2023 Formula One Italian Grand Prix

ozpata · Sep 2, 2023

some views of the track through the years

Kimirai · Sep 2, 2023

Here we are, ferrari looks strong

IceColdBeard_24 · Sep 2, 2023

Kimirai said:
Here we are, ferrari looks strong

Here we are, Ferrari embarrassing the tifosis

paracletus · Sep 2, 2023

Close session

Pete Conway · Sep 2, 2023

I think that the Red Bull is faster overall so could compromise the qualifying to ensure (as far as they can) a 10th on the trot win for Max Verstappen.
So again the best of the rest will be decided at the flag as to which team/drivers can do the next best job.
I have a feeling that once again Carlos Sainz will be manipulated into a worse position than Charles Leclerc as he has been several times this year... yet he still has more points that 'wonderboy'.
I'm also interested to see if the Williams of Alex or even Logan (who's been proving quicker than he was earlier) can finish ahead of the Mercedes cars, that would be a kick in the rump for Toto by his ex number two.

markg88 · Sep 2, 2023

Bottas has a great chance of a win doesn't he? I mean, Hamilton seems to rate him very highly.

Kimirai · Sep 2, 2023

Great qualifying session!

Pete Conway · Sep 2, 2023

markg88 said:
Bottas has a great chance of a win doesn't he? I mean, Hamilton seems to rate him very highly.

I think it's a little bit of Lewis feeling left out... 'Me, Me, talk about Me and what I achieved'
The basis of his statement is that Max has never driven in the same team as any of Lewis Hamilton's team mates, well, Lewis cannot compare because he too has never driven in the same team as any of Max's team mates.
I wouldn't consider JB as one of the 'F1 World greats' consistent, and good in the wet yes,( seems a nice bloke too)but he outscored LH during their time together, Rosberg dug deep and destroyed their friendship to win one, which shows Hamilton to be not as strong as some may* think, Verstappen on the other hand, once he'd got out of his teenage ways of throwing races away by insisting on bloody mindedness, he took every team mate to the cleaners.

* Edit... 'may not my'

rivett · Sep 3, 2023

Pete Conway said:
I think it's a little bit of Lewis feeling left out... 'Me, Me, talk about Me and what I achieved'
The basis of his statement is that Max has never driven in the same team as any of Lewis Hamilton's team mates, well, Lewis cannot compare because he too has never driven in the same team as any of Max's team mates.
I wouldn't consider JB as one of the 'F1 World greats' consistent, and good in the wet yes,( seems a nice bloke too)but he outscored LH during their time together, Rosberg dug deep and destroyed their friendship to win one, which shows Hamilton to be not as strong as some my think, Verstappen on the other hand, once he'd got out of his teenage ways of throwing races away by insisting on bloody mindedness, he took every team mate to the cleaners.

While I agree with some of that the fact is Red Bull have a Team Leader policy that favours their no1 driver. It was evident at Zandvoort with the pit stop fiasco. Lewis has 7 titles but without Rosberg in the team that would be eight not to mention the one Red Bull cheated from him so potentially 9 world Titles if Mercedes worked like red bull. Don't get me wrong I think the way Red Bull put all their effort into one driver is the best way to win the drivers championship and that is the only way Mercedes and Ferrari are going to challenge Max at Red Bull. Team mates taking points from each other will never challenge Max for the championship. Just look at how Alonso is benefitting at Aston Martin by being a No 1 driver Stroll is no where near him. A good car capable of top 5 finishes wasted.

Pete Conway · Sep 3, 2023

rivett said:
While I agree with some of that the fact is Red Bull have a Team Leader policy that favours their no1 driver. It was evident at Zandvoort with the pit stop fiasco. Lewis has 7 titles but without Rosberg in the team that would be eight not to mention the one Red Bull cheated from him so potentially 9 world Titles if Mercedes worked like red bull. Don't get me wrong I think the way Red Bull put all their effort into one driver is the best way to win the drivers championship and that is the only way Mercedes and Ferrari are going to challenge Max at Red Bull. Team mates taking points from each other will never challenge Max for the championship. Just look at how Alonso is benefitting at Aston Martin by being a No 1 driver Stroll is no where near him. A good car capable of top 5 finishes wasted.

