Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Blkout]

I would like to add something simple to this very interesting conversation.
for me rF2 is best SIM ever, there is no thing to complain about this work and afford which is put in to this game. this "beta" version satisfy me 100% and I don't need any better shadows and better graphics. Few things... new mode for F1 and I am gonna buy life license. Trust me AC and project Cars are for people who likes graphics.
no one will beat ISI with physics and FF on the wheel.
enjoy rF2

maybe some day some of the F1 drivers will invest his money for this SIM in stead of putting money in to a cycling team

Opinions vary, but I don't think anyone believes that AC is just a pretty racing game. Its a one Hell of a simulator.

 

[Boby Kim]

I feel rF2 is the linux of the race sims. It is that good! I do not have any worries about the future of the sim. At this moment it is my personal favorite and most complete racing sim: 24 hour clock, weather, very good AI, steady MP and pitstops. I do not care about graphics. When i switch from AC to rF2 i think: "Ohhh". But once im in the car racing, the graphics fly out of the window. The only minor point i have is the sound. But besides that: very nice job done by ISI.

 

[Blkout]

The graphics are actually quite good in rF2 with everything turned up to 11, I don't know why people keep downplaying it, however, I do have an objection to the performance when the graphics are cranked up. With no Nvidia SLI support, even with a highly overclocked GTX 780 and 4.4GHz i5 2500k, I struggle to maintain 60fps at 2560x1600 resolution.

 

[Boby Kim]

I do not use SLI, just a single GTX 780 which is a blast in rF2 at 1920x1080 and maximum settings

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I agree rf2 maxed out actually looks great, also I use a single 780 classy and I am well over 60 fps most of the time at 5860x1080 resolution.

 

[Blkout]

I agree rf2 maxed out actually looks great, also I use a single 780 classy and I am well over 60 fps most of the time at 5860x1080 resolution.

No offense, I just don't see how that's possible with rf2 maxed out at that resolution. That's almost twice the pixels on my single 30" display and with the AI on screen, there's just no way it will stay "well over 60fps". You may be getting that on hot laps, but with AI, I just can't see how that's possible.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

No offense @Blkout but It doe's. Its also 2 232 800 more pixels, your resolution is 4,096,000 mines 6,328,800.

Granted on grid with 20 cars visible Silverstone I'm at 55 and after starts around t2 I'm back to above 60 fps usually between 70 and 90 ish rest of race depending on cars around me and part of the track, I used Silverstone when setting graphics and checking what I get to make sure it was able to cope with settings most other tracks fps is higher.

The classified is slightly higher default clocks not sure exactly what clocks speeds you have, also it can take a good overclock I've had it as high as 1250 core for benchmarks although I run it default with rf2 which is 1046 boost clock. I'd say your cpu is better I have older i7920 at only 3.8 with 12gb ram.

I seen what you said earlier and thought you should have better performance to myself, maybe the bigger total resolution can be as or more demanding than a thin wider resolution, I'm not really sure I would have thought more pixels the more demand personally, but I do get the fps I say. I take it you are upto date drivers wise etc obviously ?

 

[Blkout]

No offense @Blkout but It doe's. Its also 2 232 800 more pixels, your resolution is 4,096,000 mines 6,328,800.

Granted on grid with 20 cars visible Silverstone I'm at 55 and after starts around t2 I'm back to above 60 fps usually between 70 and 90 ish rest of race depending on cars around me and part of the track, I used Silverstone when setting graphics and checking what I get to make sure it was able to cope with settings most other tracks fps is higher.

The classified is slightly higher default clocks not sure exactly what clocks speeds you have, also it can take a good overclock I've had it as high as 1250 core for benchmarks although I run it default with rf2 which is 1046 boost clock. I'd say your cpu is better I have older i7920 at only 3.8 with 12gb ram.

I seen what you said earlier and thought you should have better performance to myself, maybe the bigger total resolution can be as or more demanding than a thin wider resolution, I'm not really sure I would have thought more pixels the more demand personally, but I do get the fps I say. I take it you are upto date drivers wise etc obviously ?

