Sill not convinced DSP is necessary because we are talking about tactile vibrations not sound which is mastered in a very specific way for an ideal sound and your room, speakers etc. cause deviations away from that.
A car will also have resonant frequencies just like our rigs and different cars are made out of different materials again the same as our rigs. I can tell you from riding different material bicycles steel, aluminium, carbon fibre and titanium all feel different and react differently to road vibrations so smoothing those out seems counterintuitive to me.
Personally switching from steel box to aluminium extrusion the latter is just as good with transmitting tactile. Though not a direct comparison given the main unit is further from the chair on the back of the rig but is also a Thumper vs. Gamer 2, the rig also only has 4 contact points (the feet) as opposed to the whole of my old one being on the floor. It produces more than enough tactile though, had to turn the Thumper right down!
One thing I did notice though on the old rig, when I had it straight on the carpeted wooden floorboards I felt much more tactile than when I put it on a thick foam gym mat to stop sound travelling below. I can see isolating from the floor being necessary but again isolating parts of the rig surely is the opposite of how we feel vibrations in a car as it dissipates through it?
Hi, help me as regards DSP why are you not convinced, what have you tried to do?
Why also is your main unit further from the chair and not directly connected to it? You realise in the scenario you mentioned
"you had to turn the thumper down", that this could be improved as its probably a direct result of those units operating character being really strong with a "specific Hz range." You could potentially better control/reduce these yet help boost or better feel other frequencies for added detail.
On My Mind
Okay so, I'm just sharing here in a blog style, let's cover some things that don't get much proper discussion.
For me, the whole point of the DSP is being able to alter the output of the tactile unit
with more control as the primary benefit.
This can be to avoid piston pang issues, reducing or eliminating "pinging/ringing" in some metals or the "noisy reverb" boxy sensation in some others like plastics/wood. However it can also be used to suit a felt mood the user is in or feeling. Or a scenario, examples: "turned up to 11" or perhaps the opposite, "late at night" with others in bed.
Testing Is Key To Discovery
For testing cockpit used materials, a user can use frequency sweeps to feel how or what specific Hz may react with the materials installed. Keep in mind each Hz has its own unique signature, we see this by studying Cymatics and for me personally it is a rather fascinating and incredible science.
To say that "DSP is not necessary" is to then say it has little or no benefits. Is this true or false, or what are the determining factors?
Tell Me Why This Hasnt Already Happened?
I think a group of 8020 owners should start their own research and jointly share findings or opinions.
That could be really good not just for the tactile installation or how certain units may suit specific DSP settings but also this big area for some in the isolation or vibration suppression.
@Furnace Inferno, your comment reminds me of a similar comment Berney Villers used and said the same. Yet frankly, I don't think he is interested in pursuing the very best possible tactile immersion possible, not like some of us here may want to.
Please note, however and I am not bashing here, he has a company, and his own commercial interests to protect and consider. Neither does he want to recommend to people ways or tools that could bring even more confusion by people not understanding things? Which in truth they then could easily make the immersion worse with poor settings or controls they don't quite understand. The end result being more headaches for him and the company to deal with. I can see why he himself would play down DSP but because he said it and others have seen it does not prove it is or is not beneficial.
You, could be correct based on what you have tried. As this does not mean every tactile model and installation would benefit the same from DSP or that each person will share the same value in what it may or may not do. However, we have to look at all the factors and what people use, or do. I would be confident I could help you discover improvements...
Some tactile units you gain little change by increasing the db of specific Hz as the unit cant go beyond the point of its own performance abilities and limitations. Often its not just about boosting but also limiting. However to say features like wattage limiter, crossover control, slope control, gain, parametric EQ, and also dynamic EQ bring
"unconvincing" benefits or improvements is not what I personal experience have or could agree with.
Example Of My Own DSP Testing
I can change the feel and generally felt immersion of how "tactile effects" are represented with different iNuke DSP profiles. Each bringing like a "different mood" to the felt experience. Such changes can be used for the
"turn it to the max" or
"midnight" type scenarios.