You make some good points and I absolutely agree with 'most' of them, getting the Drivers Championship is great for publicity but it's the Constructors championship that brings in the winners money, to get both as Mercedes did for so long was a point pounded home, (more money in, more money to spend) though it matters a little less now as we have a cost cap.
Sadly, I feel that Checo has little chance to win one for the rest of the season because of the publicity of Max getting so many in a row/season, after all an occasional win is good for morale but, hell dude... Records!
Lewis getting 9 WDC's well that's a matter of 'what if', and if we go there then Michael Schumacher would be in a lesser standing if Senna hadn't died at Imola, after all, Schumi only just won in 94 from Damon, who though being no slouch was in no way Senna's equal, again, in 95 Williams may very well have lost footing because of the death of Senna, as we know, Damon won for Williams in 96 and Villeneuve the following year, suppose Ayrton had made the swap back to Mclaren for a few years... that could be looking like 9, if we use 'what if's'
As for Lewis, 'Crashgate' Could/would have made it 6 not 7 if the race had been annulled, and what would have happened if Alonso had joined Mercedes, in 15' instead of Mclaren? Mercedes would 'most likely' still have continued to win the Constructors every year but a share of the yearly driver spoils would most certainly have gone to the Spaniard.

Felipe's challenge is right, but I think he missed the boat because the folks that could have made it happen kept quiet, and unless the sport wants to rewrite the book he won't win... I think that the best that can happen for him is an out of court settlement.

Really, it's all a discussion for a table with Beer on it

markg88 · Sep 3, 2023

rivett said:
While I agree with some of that the fact is Red Bull have a Team Leader policy that favours their no1 driver. It was evident at Zandvoort with the pit stop fiasco. Lewis has 7 titles but without Rosberg in the team that would be eight not to mention the one Red Bull cheated from him so potentially 9 world Titles if Mercedes worked like red bull. Don't get me wrong I think the way Red Bull put all their effort into one driver is the best way to win the drivers championship and that is the only way Mercedes and Ferrari are going to challenge Max at Red Bull. Team mates taking points from each other will never challenge Max for the championship. Just look at how Alonso is benefitting at Aston Martin by being a No 1 driver Stroll is no where near him. A good car capable of top 5 finishes wasted.

I don't judge drivers by numbers of titles only. Vettel having 4 titles and Alonso 2 doesn't make Vettel a better driver than Alonso in my view, far from it. Hamilton can have 10 titles for all I care, it doesn't make him better (to me) than Alonso or Verstappen. A league table of drivers' success is unarguable, currently Hamilton ahead of Schumacher and all other drivers in whatever order behind in that league, but that league is NOT a measure of talent, best to worst.

markg88 · Sep 3, 2023

rivett said:
While I agree with some of that the fact is Red Bull have a Team Leader policy that favours their no1 driver. It was evident at Zandvoort with the pit stop fiasco. Lewis has 7 titles but without Rosberg in the team that would be eight not to mention the one Red Bull cheated from him so potentially 9 world Titles if Mercedes worked like red bull. Don't get me wrong I think the way Red Bull put all their effort into one driver is the best way to win the drivers championship and that is the only way Mercedes and Ferrari are going to challenge Max at Red Bull. Team mates taking points from each other will never challenge Max for the championship. Just look at how Alonso is benefitting at Aston Martin by being a No 1 driver Stroll is no where near him. A good car capable of top 5 finishes wasted.

I'm not sure going the route of IFs is a good idea to support a view as to why 'my' driver is the best. I can think of many IFs where results and title wins could have been completely different

Mekonrider · Sep 3, 2023

I can't be doing with tribal motorsport.
I just want to see a good race, most of the time I'm not bothered who wins but just hope I see some action and skill on display. It shouldn't end up like football where people get angry and hostile because their team lost and the don't appreciate the game they just watched.

tr1v1um · Sep 3, 2023

markg88 said:
I don't judge drivers by numbers of titles only. Vettel having 4 titles and Alonso 2 doesn't make Vettel a better driver than Alonso in my view, far from it. Hamilton can have 10 titles for all I care, it doesn't make him better (to me) than Alonso or Verstappen. A league table of drivers' success is unarguable, currently Hamilton ahead of Schumacher and all other drivers in whatever order behind in that league, but that league is NOT a measure of talent, best to worst.

