PC1 why is the pCARS forum buried?

[Damage Inc]

Took me a while to find this forum. Was wondering why it's tucked away amongst "old" sims when it's very much a "future" sim?

 

[Damage Inc]

Thing is we all should know that until the tyre development has been finalised there is no point doing too much work on the FFB. Seriously, I am aghast at the inability of some people to grasp the concept of WIP!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that comparing a more finalised game to a less finalised game is not a fair comparison!

I think that almost all WMD members will agree that the FFB is hit and miss at the moment!!! So judging based on that is just daft.

of course these are all my opinions.

I would love to agree with you David but if I do, I get set upon.

Still don't quite get it do you!! You CAN criticise pCARS, you CAN agree with David, just use some tact and construct your arguments like David. That way you'll stop coming across as an utter troll<-my opinion.

 

[Damage Inc]

I got a Laugh out of it I wonder if I am suppose to be Al Capone or something? Since it may very well be me when he is describing as pCARS Mafia. I saw it as an attempt at humor which I think he tries to showcase in his video. You either like it or not.

Yeah that bit of the vid was pathetic if I'm honest and immediately made me question the ability of the vid maker to be even remotely unbiased. It may be defended as "harmless humour"......but seeing as there's a real schism in the community over pCARS it just doesn't help one jot.

Of course what we need is someone who's driven a Z4 at Imola, because for all I know AC has got it wrong.

 

[Damage Inc]

Yep, I just did the same test myself, and unfortunately have to agree with pcars having wonky physics and FFB, though part of the problem is there's so much pendulum effect, that it's no wonder the cars don't feel right and the FFB struggles to maintain fulltime contact.

AC is in another league.

AC is more developed too so to be expected really.

But can you at least acknowledge that ffb will be worked on more once the tyre physics are more finalised?? I realise there's a chicken and egg situation, regarding tyre phsyics and ffb. But surely every sim logically does it in this order. The difference is we are seeing it with pCARS because of it's more open development and other sims kept that stage of development hidden from the masses.

The point I'm making is it's less a case of SMS are doing things wrong because of how pCARS compares to AC, but more a case of IF pCARS was better than AC at this point, Kunos would definitely be getting things wrong.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

I like how pCars is going. It's improving day by day and every time I try a new build I can see the improvements. To be honest, the FFB and physics are getting there too, especially in the beta 1 cars. So I am sure that at some stage they will be great.

I tried the BMW Z4 GT3 yesterday (which is not even beta 1)...the sounds are awesome (best so far in my opinion), the FFB and physics felt good too. The only missing thing I noticed was that I could not feel the car skidding or when under braking. But I am sure this will come one day soon.

Then there is nothing to say about the visuals and the car damage of course I'm really looking forward to the finished product and it's definitely going to be one of the best sims out there.

Of course, this is just my opinion I do own AC, GSC 2013, iRacing and rFactor 2 so I surely can compare between all these.

 

[Chris Partridge]

If giving birth was easy we'd all end up doing it.

 

[RaceNut]

Having been following physics discussions on the WMD forums and the developers have stated again and again, the current FFB is merely there to develop the physics at this point. The real FFB development will be done after the physics are complete. That would suggest that the only fair comparison to the handling in AC would be with FFB turned off in both titles. Even then, it's not a fair comparison at this point as the physics are not yet final.

I think that it is a very valid point that Pcars is under more scrutiny than other titles because of the very early access so many inexperienced people have to the development process - including myself. As I have stated before, after reading more of the physics development threads on the WMD forums, I have faith in the team. They are expending a lot of time and energy to get the details right, consult with racing professionals, get feedback from other Sim-racers, comparing results to real-world data and information and so on.

SMS have stated that the goal is to achieve a very high level of realism in Pcars in all areas - including the physics. They are proving that they have the goods in terms of graphics, sound, damage and more so I don't see why it should be so hard to believe that SMS can do it with the physics of the game. Has anyone who is known to be a "Physics Guru" with a proven track record publicly stated that SMS is doing it all wrong? #1) a true professional will not do that, #2) there are multiple paths in developing car physics, #3) none of those paths are perfect, #4) the physics are WIP, #5) the real FFB isn't even in yet.

