in the global esports scene.

Comments

Sophy AI also leads the way in marketing BS.
Wow, it can detect track limits and doesn't make human error. :rolleyes:

Actually last week I checked in on the GT community out of curiosity and it seems the game is still in a dire state. These nonsense Sophy pieces must be like rubbing salt in the wound for them.
 
I honestly don't see what the fuss is all about.

An AI posts an incredibly lap time on a simulated track. Of course there will be debate as to whether the lap was completely legal, but when the game thinks it's okay, it is okay.

The problem I have with this lap is that in real life, driving like that will NEVER result in any good lap time. The dirt you pick up during your trip through the grass will seriously mess with grip levels - dirty tires will make you pay dearly in the next couple of corners, so there's no way a car could be as fast as Sophy apparently is. And I'm not taking about a disqualification in potentia - I guess we can all agree that no matter what racing series we talk about, leaving the track with all four wheels will always result in an invalidation of the lap time.

What we have here is little more than a very sophisticated AI wringing the game's physics engine within a fraction of an inch of its life, nothing more. Certainly impressive to watch, but completely unrealistic. In a game which claims to be as realistic as possible, things like that are not supposed to work that way, and they certainly won't work that way in real life. All the lap does is highlight how faulty the AI truly is, no matter how good it seems to be. Therefore the whole thing is hardly worth the fuss so many people seem to make about it.
 
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It's impressive no doubt, but.. I kinda want to see an AI do this in a proper sim where riding kerbs and grass like this would result in a quick visit to the barriers. Though I recognize that would be an order of magnitude more difficult.
 
If you change the parameters, the AI will adjust to it, and run within more conservative track limits, quite simply. It is not cheating there, it's just exploiting any edge it can - which is exactly what esports pros tend to do, albeit less effectively. Also, dirty tyres are definitely a thing in GTS, the AI makes it look easy but it's definitely not. Pro players have raced Sophy and tried to replicate the lines, unsuccessfully.

There was even an attempt where 2 of them tried to block Sophy A before a corner, but Sophy A juked them, while Sophy B which was a bit behind anticipated them being slower through the corner and adapted its line, resulting in both AI cars overtaking both humans. The only thing Sophy was worse at than the humans was tyre management.

GTS and GT7 have their problems, but they're irrelevant to the achievements of the Sophy project.
 
I honestly don't see what the fuss is all about.

An AI posts an incredibly lap time on a simulated track. Of course there will be debate as to whether the lap was completely legal, but when the game thinks it's okay, it is okay.

The problem I have with this lap is that in real life, driving like that will NEVER result in any good lap time. The dirt you pick up during your trip through the grass will seriously mess with grip levels - dirty tires will make you pay dearly in the next couple of corners, so there's no way a car could be as fast as Sophy apparently is. And I'm not taking about a disqualification in potentia - I guess we can all agree that no matter what racing series we talk about, leaving the track with all four wheels will always result in an invalidation of the lap time.

What we have here is little more than a very sophisticated AI wringing the game's physics engine within a fraction of an inch of its life, nothing more. Certainly impressive to watch, but completely unrealistic. In a game which claims to be as realistic as possible, things like that are not supposed to work that way, and they certainly won't work that way in real life. All the lap does is highlight how faulty the AI truly is, no matter how good it seems to be. Therefore the whole thing is hardly worth the fuss so many people seem to make about it.
I agree with you that the handling of track limits and the physics of a car off track are not really realistic in GT7 (I am not a fan of GT7 at all). But it is still impressive that an adaptive ai (Sophy) is learning to race a track using the same inputs (steering wheel and pedals), physics and track limits as a human is eventually (after 10000 laps or so) able to beat the fastest GT7 player in the world. That is comparable with the first time a computer beat the world champion in chess. Also adaptive ai is a totally different approach of programming ai in racing games and can have several improvements over the way ai is currently programmed.
 
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If you want to know why, you have to know the difference between an adaptive learning ai and a preprogrammed ai and that is a long story to explain.

Without getting into detail what the differences are, a few advantages of adaptive ai like Sophy are:

1) unlike preprogrammed ai, Sophy can show a driver how to set the best laptimes with the same physics and race rules as the human driver
2) Sophy will show more realistic race behaviour (defending, overtaking, etc.) as preprogrammed ai
3) Sophy will never do anything the human racer cannot do, like driving faster than you on a long straight with the same car and setup (without slip stream off course)
thanks for the inputs :thumbsup:
 
Nobody should be annoyed at the AI, it's the game that's at fault for the end result. The physics engine in Gran Turismo -- especially in terms of grass, kerb, and tyre physics -- has a long way to go to be close to the competition. That's not news, but this AI just exploits it to maximum effect and I'm surprised that they felt comfortable releasing this for that reason.
 
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Staff
Premium
GT7 apparently does not punish the racer very hard by going off track like other games do like AC, RF2, AMS2, etc.
I think the "ugliness" of the lap doesnt reflect anything bad about Sophy itself, which is actually a great achievement in AI, but about the physics of the game.
The physics engine in Gran Turismo -- especially in terms of grass, kerb, and tyre physics -- has a long way to go to be close to the competition. That's not news, but this AI just exploits it to maximum effect and I'm surprised that they felt comfortable releasing this for that reason.
Yes, yes and yes.
 