One of 780's is an EVGA Classified also running at 1228Mhz. The other is an Asus DCII at 1215Mhz. Since rF2 doesn't support SLI, only my Classified gets used. My GPU is the same as yours and overclocked higher, my memory is 16gb of 2133MHz, and my CPU is considerably faster. Obviously there are some differences between our "max" settings. Whatever the difference is in our setting is what is causing the difference. Its just not even possible for you to be running the same settings I am and getting more fps at a higher resolution.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

You must be more aa I assume, everything in my game options are full, yes or max and 16af 4xaa.
If you are higher you may want to try lower at your resolution will be hardly any jaggies anyway.
I can use 8xaa but a few parts of the lap when racing it drops just below 60, on start grid its 51/2 with Silvertone.

 

[Blkout]

You must be more aa I assume, everything in my game options are full, yes or max and 16af 4xaa.
If you are higher you may want to try lower at your resolution will be hardly any jaggies anyway.
I can use 8xaa but a few parts of the lap when racing it drops just below 60, on start grid its 51/2 with Silvertone.

My AA is set to level 8 which is the max setting in game.

I just did some testing and I think know the difference now. First, level 8 AA in game is far more demanding than 4xAA. Its about a 20fps difference at Silverstone. Second, there are tracks that are more graphically demanding than Silverstone. Some tracks are 10-20fps lower than Silverstone. Using 4xAA at Silverstone, my framerates fluctuate between 90-120, but using in game level 8 AA and racing a different track can bring my framerate down to 60.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

That's better if I was you I'd run slight less aa for over 60 consistantly, your not going to see jaggies at your resolution anyway

 

[Blkout]

That's better if I was you I'd run slight less aa for over 60 consistantly, your not going to see jaggies at your resolution anyway

Well, I dropped the AA to 4xAA override in the Nvidia control panel, but I noticed two settings in the graphics menu that made a very noticeable difference in framerate without much visual quality difference, one was the Shadow Blur, set to Optimal or Fast instead of Quality. The second was Environment Reflections, set to Low instead of High. Everything else at max setting except Shadows which I have to leave at High instead of Max because there's a graphics bug that causes black shadows all over the track when set to Max.

Framerates stay well above 60fps now, often between 80-120.

 

[stefaandk]

for me rF2 is best SIM ever, there is no thing to complain about this work and afford which is put in to this game. this "beta" version satisfy me 100% and I don't need any better shadows and better graphics. Few things... new mode for F1 and I am gonna buy life license. Trust me AC and project Cars are for people who likes graphics.
no one will beat ISI with physics and FF on the wheel.
enjoy rF2

No offense but that's such a cliche argument that always seems to be used to defend a product that has flaws that go well beyond just graphics, if people complain about the gfx they are quickly categorised as the "arcade racers crowd" not "real" simracers coz real simracers only care about the physics and it has to be one or the other right, we can't possibly have both, God won't allow it!

I don't see why physics and visuals have to be mutually exclusive, if we would get a mario cart type title on the PC but with the physics and FFB from rfactor 2 which yes are generally amongst the best you can't possibly argue that graphics don't matter.
I know it's an extreme example, a ridiculous one even but it proves the point that immersion comes from a combination of many things and what I see in my sims is still very important when it comes to giving me a sense simulating what I see in the real world.
Gfx have to be able to relay some sense of realism and as pc gamers/simmers we are quite aware of the technical realities as to what graphics nowadays can and cannot deliver.
And those realities inevitably translate into expectations which are always going to get higher as time and technology progresses.
We are very different in that regard and if anything I think gamers tend to be even more forgiving because we know that technology has its limits

My misses is NOT a gamer at all yet she will comment on me playing a game if she reckons it looks good and vice versa, rfactor 2 looks cartoony to her which to me speaks volumes as she doesn't care how technologically far a game has advanced in the visual area, it looks real or it doesn't. And "cartoony" for a sim in 2014 is not a good thing to hear sorry.

