What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Heppsan]

i dont consider this i sim anymore more like simcade!

suppose you thought shift to realistic too lol

im gonna stop now your plain blindness is frustrating.

bloody fanboys!

When I watch the vid I'm having this to that he is on the carbs or loss of traction, I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Msportdan]

Thank you snappy.. It does feel like theres a deadzone and the wheel then suddenly reacts to the input. In so makes it hard to correct. Im glad someone has noticed this because as someone says i really am thought im going mad. I got a little dis-heartened since my rant i dont want to go against my fellow RRe friends, but i felt noone was really giving my problem the time of day.
I have all but much turned the centre and damping off in the profiler. If it is supposed to be weight transfer should the driver head move like that and not the car? These cars are on hard springs atm imo they feel like they are on road springs.


One thing i did try and does improve my feel, is to have a really low steering ratio as low as 10, to calm down the over input that i feel.

LP@ i have vsync on. I will try this.

Hello all,
I don't get the "boat feeling" but I find that description interesting because, although I am loving all the new updates to R3E, I was getting a.... shall I say, strange disconnected feeling on turn in. It was making it so I was always turning in too much. Like there was a weak steering feel at the center but only for the first 10 degrees or so. Once I would turn in I would invariably have to correct but by then some other FFB affects had kicked in and I was way over correcting and having to turn in again. All this was very subtle and, to make matters worse, was different in just about every corner.
However, I persisted, and read very closely what settings were being recommended in the "Wheel Settings" thread. I want to say thanks to the posting of that thread and the thread that contains the explanations of all the various settings. It has helped immensely and R3E is now my latest obsession SIM. It feels, sounds (the best sounds ever, hands down) and looks awesome. The content is great and I'm very excited about what they (S3) have announced will be coming soon.
I was still getting that weak center spring\awkward turn in feeling and i can't help but think it is the same "thing" that Msportdan is experiencing. I feel that way because even as I exited corners my car control was all screwed up so I would be swerving as I exited corners due to having had such a horrible corner entry/apex/exit. So here is what I did: I changed my damper and center spring settings on my wheel from 0% to 5%. 0% works great for me in iRacing but in R3E it gives me that "floaty" feeling which is horrible on turn in when I run R3E and I believe is somehow exaggerated by all the other wonderful FFB effects that R3E provides. And YES, I have read that turning off center Spring and Damper settings is recommended but that does not work for me. Anyway, the sim feels much better with these settings. To test it I drove the Audi R8 from ADAC GT Masters at the Red Bull Ring and checked my times. I was a full second faster with the new settings on the wheel. BTW, I gained that full second on the first full flying lap. Again, I didn't change anything else in game. I'm sorry to not have all my settings memorized but I will post them here and then have a look later and update/add any I missed. That way all can see what I've done and fell free to discuss and criticize. Here they are:

Wheel: Thrustmaster TX Racing Wheel
Degrees: 900
Spring: 5%
Damper: 5%

In-Game:
540 degrees with 23 wheel lock

I will edit this post soon with the rest of my settings since I am not on my sim rig right now. Sorry.

 

[Le_Poilu]

LP@ i have vsync on. I will try this.

Sure you may ...

 

[SnappyDEe]

I think I have to run VSync at this point. I am on three 39" LCD Screens running it at 48:9 at 5760x1080. It's hard for me to NOT run triple screens. I may try shutting it off but it could be ugly.

 

[SnappyDEe]

@Msportdan, I will be posting all my settings shortly but in the meantime try setting the spring and damper settings to 5% and then play with the steering ratio. I think it might feel better for you that way. I think we are having the same experience but just describing it differently. Give me a few minutes to post up my settings. I'm working on it now...

 

[Le_Poilu]

I think I have to run VSync at this point. I am on three 39" LCD Screens running it at 48:9 at 5760x1080. It's hard for me to NOT run triple screens. I may try shutting it off but it could be ugly.

I don't get the relation between Vsync and Triple screen ...

 

[Msportdan]

put of interest what wheel are you on snappy?

 

[SnappyDEe]

Thrustmaster TX wheel - Fanatec CSP V2 pedals - Thrustmaster TH8 Shifter

Check my other post. I posted all my settings for you, and anyone else who is interested, to compare. Hope it helps. It is a WIP for me but things are definitely getting better.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

why don't i see who disagreed a post?

it's about the natural movement of the car, when you turn the wheel, not the traction-loss corrections like the porsche video a few posts back.

like @Msportdan said several times, if you lower the steering-ratio to ~10 this boaty-effect is almost gone, but pretty much work on the wheel as downside.

 

[SnappyDEe]

I don't get the relation between Vsync and Triple screen ...

I thought turning VSync off might cause graphics issues for me when I read this post by Rupe Wilson:

Vsync: Toggle on/off vertical sync. Vsync synchronizes your FPS with the refresh rate of your monitor. Enabling this can eliminate screen tearing.

