Seeking Advice for First Build of a Sim Racing Rig

[acnomad]

First time poster here. I have never had a sim racing rig, so I am seeking advice before taking the plunge.

My goal is to improve my real-life track driving. I have a 2015 BMW M3 (F80) that is essentially 100% stock, which I drove 50K miles on regular roads over five years before finally putting it through its paces at Sebring a couple times. With work and travel, I don't have the time to go to the track frequently enough to achieve real continuity or momentum in the learning process. Simulation seems like the obvious solution.

Based on what I've read and seen so far, here's what I know (or think I know) about what is needed for a high-fidelity sim racing rig:

1. A solid chassis that is flex free. It appears that units constructed from 80mm or 120mm aluminum stock fit the bill. I have considered ASR, Trak Racer, 6 Sigma, and Sim Lab so far.
2. Accurate pedal feedback. Heusinkveld Ultimate+ seems to be a good choice.
3. Sufficient resistance capability in the wheelbase. Simucube 2 Pro looks like it will do the job.
4. Sufficient refresh rate in the monitor. 140Hz seems to be the minimum, with 240Hz preferred.
5. Stick. Everything in this area looks like it gets the job done, but nothing appears to simulate the feel of a real shifter in a car. The Moza HGP or Fanatec Clubsport SQ V 1.5 seem OK.
6. Immersion considerations. Three monitors vs. a single 49" unit, VR, haptic feedback, and even keeping the option open to add motion in the future. I don't know much about these things, but was thinking I would begin with a single monitor mounted directly to the chassis.
7. Future-proofing. I would be keen to design the rig in such a way that any improvements that come along in the future can be easily made.

Perhaps the biggest question: Is a properly designed sim racing rig an effective tool to get better at driving in real life? If so, am I on the right track in my planned components so far?

Along the same lines: How close can I get a sim rig to feel like the F80? Is the software (iRacing, Assetto Corsa, etc.) capable of doing this accurately?

And, needless to say, I want to be sensible about the financial impact of the project, which looks like it will exceed USD 5,000. Obviously, I would be happy to spend less, so any thoughts in that regard would be appreciated.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Well,

to pull this tooth first (German expression foe "squashing hope")

no working man´s salary will make it feel even remotely like your car

Big but, you can train yourself to work with different sensations the same way you work with your car. (had this conversation about 3years ago with @blekenbleu and he was right about all of it.

Stiff profile rig check

Simucube2 xx check

Heusinkveld Ultimate+ are really nice, but are they 500€ nicer than the Sprints?
(I own them both Ultis are even smoother than Sprints, but I upgrade for higher brakeforce which you don´t need to simulate your car.)

H-Pattern: huge differences here
dump Fanatec for lack of reliability forgo the lower end stuff for lack of force and feel.
I own the VNM Shifter, ok for the 200€ it cost me.
It´s ok while driving in anger, a highend shifter with realistic feel will set you back a set of PS4S

For car feel absolutely triple screens, peripheral vision gave me my intuitive countersteering back when I graduated from single monitor.
VR is rumored to be even better but needs a kickass PC and constant tinkering

And for "tactile drivers" like a tactile system is like FFB for butt and feet.
I can drive by the feel of brake slip and wheel slide like in the real world.

For your info:

I started sim driving to get better on the Nordschleife in my GT86, then things changed a lot after Covid hit. A lot of my car budget went into the sim and now I do a lot of online racing, it even brought me in contact with data analysis

 

[Emery]

First time poster here. I have never had a sim racing rig, so I am seeking advice before taking the plunge.

My goal is to improve my real-life track driving. I have a 2015 BMW M3 (F80) that is essentially 100% stock, which I drove 50K miles on regular roads over five years before finally putting it through its paces at Sebring a couple times. With work and travel, I don't have the time to go to the track frequently enough to achieve real continuity or momentum in the learning process. Simulation seems like the obvious solution.

Based on what I've read and seen so far, here's what I know (or think I know) about what is needed for a high-fidelity sim racing rig:

1. A solid chassis that is flex free. It appears that units constructed from 80mm or 120mm aluminum stock fit the bill. I have considered ASR, Trak Racer, 6 Sigma, and Sim Lab so far.
2. Accurate pedal feedback. Heusinkveld Ultimate+ seems to be a good choice.
3. Sufficient resistance capability in the wheelbase. Simucube 2 Pro looks like it will do the job.
4. Sufficient refresh rate in the monitor. 140Hz seems to be the minimum, with 240Hz preferred.
5. Stick. Everything in this area looks like it gets the job done, but nothing appears to simulate the feel of a real shifter in a car. The Moza HGP or Fanatec Clubsport SQ V 1.5 seem OK.
6. Immersion considerations. Three monitors vs. a single 49" unit, VR, haptic feedback, and even keeping the option open to add motion in the future. I don't know much about these things, but was thinking I would begin with a single monitor mounted directly to the chassis.
7. Future-proofing. I would be keen to design the rig in such a way that any improvements that come along in the future can be easily made.

Perhaps the biggest question: Is a properly designed sim racing rig an effective tool to get better at driving in real life? If so, am I on the right track in my planned components so far?

Along the same lines: How close can I get a sim rig to feel like the F80? Is the software (iRacing, Assetto Corsa, etc.) capable of doing this accurately?

And, needless to say, I want to be sensible about the financial impact of the project, which looks like it will exceed USD 5,000. Obviously, I would be happy to spend less, so any thoughts in that regard would be appreciated.

You've done proper research on most of those items and are well aware of where you're lacking knowledge, so I'll try to fill in the holes.

