What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Brandon Wright]

I feel the same about my non-GTE T300 wheel (can't get the GTE bundle in Murica for some reason). The FFB in R3E is vastly improved from what I felt on the Fanatec GT3 RS and it has made the game even more enjoyable. It's a very solid wheel and does not feel like a toy, and I think the physical weight of the wheel helps to provide a pleasing experience. Most of the feelings in the FFB/physics that I didn't like on the GT3 are gone on the T300. My only complaint is that the shift and brake effects are almost non-existent, on my GT3 when I hit the brakes my wheel would actually shake up and down and left and right and I loved that but the T300 just has a minor vibration which is disappointing. On the Fanatec, braking was a serious event that was hair-raising, but on the T300 braking is pretty much a non-event.

And yes, @Msportdan, upgrade your pedals as soon as possible because the stock pedals are rubbish. I jumped on GT6 with some mates last night and had to use those pedals, I had to quit after about 30 minutes because braking was complete guesswork and I had no confidence that I could race cleanly. I normally use CSR Elite's with the load cell, they are fantastic and greatly improved my racing abilities.

I did manage to rectify that ugly PlayStation logo though.

 

[Emilio]

It's a shame Thrustmaster don't sell the T300 wheel separately, or do they?

Looked everywhere. Sadly, nope

 

[James Cook]

If they sold just the wheel and knocked £50 off the price the T300 would be a tempting upgrade for me. I have no use for the pedals as I'm using CSPv2s.

 

[SnappyDEe]

@Msportdan-congrats. Get the Fanatec C sR elite pedals. The best around.

@Brandon - look up Basherboards. They make an adapter that allows you to run the fanatec pedals with consoles.

 

[SnappyDEe]

If they sold just the wheel and knocked £50 off the price the T300 would be a tempting upgrade for me. I have no use for the pedals as I'm using CSPv2s.

It's still a bargain over the TX and purchasing the GTE separately. The. GTE rim alone is well over $100+.

Get it. You will love it!

 

[Brandon Wright]

@Brandon - look up Basherboards. They make an adapter that allows you to run the fanatec pedals with consoles.

Thanks. I kinda doubt I will though, the frame rate/screen tearing on GT6 was terrible and made it hard to stomach. I never noticed those issues when I only played that game, but having been to greener pastures it's hard not to be smacked upside the head by them now.

 

[Msportdan]

@Msportdan-congrats. Get the Fanatec C sR elite pedals. The best around.

@Brandon - look up Basherboards. They make an adapter that allows you to run the fanatec pedals with consoles.

come up with my own little fix for pedals, they are much better now..

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/possible-tx-t300-gte-pedal-mod-fix.99082/

 

[Carlos Sancho]

@Msportdan @Brandon Wright , could you please post your settings for the T300? I'm installing my new wheel today and I cant get a good set up :-( Maybe i am too much used to the G27 feeling.

Thank you in advance guys.

 

[Msportdan]

what do you feel/think is wrong?

all I did was on mine t300 gte, lower brake sensitivity and did my pedal mod above. Helped a lot. FFB wise the wheel is perfect with RRE. (used at 80% in CP)

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'm going off the top of my head here, in game FFB is around 82, FFB effects are 125, understeer is 50, vertical is 285, lateral is 35, throttle/brake/steering sensitivity at 50. Profiler settings are 90 gain, 100 periodic/constant, zero for the last two.

 

[Msportdan]

was gonna ask what do those settings actually do (periodic/constant etc)

 

[django18]

A question about the curbs, are they supposed to be so slippery?
Some curbs can't be used at all. For instance, pretty much all the inside curbs at Nurburg GP or some curbs at Hockenheim (especially the one in the last turn). I've just watched some real life footage of 2014 DTM and they use the curbs (and the last one) quite often.
But I really don't dare touching them, even not coasting.

I actually noticed this aswell. Going over curbs is pretty dangerous in this game. They make the car highly unstable and oversteery. I have no idea how it should be and I don't really know if this is intended, but I'm afraid to even use curbs in raceroom...anyone else with a similar experience?