I fully agree with your sentiment. I have the opinion that each decade or era brings a new driver who really shines and it's difficult to really point out a GOAT due to statistics alone. I mean, if you consider the names that Schumacher raced against, different points systems and the lower number of races per season, the cars that he drove and how he demolished team mates like Piquet, Brundle, Patrese or Baricchello it puts his achievements into a different light. That said, I consider other drivers as more talanted due to their versatility. If you take alook at Mario Andretti, who was fast with anything that had four wheels I would put those guys clearly above the current bunch of successfull F1 drivers. The only other drivers who come to my mind who have kind of the same versatility are Scott Dixon and Fernando Alonso. Funny enough, Dixon is one of the drivers that get's rarely mentioned in the international media, but you don't become a six time champion in a much more competetive spec series while being a beast on ovals, road courses and street courses alike and a three time Daytona 24 winner while being a douche.

Richard Wilks · Sep 3, 2023

rivett said:
While I agree with some of that the fact is Red Bull have a Team Leader policy that favours their no1 driver. It was evident at Zandvoort with the pit stop fiasco. Lewis has 7 titles but without Rosberg in the team that would be eight not to mention the one Red Bull cheated from him so potentially 9 world Titles if Mercedes worked like red bull. Don't get me wrong I think the way Red Bull put all their effort into one driver is the best way to win the drivers championship and that is the only way Mercedes and Ferrari are going to challenge Max at Red Bull. Team mates taking points from each other will never challenge Max for the championship. Just look at how Alonso is benefitting at Aston Martin by being a No 1 driver Stroll is no where near him. A good car capable of top 5 finishes wasted.

That might all be true, but tell me, how is that any different than Bottas moving aside for Lewis, or Kovalainen.

muzikant · Sep 3, 2023

tr1v1um said:
I fully agree with your sentiment. I have the opinion that each decade or era brings a new driver who really shines and it's difficult to really point out a GOAT due to statistics alone. I mean, if you consider the names that Schumacher raced against, different points systems and the lower number of races per season, the cars that he drove and how he demolished team mates like Piquet, Brundle, Patrese or Baricchello it puts his achievements into a different light. That said, I consider other drivers as more talanted due to their versatility. If you take alook at Mario Andretti, who was fast with anything that had four wheels I would put those guys clearly above the current bunch of successfull F1 drivers. The only other drivers who come to my mind who have kind of the same versatility are Scott Dixon and Fernando Alonso. Funny enough, Dixon is one of the drivers that get's rarely mentioned in the international media, but you don't become a six time champion in a much more competetive spec series while being a beast on ovals, road courses and street courses alike and a three time Daytona 24 winner while being a douche.

yes Andretti was certainly a talent, but I have to say.. in the Lotus years Ronnie Peterson was the more talented of the two. Ronnie was not contractually allowed to pass Andretti.

WPxNJ · Sep 3, 2023

Like it or hate it, we witnessed motorsport history today. Bravo Max.

Again, Russell wins best broadcast message.

PickABetterUsername01 · Sep 3, 2023

Damn what a race.

Max as always unstoppable, hamilton as always can't race other cars without contact and obviously lucky, breaks the other car while nothing happens to him.

Pete Conway · Sep 3, 2023

Great race, well done Max, and Carlos DOD easily, Checo, good to see that 2nd spot again.
These 5 second penalties are getting daft, LH crashed another car off the road 'again' for what? a penalty that doesn't matter, Oscar on the other hand had to pit for repairs losing vital championship points for himself and the team.
Ferrari... KUDOS guys for allowing their drivers to race each other so hard!

muzikant · Sep 3, 2023

Good racing! verstappen now really has that record, he managed to catch Sainz in the end. Lewis that was a dirty trick not a fan of penalties but this one was right. Leclerc and Carlos, I thought, they both go off track

2023 Formula One Italian Grand Prix

Who are you cheering on in the 2023 Italian Grand Prix?

Max Verstappen

Sergio Perez

Lewis Hamilton

George Russell

Lando Norris

Oscar Piastri

Charles Leclerc

Carlos Sainz

Fernando Alonso

Lance Stroll

Valtteri Bottas

Guanyu Zhou

Kevin Magnussen

Nico Hülkenberg

Esteban Ocon

Pierre Gasly

Alexander Albon

Logan Sargeant

Yuki Tsunoda

Liam Lawson

Verstappen on Pace for Record​

Massa Skips Monza​

The Italian Grand Prix Weather​

2023 Italian Grand Prix Schedule​

Comments

Attachments

Article information

Share this article

More games, period

Better graphics/visuals

Advanced physics and handling

More cars and tracks

AI improvements

AI engineering

Cross-platform play

New game Modes

Other, post your idea

Verstappen on Pace for Record

Massa Skips Monza

The Italian Grand Prix Weather

2023 Italian Grand Prix Schedule