 

[Msportdan]

i think you described it better than me snappy, slight floaty feeling around centre is best put it.

 

[Le_Poilu]

I thought turning VSync off might cause graphics issues for me when I read this post by Rupe Wilson:

Indeed, when your GPU is able to push a high frame-rate (higher than the refresh rate of the screen), you may experiment Tearing without Vsync.
But this has nothing to do with Triple-screen.

Vsync when you play on a 60Hz monitor is well know to be the cause of input lag. If your sensible to it, you will need to set Vsync OFF

Sadly R3E has no option for FPS cap (a good way to reduce graphical glitch while Disabling Vsync), so you may need a external soft like Nvidia inspector to do this and disabling vsync for keeping a frame rate close to the refresh rate of the screen.

 

[Msportdan]

i never play wiht sync off as my card is capable of reaching 100s on fps and my 60hz monitir tears badly. My eyes cant take that, but i havent experienced any input lag on any of my games.

 

[SnappyDEe]

I will try VSync OFF and report back. We shall see. I must say, however, that the "floaty" feeling of my wheel around center was definitely a FFB issue and not something graphical. It was a definite "feel" issue and not a optical/graphical issue. I'm certain.

 

[Msportdan]

right okay... im not here to argue that this is that and that is this. But ive noticed something that I THINK is massively contributing to my experience of bad handling.
what that is, ive noticed that in RRe when you turn the wheel (car in motion) and when you turn back to straighten up. The FFB (or whatever) is forcing the wheel back (to centre) harder than what I think really it should.

okay so now your all gonna say turn your centre wheel back option off. Fair enough that's exactly what I thought but as I only have it at 20% its not that strong. How do I know this, because in gsc that's just enough to give me that feel of a car without over powering it back to centre. and this is fine for GSC it doesn't effect how I control the car. But it doesn't snap the wheel back like it does in RRe, it feels more natural.

So I turned it totally off in rre, thinking in excitement this will cure it.....but NO there is something that still tugs the wheel back (maybe trying to mimic tyre traction). This is what I believe is giving me the sway feeling trying to centre the car back. It feels odd to me as if the ffb is trying to create a gforce of the car turning back the other way.....

try it on your wheel..I have dfgt... I messed with lots of setting in FFb and profile and I cant rid this tug back my wheel produces.

this is my theory if whats happening.

 

[Connor Caple]

My wheel no longer feels floaty around the centre, although I did have this problem some weeks ago as you'll see on my thread about the Cruze.

I think it was turning Lateral Force up to 130% in the FFB menu which cured it.

 

[Le_Poilu]

i never play wiht sync off as my card is capable of reaching 100s on fps and my 60hz monitir tears badly. My eyes cant take that, but i havent experienced any input lag on any of my games.

I have to say that I never thought about input lag or anything like that before someone told me about.
I wasn't aware at all, and thought everything great.
But since I've did experiment on this case, and compare my driving with and without Vsync, there's no way I would go back to Vsync ON ... Sadly Vsync ON is the best way to have smooth display (until we have Gsync/Adaptivesync for everybody).
But the driving is so much better... much precise.

There are way to go for Vsync OFF and get rid of tearing:
- Triple buffering => the game has to be coded for
- FPS Caps (if your monitor is 60HZ set a cap to 60FPS). Some game give you the FPS cap option (Asseto Corsa, etc). Not the case for R3E, so you'll need a external soft like nvidia inspector.

I will try VSync OFF and report back. We shall see. I must say, however, that the "floaty" feeling of my wheel around center was definitely a FFB issue and not something graphical. It was a definite "feel" issue and not a optical/graphical issue. I'm certain.

input lag can be felt as a "FFB issue" as what you see on screen is not what you expect when turning your wheel.

 

[Sean Kenney]

I seem to do better with Vsync off. 7790

 

[Msportdan]

right tried vsync off, didn't make any difference that I noticed. I can tell you exactly what it is, I ge ta rather heavy pull when I try to centre the wheel.it pulls me to far off centre.

ive done a quick video (my first posted vid ever) so excuse the quality but it is running at 60fps. take note on back straight(not me pulling the wheel that far back!) at the end of the video and the beginning. where im aggressively turning the wheel. Can anyone see my floaty effect now. This is 540/14 default setup,. and default ffb meaning 100 for most. I don't drive normally like this but Im just showing you, I almost have to fight the wheel to centre it which makes me "sway"

View My Video

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

i think all those tweaks with ffb and vsync are just makeup. but since only 2 people seem to have this problem (atleast i can only see me and msportdan are having this boaty-feeling) and we have both the DFGT wheel, so it MAYBE could be a wheel issue. but that would be the first sim introducing such a difference. a dfgt is not far away from a g27.

I don't own GSC, but as comparsion i can only tell, AC just feels right as it should and how i expect it.