I would say to anyone here who is critical of Pcars Physics: if you are so knowledgeable about Sim physics, why are you not giving feedback on the WMD forums? And no, "because they are mean to me" is not a valid answer. And no, I don't have a large amount of money invested in Pcars. I got in for the cost of a typical PC title and I don't have any expectations beyond having another Racing Sim to play when it's complete and perhaps, learning a little about game development so any elaborate theories concerning my personal financial gain are not valid either.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

One does not have to be knowledgeable in simphysics to know whether or not you like the way it is working currently. I don't and while I hope I'm wrong, I don't think SMS neither have what takes to make it feel great (to me) nor are aiming to do so. But as i said i do hope that I'm wrong cos I would not mind having another good Sim to play.

 

[Damage Inc]

One does not have to be knowledgeable in simphysics to know whether or not you like the way it is working currently. I don't and while I hope I'm wrong, I don't think SMS neither have what takes to make it feel great (to me) nor are aiming to do so. But as i said i do hope that I'm wrong cos I would not mind having another good Sim to play.

Initially a good post but then the snidey dig at SMS was childish and unnecessary. Seriously people, why are in incapable of being mature about things? I understand it's all opinions etc etc blah blah, but why post in such an argumentative manner?

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Snidey dig? It's a honest opinion and nothing else. I judge SMS based on the current state of pCars and their previous trackrecord, and based on that I think they are not focused on delivering the kind of racing sim that I am looking for.

Why are you not able to read other peoples opinions that differ from yours without thinking it's a direct attack on you and SMS?
I have no issues looking at pCars and saying that it looks like it's going to be a GREAT racing game, but it's nothing for me (in it's current state). One does not have to be hateful towards something just because one does not enjoy it, which you seem to draw from every comment towards pCars and SMS that ain't direct praise.

I don't think SMS is able to make pCars a sim I will enjoy because they claimed that Shift 2 was a sim with bleeding edge physics, and I found that game to be utter ****.
I don't think SMS are aiming to make pCars a sim that I will enjoy, because the big numbers in terms of players and money simply aren't to be found in that kind of game, it's found in making a great racing game that appeals to the biggest crowd possible, people who will not accept having to spend 50+ laps on a track just to be competitive. And yes, I think the two are mutually exclusive.
That's not something inherently bad though, it's just not the kind of game I'm looking for but I think that's the kind of game SMS are trying to make.

And argumentative manner? I am stating my opinion, I am clearly stating that it IS an opinion as opposed to some others in this thread stating their opinions as facts.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

I don't think SMS is able to make pCars a sim I will enjoy because they claimed that Shift 2 was a sim with bleeding edge physics, and I found that game to be utter ****.

I don't think SMS are aiming to make pCars a sim that I will enjoy, because the big numbers in terms of players and money simply aren't to be found in that kind of game, it's found in making a great racing game that appeals to the biggest crowd possible, people who will not accept having to spend 50+ laps on a track just to be competitive.

Two assumptions.....and remember that they say "assumptions are the mother of ****ups"

If you try pCars regularly and read the WMD forums you can see the progress going on and notice that the game is moving towards a proper sim (you need to try the latest Beta 1 cars of course!!! not some pre alpha car). If they reach the level of a proper sim, I cannot say from now but I don't want to assume...

 

[RaceNut]

In regards to Shift2 physics, SMS have said that they were not happy with the handling in that title but, they were bound by contractual obligations to the publisher. That is one of the reasons why they have chosen to fund and direct Pcars development as they are. As far as Shift2 advertising claims, again - those would have been decisions made by the publisher. It's no different than other Sim-titles now in development, developers must self-publish in order to maintain creative freedom. Publishers are all about making money and games for the masses.