Computer does fast lap by going off-track. Not my cup of tea.

The coolest part IMO of the Sophy project was that it learned to slipstream/pull out on a straight, outbrake into a corner, and do 'cut backs' on opponents through corners – all in a human-like way. And you could see that in clips of the races Sophy AI cars ran against esports GT players. I can't wait for more news about this portion of the project to come out. It's also the part that could provide the best, most innovative spillovers into future PC sim racing titles. :)
 
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I agree that ultimately, the raw pace is the least interesting part of Sophy so far. The possible applications go far beyond just providing better AI opponents, Sophy could prove very useful for testing a various array of things, such as physics engines, car setups, balance of performance, and I could see that being used by manufacturers and racing teams if Sony makes it commercially available to third parties in some way.
 
Breaking news! Computer does a thing faster than a human :sleep:

Wake me up when Sophy can compete cleanly and realistically, as opposed to exploiting a not-so-legal racing line and hurr durr fastest lap alone on a track.
I have news for you: Sophy beat the GT7 world champion in a single lap using the same physics and track limit rules as the world champion! If GT7 enforced different track limit rules, like staying with 4 wheels on the track Sophy would have won as well but would have taken different racing lines.

The developers of Sophy have let her race multiple races against several of the best GT7 racers in the world and Sophy beat them All. So not only is Sophy the best GT7 hotlapper, she is also the best GT7 multiple lap racer already in the world.

Indeed as you say it is breaking news, because it is the first time adaptive ai have beaten the best human players in the world in a racing game.

You can find videos of the races of Sophy against world class players on YouTube. You will see that Sophy races more cleanly as the ai currently programmed in racing games and 99% more cleanly as human opponents.
 
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Hey but, what is this?!? It's OK using all the available track, but this is a corner cut! LOL
 
It's 2022 and fanboys still use the "AI is running same physics as human player" like this is a big deal and something you need to have a good AI.
If your PC is running 40 AI cars with same physics as yours... your physics isn't good enough. Plain and simple. If you seriously think a car with decent physics will run over curbs this high without at least jumping pretty high you got issues.
Making an AI go fast, programed or not (in this case), is not a big deal.

Some people eat what marketing departments do like it's ice cream tho, to each their own.
 
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Fast AI means nothing but good propaganda. A good racing game/sim AI is the one that behave the most as an human, specially in decision-making-department.
 
I honestly don't see what the fuss is all about.

An AI posts an incredibly lap time on a simulated track. Of course there will be debate as to whether the lap was completely legal, but when the game thinks it's okay, it is okay.

The problem I have with this lap is that in real life, driving like that will NEVER result in any good lap time. The dirt you pick up during your trip through the grass will seriously mess with grip levels - dirty tires will make you pay dearly in the next couple of corners, so there's no way a car could be as fast as Sophy apparently is. And I'm not taking about a disqualification in potentia - I guess we can all agree that no matter what racing series we talk about, leaving the track with all four wheels will always result in an invalidation of the lap time.

What we have here is little more than a very sophisticated AI wringing the game's physics engine within a fraction of an inch of its life, nothing more. Certainly impressive to watch, but completely unrealistic. In a game which claims to be as realistic as possible, things like that are not supposed to work that way, and they certainly won't work that way in real life. All the lap does is highlight how faulty the AI truly is, no matter how good it seems to be. Therefore the whole thing is hardly worth the fuss so many people seem to make about it.
+
Nobody should be annoyed at the AI, it's the game that's at fault for the end result. The physics engine in Gran Turismo -- especially in terms of grass, kerb, and tyre physics -- has a long way to go to be close to the competition. That's not news, but this AI just exploits it to maximum effect and I'm surprised that they felt comfortable releasing this for that reason.
Maybe the best utility of this kind of AI is to point how toyish the sims physics still are. I believe that GT7 is somewhere behind the top tier sims for PC, but even those, with an AI process like this, would show very similar aberration in form of lap times, that are far from real life and closer to gamming-physics-sploit-ninjas.

Still there is a long way from sims to get really realistic... they are good enough to being convincing as ludic instruments, maybe somehow capable basic learning tools, but not proper simulations yet.
 
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I have news for you: Sophy beat the GT7 world champion in a single lap using the same physics and track limit rules as the world champion! If GT7 enforced different track limit rules, like staying with 4 wheels on the track Sophy would have won as well but would have taken different racing lines.

The developers of Sophy have let her race multiple races against several of the best GT7 racers in the world and Sophy beat them All. So not only is Sophy the best GT7 hotlapper, she is also the best GT7 multiple lap racer already in the world.

Indeed as you say it is breaking news, because it is the first time adaptive ai have beaten the best human players in the world in a racing game.

You can find videos of the races of Sophy against world class players on YouTube. You will see that Sophy races more cleanly as the ai currently programmed in racing games and 99% more cleanly as human opponents.
That WOULD be news... except the Sophy that won - Sophy Rouge - started in pole. The next closest AI was Sophy Lavande, which started 3rd and finished 3rd. All of the Sophy AI either lost position or held position at best, AND where extremely liberal about track limits. Nice try, Sony marketing guy :roflmao:

Credit where credit is due, Sophy AI raced well, especially for adaptive AI - but this is far from being the world-shattering feat you're making it out to be. On an actual sim with decent physics, the video would have been hilarious to watch and never advertised :D
 

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