What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Blkout]

18-11-2014
- Increased max FFB vertical value to 400%

Thanks Peter. I thought so.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I just raised mine the other night, was at 175% but now it's at 285% and it feels much better (for my tastes). Under 200 it just feels too floaty in the turns to me, cranking it up gives me the resistance under heavy turning that I like. We all have our own tastes though, I prefer a bit of a heavier wheel but I know a lot of people like a light wheel.

 

[Carlos Sancho]

Thank you @Msportdan @Brandon Wright , dont have toou much time lately, but I think I ended with a decent setup: 30% lateral forces, 150% vertical, around 90% FFB forces and steering forces and on the profiler 80%, 85%, 95%, 0%, 0%.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I think most people suggest that the second and third settings in the profiler (what you have at 85% and 95%) should be left at 100%. The game will adjust those numbers on the fly, so if you have them less than 100% you're limiting the ability of the game to send all data to the wheel.

 

[Carlos Sancho]

You are right Brandon, I set them to 100 and now it feels a little bit more defined/sharpened, but I have to lower the FFB to 75% on the profiler, thank you!!

I am really loving this wheel, F1 wheel + DTM 2014 is simply an awesome combination.

 

[Brandon Wright]

How is that F1 wheel? I'm very interested in it but my budget probably won't allow it for a while.

 

[Msportdan]

I left all the profile settings at 100% and ffb at 80%

In game ver 170 lat 150 under 100 rack 0 ffb 100 force 120

Then again ivebeen through lots of game settings and still cant fix the swayey floaty feel.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I left all the profile settings at 100% and ffb at 80%

In game ver 170 lat 150 under 100 rack 0 ffb 100 force 120

Then again ivebeen through lots of game settings and still cant fix the swayey floaty feel.

I think you generally want the bottom two settings (spring and damper?) at zero in the profiler. Set FFB to taste, periodic and constant at 100, spring and damper at zero, then there's one at the bottom that's grayed out and has 12% and that should stay that way. I also saw someone on here (perhaps in this thread) say that Lateral needs to be low (35%) in order to let more feedback from the road come through the wheel, I tried this and instantly liked it so my lateral will always stay around 35. I'm still a bit unsure about Understeer and Rack, I prefer my understeer low to eliminate floatiness but I can't tell much difference between zero rack and 100 rack or anything in between so I leave that at zero.

 

[Msportdan]

Cheers mate. What vertical value u got?
I'll try This

 

[Brandon Wright]

My vertical is currently in flux, I believe right now it's at 285% and I quite like that but I also prefer a bit of a heavy wheel. I'm going to try the above recommended 350% and see how that feels.

 

[Carlos Sancho]

How is that F1 wheel? I'm very interested in it but my budget probably won't allow it for a while.

I like it a lot, stiffnes of the buttons and how it feels in your hands adds a lot of immersion, I wish it had a display, but for 100€ its more than ok.

 

[Blkout]

My vertical is currently in flux, I believe right now it's at 285% and I quite like that but I also prefer a bit of a heavy wheel. I'm going to try the above recommended 350% and see how that feels.

When you get to 350, you'll begin to feel the road properly. I wouldn't recommend anything less than 300 on a Thrustmaster TX or T300. I can't recall if the T500 needs the same amount but I can test it later.

 

[Msportdan]

just tried 250 didn't like at all, felt way too swayey (felt like fighting the wheel more than the car) more like a boat than ever. back down to 170 for me. liked the 35% lat setting vo.

anyway personal pref and all that ...

 

[Brandon Wright]

Absolutely, we all want/expect different things.

 

[Msportdan]

im sure someone will come and tell me different...

think im settling for

Force 80
Vert 190
Lat 35

taking the force off slightly subdues the sway.

I Like the fact in AC the settings are pretty much great out of the box, with RRE all these settings and I still don't feel totally comfortable with them! Just no feel of traction loss.

 

[Blkout]

just tried 250 didn't like at all, felt way too swayey (felt like fighting the wheel more than the car) more like a boat than ever. back down to 170 for me. liked the 35% lat setting vo.

anyway personal pref and all that ...

Vertical load has nothing to do with sway and everything to do with road feel. Not sure what you adjusted but clearly it wasn't right. You may prefer less road feel which means you've got to hold the wheel tighter when going over road surface imperfections but again, vertical load has nothing to do with sway. I think the issue is you've been using a DFGT for so long that the T300 feels very strong to you. For those of us that have these wheels for a while, your settings are rather tame and dull. I think in the future you will see that in your settings too eventually.

 

[Msportdan]

U didn't put one thing in your opinion.

I know u don't value peoples opinion and think ur always right.

So wont be long.

Higher ver values just makes it feel like ur driving an 80s fiesta or an muscle car. Not a state of the art gt car. But hey u want that old vintage feeling that's fine. I don't.

If u have a strong wheel there's no need to go to 300% but if want that feeling that's your personal preference.

 

[Blkout]

U didn't put one thing in your opinion.

I know u don't value peoples opinion and think ur always right.

So wont be long.

Higher ver values just makes it feel like ur driving an 80s fiesta or an muscle car. Not a state of the art gt car. But hey u want that old vintage feeling that's fine. I don't.

If u have a strong wheel there's no need to go to 300% but if want that feeling that's your personal preference.

I know you complain a lot about every racing game and how they don't feel right to you and you have recently become an expert on FFB and physics since your acquisition of a T300RS wheel a week ago so I'll bow out of this discussion since you obviously don't value my opinion and I'll leave you with this post from Georg Ortner who is the FFB guy at Sector 3. Maybe you value his opinion.

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/wheel-settings-after-update.92742/#post-1808932

"If you want to get more feedback from the road surface increase vertical load."


And FYI, driving race cars are brutal, they're extremely rough on the body. Have you ever been in one? I have been the passenger in a Viper GTS-R and its very violent.

 

[Brandon Wright]

When you get to 350, you'll begin to feel the road properly. I wouldn't recommend anything less than 300 on a Thrustmaster TX or T300. I can't recall if the T500 needs the same amount but I can test it later.

I put my vertical load up to 350 yesterday and really like it. It allowed me to turn my FFB strength down and now it has a much more natural feeling in the corners yet still gets heavy the way I like. Before it felt like it always got the same amount of heaviness in every turn regardless of the characteristics of the turn, now each turn feels different and I can better feel how the weight balance of the car is being effected.

I think previously I was using too much FFB strength to get the weight I like and ended up getting clipping as a result. Now I have the weight with no (or at least a lot less) clipping. I was up around 85-90 on FFB strength and now I'm down to 75 or lower (depending on the car) and still love the feeling/weight.


TL: DR - more vertical load + less FFB strength = more natural feeling IMO (your results may vary).

 

[Msportdan]

Ok that makes sense I'm running 100 ffb and its not realistic to me. However you guys have been turning this down. Is this in game and profiler?

But aren't you just counteracting each value by raising ffb or lowering vert or vice versa.!? I'm running stronger ffb so makes sense y I have lower forces