In days gone by, none of us would have had the the opportunity to judge the handling at this point in game development. We are all pretty-much "noobs" when it comes to this new form of early-access game development. Again, anyone not happy with the handling at this point is free to give feedback directly to the developer, no matter what level of physics knowledge you may possess but, doubters gotta doubt, that's what they do.

No matter what Pcars ends of being, it will always have it's detractors. Even the handling of AC is said to be brilliant by some and complete garbage by others. Most are somewhere in between, same with rF2 and iRacing. There are some who can never be satisfied that any Sim can be hardcore enough for them. Who's right - who cares? Play what you like and allow others to do the same but, trying to influence game development publicly when you have direct access to developers makes no sense to me - it's like implementing a Rube Goldberg form of control into a race car.

 

[DrJustice]

...trying to influence game development publicly when you have direct access to developers makes no sense to me - it's like implementing a Rube Goldberg form of control into a race car.

The incessant complainers on here and VR etc. have no intention of influencing the development. It's 42% gloating with 1337'ness, 38% casual bashing, 19% "me too" and 1% sensible but misplaced critique

What was this thread about again?

 

[Andy_J]

Still don't quite get it do you!! You CAN criticise pCARS, you CAN agree with David, just use some tact and construct your arguments like David. That way you'll stop coming across as an utter troll<-my opinion.

I was going to keep quiet but I had to respond to your trolling post. Just who do you think you are to be telling me and others exactly what we can or should be posting in regards to Pcars? Get this, you are just another gamer who likes and has invested in a product. I don't like that product and I am saying so. As have others on here. Just take it because that's how it is. I can test Pcars anytime I want and I'll make comment on it without being bullied by you.

I don't have to use tact and I don't have to construct arguments just to please you and any of the other investors. And yes it is my opinion blah blah blah.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

That is one of the reasons why they have chosen to fund and direct Pcars development as they are.

Another reason could be an attempt to get some/many sim racers onside and also have them advertise the game for free.

One of the forumers from Nogrip{think it was Gears} suggested that pcars have GTR2 physics and epic GFX and was ridiculed by the bulk of the WMD members.....so, yeah, that's probably why many of us don't bother....bearing in mind that GTR2 physics are hardly the pinnacle.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

But can you at least acknowledge that ffb will be worked on more once the tyre physics are more finalised??.

Can you at least acknowledge that I've been fielding these type of questions for nearly 2yrs....yup, it was approx 2yrs ago that many WMDers were talking bollocks about the state of pcars physics etc, and when corrected, they merely asked us to wait for the next round of improvements.

 

[RaceNut]

Another reason could be an attempt to get some/many sim racers onside and also have them advertise the game for free.

I don't think that is so different than "word of mouth advertising" - which is the best kind IMO". To say people are getting paid for that is premature, that has yet to be determined but, I doubt many would have invested had they not had some passion for racing games.

 

[RaceNut]

One of the forumers from Nogrip{think it was Gears} suggested that pcars have GTR2 physics and epic GFX and was ridiculed by the bulk of the WMD members.....so, yeah, that's probably why many of us don't bother....bearing in mind that GTR2 physics are hardly the pinnacle.

That's hard to comment on without knowing how that went down. I can only say that when I have seen something like that happen on the WMD forums, the criticisms of Pcars were of the "Unhelpful and/or disrespectful" type - simply bashing the game, development, etc. Beyond that, the people there seem to be friendly and accepting of suggestions when handled tactfully. One can't blame SMS for wanting to keep a tidy house regarding the forum and game development. They have a job to do and likely have a low tolerance for those who behave in an un-professional or disrespectful manner. I have seen the same things happen on the rF2 forums and elsewhere.

 

[Chris Partridge]

GTR2 used the ISImotor2 engine from ISI -- which powered rFactor. I hardly think it was rubbish physics.

For those who don't know, this is interesting reading: http://imagespaceinc.com/technology/software-engine/

 

[Chris Partridge]

And those who think rFactor's engine is still "rubbish", then read this:
http://drracing.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/how-close-is-close-enough/#comment-69

 

[Deleted member 151827]

Oh no. Now rf2 is thrown into the mix! There are sure to be more fights now!