I experimented in this having already in the past made "midnight" settings just as I have settings for better enjoyment with "music" tactile immersion.
So by doing 3 new specifically set DSP settings for iNuke for cars what could be achieved?
These were to bring a more aggressive sensation each time and I called them. "Sport" / "Track" / "Race". Each used different settings within the DSP to form a pre-tested sensation for a soft/medium/hard usage of the tactile being used. In a sense yes it replicates the idea of what many modern real cars offer in engine/suspension changes to their operation.
With this all done, then the idea was using the same effects and settings within the tactile software (SSW or Simvibe). So no changes to them being done and their output was only being altered by the 3x iNuke DSP profiles being selected. The fourth option was to have it off completely and only the output from "SSW or Simvibe) amplified like any traditional amp.
Too Hard Too Soft Just Right?
Clearly, I felt big changes in how each mode could be described in the sensations and energy felt. This was no surprise as the settings used were very different. Yet what each person would prefer, might be different and I tell you why.
Some people want a heavy or harsh hard-hitting tactile, really impacting bumps and rawness to the engine. Others want reasonable depth or detail but in a more controlled way. Yet someone else may want a refined softer, relaxed response in general with focus on mid-bass and finer detail not pulsating bumps or constant engine effect ripping through their whole body.
Much of what a person prefers may be related to the types of car they use to race the most. Also then what felt sensations or immersion from the tactile to them personally may represent how or what suits their preference for these personal favorites.
One Fit For All?
Based on feedback from people doing testing I think we have two elements here....
One is within the effects creation and settings used in SSW or say Simvibe.
How we can use these yet very few have really sought to push what is possible towards car profiles and individual sensations bring more aparent from car - car.
The other is matching to the user's personal factors. Their preference, their scenario, their mood.
For example, seeking to persure the differences that "car profiles" themselves could or should have. Taken into account the very nature of one car to another could be very very different. Yet why would the effects used/controls be much the same but only altered by the higher/lower respective telemetry values each would generate?
Missing Potential?
Why would we not pursue to replicate more, within the actual generated effects. Sensations that would feel more suited to represent the actual being driven cars performance and handling characteristics. Which then are altered by the respective telemetry values from the physics generated that each car has?
Yet today ask most people, they will use one or two main sets of profiles for "ALL CARS" in Simvibe. They will tweak settings, to have these offer what feels personally best to them, not necessarily the type of car being driven.
Advantages / Disadvantages
What I discovered was, while iNuke DSP was ideal for "Scenarios" and "Moods" its not practical over multiple amps. Its possible certainly to have different DSP settings in iNuke for "Car Profiles" but really we can get better direct results by creating specific ".wav effects" (waveforms) in how SSW operates to then suit better a way to replicate potentially very different cars.
Even with these, a user yes can still use the iNuke DSP but how I have in the past and would still explain things is like this.....
We can best use the iNuke DSP to match or control the tactiles "Character" for the "Personal Mood", "Personal Scenario" or "Used Source". We then can use ".wav effects" and shape these much better than Simvibe "tone generation" to represent and control individual effects for "Specific Cars" and the telemetry values different cars may generate.
What I can tell you and I argued is that SimXperience brought Simvibe, yet they made a real mess of how it was explained, understood, used and never produced any "Professional Car Profiles" internally by themselves which I find just totally bizarre.
Basic / Advanced / Experimental
We can take "tactile immersion" so much further today than it currently is but also importantly make it much better understood and simplified. To then appeal to more people yet also accommodate those seeking to push the boundaries. Not all people will want high end or additional hardware things to contend with, just a simple plug and play experience with affordable hardware that still greatly enhances their enjoyment and immersion.
Most of my own time here is responding to such people in PM but I have seen a trend read recommendations I have made and place their money/trust in that and seek to spend a bit more or with a longer term better installation.
What I would say is that discussions and ideas are happening to improve that here at RD forums but really no racing channel or set of forums actually does or covers tactile properly. Appealing to the beginner and also the enthusiast minded.