 

[Peter]

was gonna ask what do those settings actually do (periodic/constant etc)

CONSTANT:
A constant force will keep the same level in time. When a game decides to apply a force of x% of what the wheel can do, the "Constant" will keep that force at the same level.
Example: A driving simulator game will usually use the constant force to simulate the G-Force. It will create a constant force at 0% but, depending on the speed and the wheel angle, the force will be increased accordingly.

PERIODIC:
A periodic force will vary in time according to the type of periodic effect, amplitude and frequency. Because a periodic force includes an offset that has the same behavior as a constant force, some games will create a periodic force and merge an effect they would render for a constant force (like the G-Force) and a periodic effect (bumping road).
Example: A periodic effect gives the shaking effect on the wheel. At high frequency, you will feel it rumble... but in some cases very low frequency are used to create crash effects where the wheel first turns fully to the left, then to the right and then to the left again, before stopping. Of course, that depends on what the game developers decide.

SPRING:
A spring force is a force that increases according to how far you are from a specific position on the wheel. The basic spring force we could think of is a default spring center where the wheel goes back to its center position when you release it. But the force can be set to negative, which will make the wheel go further away from the center position.
Example: Basic spring force where the wheel goes back to its center position.

DAMPER:
A damper force controls how the wheel will react when it's moving. It is usually used as a (dynamic) friction or if you use it while the wheel gets back to its center position (spring effect), then it will behave like controlling the damping on a spring-mass system. A game will usually use the damper force in order to make it harder for the player to turn the wheel while in other circumstance make it feel like if it's very smooth and easy.
Example: Controlling the force you need to apply on the wheel to rotate it.
The SPRING and DAMPER effects are what we call Dynamic Effects, because they rely on information which depends on the wheel (position for spring or speed for damper). The Dynamic Effects are those effects which benefit the most from hardware force-feedback implementation (compare to software) - like in the T500RS - because you want a fast response based on how the player will turn his wheel.

The CONSTANT and PERIODIC effects are what we call Static Effects. Once the game sets them, they act according to the parameters set or modified through time by the game regardless of how the user turns the wheel. The game might adjust them accordingly, but they are not linked directly to the wheel position, speed or acceleration.

 

[Blkout]

The vertical load setting has changed recently I've noticed. It used to go to a max of 200% and now goes to 400%, I find that it operates about the same as it did before, just allowing a slightly finer adjustment than before. Basically the setting is 1/2 as effective as before so I previously recommended vertical load at 175% for the Thrustmaster TX or T300; that should now be 350% to get the same effect and that is the setting I now recommend for the TX and T300. That setting is your "road feel" and very important to how the R3E FFB feels.

 

[Blkout]

was gonna ask what do those settings actually do (periodic/constant etc)

Leave them at 100% and never change them. I've never seen any racing game that benefitted from lowering them. Depending on the game, some rely more on the Constant setting, some on the Periodic setting. The Spring and Damper settings have far less impact and many people run them at 0%. Spring seems to affect Test Drive Ferrari Racing Legends and Project CARS pretty heavily, otherwise I've seen no other games that use the spring setting that I can recall.

 

[Msportdan]

Thanks guys especially Peter for that excellent describtion!!

cheers

@blk its always gone to 400%

 

[Blkout]

Thanks guys especially Peter for that excellent describtion!!

cheers

@blk its always gone to 400%

I don't believe that's the case unless someone from Sector 3 tells me otherwise. That being said if I'm wrong about it, then they made the slider much less sensitive because 175% use to be extremely effective, and coincidentally 175% does almost nothing on a TX/T300 wheel and now it takes twice the amount to get the same effect.

 

[Peter]

Thanks guys especially Peter for that excellent describtion!!

cheers

@blk its always gone to 400%

18-11-2014
- Increased max FFB vertical value to 400%

 

[nancyras]

I don't believe that's the case unless someone from Sector 3 tells me otherwise. That being said if I'm wrong about it, then they made the slider much less sensitive because 175% use to be extremely effective, and coincidentally 175% does almost nothing on a TX/T300 wheel and now it takes twice the amount to get the same effect.

I can't confirm that with my T300. I had my vertical load slider at 100% and just tried it with 350% and that is way to harsh. I have set it to 150% for now, and it is still very present. Might depend on the car though.

 

[Msportdan]

i have that for my t300, anything over is too much.