But the reasons that I find myself spending pretty much zero time with rfactor 2 today have nothing to do with how the game looks but all to do with how the game performs and lets assume for a minute that the graphics looked 100% photoreal but ran terribly I would probably accept it as we are "pushing things graphically"
But if it looks like a title that's developed 5+ years ago yet runs barely at 30fps once you start racing with other cars on the screen then sorry I'm gonna have a whinge about it and I don't think that's unreasonable at all and yes I'm even accepting the somewhat dated visuals but I am not accepting the poor performance as well, it's that bad it ruins rf2 for me.
Fix that and you will have trouble dragging me away from RF2.

 

[Ben Goymer]

Well since the latest release I've been sucked back in. Racing the howstons at Le Mans is just amazing. Yes the online side is still severely lacking, but for an offline race against the AI rFactor2 will take a lot to be beaten.

 

[Marco Versele]

I feel rF2 is the linux of the race sims. It is that good! I do not have any worries about the future of the sim. At this moment it is my personal favorite and most complete racing sim: 24 hour clock, weather, very good AI, steady MP and pitstops. I do not care about graphics. When i switch from AC to rF2 i think: "Ohhh". But once im in the car racing, the graphics fly out of the window. The only minor point i have is the sound. But besides that: very nice job done by ISI.

Linux is free. rF2 on it's side is one of the more expensive sims (except for simbin's r3e or dtm

 

[Boby Kim]

Linux is free. rF2 on it's side is one of the more expensive sims (except for simbin's r3e or dtm

You are right about the fact that Linux is free and rFactor 2 is not.

 

[Marco Versele]

You are right about the fact that Linux is free and rFactor 2 is not.

I especially like you signature on your profile page!

But I prefer Pamela Anderson's boobs, Trixie Whitley's voice and music, Hilary Clinton's job and salary, Paris Hilton's age, and my wife's sweetness. How do I call the perfect woman in my dreams??

And will I ever be able to have it all?

 

[Tim Meuris]

I especially like you signature on your profile page!

But I prefer Pamela Anderson's boobs, Trixie Whitley's voice and music, Hilary Clinton's job and salary, Paris Hilton's age, and my wife's sweetness. How do I call the perfect woman in my dreams??

And will I ever be able to have it all?

You got to have dreams man!!

 

[Guy Moulton]

What's most disturbing about the future of rF2 is the modding scene. rF2 modding is drying up there are not a lot of WIPs, very few releases and modding teams and individuals are jumping ship- the SS AC has pulled up alongside to pick up the survivors.... AC modding is alive and well

Look at the numbers of mods coming out for AC, it's dizzying. Once the racing is sorted in AC and it's not just a pretty screenshot generator I think rF2 will be all but forgotten by all except endurance leagues. IMHO AC is just not quite there yet, but it's early days and soon they should get the racing rules and dedi server client figured out better. then when they get weather- watch out.

 

[Dino Paolini]

What's most disturbing about the future of rF2 is the modding scene. rF2 modding is drying up there are not a lot of WIPs, very few releases and modding teams and individuals are jumping ship- the SS AC has pulled up alongside to pick up the survivors.... AC modding is alive and well

Look at the numbers of mods coming out for AC, it's dizzying. Once the racing is sorted in AC and it's not just a pretty screenshot generator I think rF2 will be all but forgotten by all except endurance leagues. IMHO AC is just not quite there yet, but it's early days and soon they should get the racing rules and dedi server client figured out better. then when they get weather- watch out.

The modding thing is really disturbing. The couple of recent mods that I've tried so far for rf2 are really great, the URD GT mod for example is a great piece of work . Seeing that many guys are capable of doing that nicely leaves me a bit dissappointed that there is not more coming for rf2, where I see all the mod-announcements for AC recently, especially some tracks that I'm waiting for to have in rf2 for quite a while now.

I hope there is more balance in the future in this regard.
I like the driving part so much more in rf2 compared to the other sims though, it won't be forgotten since it is too good as a racing simulator in general
Just the frustrations of not having some important tracks and race-series available makes it always hard to convince others to have some nice leagues going.