5. The Bash Pro Active Shifter is the one that is probably what you're looking for today if money is no object.

Long time users of the Fanatec Clubsport SQ know that it annoyingly loses calibration in the H-shifter mode and misshifts in the long term. There seems to be no permanent fix, though many have tried. Consequently, I now believe the TH8A is really the mid-range answer for an H-shifter.

6. Here's the best comparison of a single ultrawide vs. triple screens. Many people think VR is the way to go instead of screens, but it sounds like you've already decided on screens.

My personal opinion is that triple 4k TVs are the way to go, but that comes with a high price tag. It's not only the video card & screens that raise the price tag, but the required monitor stand for large format screens is spendy.

7. Future-proofing for more than a couple years is nigh impossible if you're constantly seeking to be at the top of the curve. Curbing your enthusiasm for newer & better is difficult!

 

[acnomad]

no working man´s salary will make it feel even remotely like your car

Big but, you can train yourself to work with different sensations

Not even remotely? I was hoping that it would be akin to the difference between a flight simulator and an airplane, which is considerable, but the simulator still teaches you plenty without incurring the risk and expense of making mistakes in the actual aircraft.

Ultis are even smoother than Sprints, but I upgrade for higher brakeforce which you don´t need to simulate your car

Good tip. I certainly don't want to spend money that I don't have to.

VR is rumored to be even better but needs a kickass PC

Yes, I won't have the computing power for VR.

a tactile system is like FFB for butt and feet

Any specific suggestions?

 

[acnomad]

The Bash Pro Active Shifter is the one that is probably what you're looking for today if money is no object.

Thanks for this suggestion. There goes another grand.

Many people think VR is the way to go instead of screens, but it sounds like you've already decided on screens.

This would be a future upgrade for me, as I don't have the computing power right now.

 

[Elaphe]

I would not buy a commercial rig. They may look beautiful but I think it's more intelligent to design and build it yourself with slot profiles. You will save money and obtain much more freedom to modify it, expand it and adapt it to what you need now or tomorrow. I made mine with 45x45 and 45x90, heavy type.

As regard the steering wheel's base I would choose Simucube 2, maybe because I am a very happy Simucube 1 owner. The rim itself is much personal preference. I like real steering wheels, rounded, with my own paddle shifters.

Pedals... well there are so many options nowadays that it's really crazy. I've been using the HE Sprints for some years. Not the best finish or reliability, but they felt fine and are not very expensive. For an upgrade I considered the Ultimates, but it didn't make much sense because they are more or less the same but with more strength, which I don't need. I also considered the Simtrecs, which look really high end, but it's again traditional elastomers. So I purchased the SRP GTR, which are pneumatics, feel superb and the looks and finishes cannot be better.

I cannot tell you too much about H shifters. I don't like them too much and most of the models available are not very realistic and sturdy. The quality of the simulation of H shifting is even worse, so that's why I decided to use only paddles plus a sequential stick (Prosim).

Forget about one monitor, even ultrawides. Triples or VR? It's again personal preference. Triples may be more comfortable for long driving sessions, don't isolate you from the real world and offer great FOV. On the other hand, VR offers much better immersion and realism (real dimensions and real depth of view). VR headsets, however, are still heavy, hot, somewhat uncomfortable and bulky (some more than others). Some offer very good picture quality but not like 3 4k screens (yet). Some have amazing FOV (Pimax) but not so good picture quality. MY choice is VR, now and for the future. Triples require too much space and they feel boring once you have tried VR. As far as I know the hardware requirements of triples and VR are more or less the same, depending on the resolution of the headset and the monitors.

Shakers through telemetry are a must. You don't have to spend a fortune and they add a lot of immersion, specially when attached to your seat.

Motion is amazing too, but expensive. I wouldn't consider it as priority if you are on a budget. There are many solutions in the market. I chose a seat mover (NJMotion Compact R) and I'm very happy with it, specially combined with VR and shakers. It offers short and precise movements which add a lot of immersion and the simulation feels much more alive. Moreover, unlike other systems, it's very easy to install, doesn't require a lot of space and it is fast and reliable because it only has to withstand the weight of you and your seat, not the whole rig.

 

[acnomad]

think it's more intelligent to design and build it yourself with slot profiles.

Without doing any analysis, I presume that the aluminum and hardware would be more than half the cost of a commercially available chassis. Is that about right?

 

[Elaphe]

Maybe not half the price but I'm sure you will save some cash. After all these years, I would consider something more important than money: buying a commercial rig is the easy way; building your own is the fun way. It also depends on other factors: do you have time and want a hobby (spent as much time developing your rig as driving) or do you just want to have a rig and spend all your time driving?

 

[Beef36]

Without doing any analysis, I presume that the aluminum and hardware would be more than half the cost of a commercially available chassis. Is that about right?

In my experience, if you're only building one rig and you have no prior experience, then the buying an "off-the-shelf" sim rig chassis is the lower cost, and simpler option.

Similar to pedals and wheels, there are so many sim rig chassis options available now and most are very robust. If you stick to any of the bigger name chassis makers (and many smaller ones), you'll do fine.

In relation to screens, this Youtube video helps visualise why sim racers prioritise increased horizontal FoV via a super-Ultrawide or Triples, as it increases the sense of speed and thus immersion, as well as situational awareness.

However once the triples are so wide that it covers your horizontal view, then you want to increase vertical resolution to continue to increase immersion.

That is why the preferred triple screen aspect ratio is 16:9; because it provides more vertical immersion over triple ultrawides (21+:9).

- Perception of speed changes with field of view

 

[stigs2cousin]

If you want to do it right once I´d go four channel tactile.

One one the brake pedal brake slip / maybe ABS when communicated by the sim´s telemetry,
one on the footplate for wheel slip front and (some) road feedback aka bumps and curbs,
one under the seat for wheel slip and road feedback, one on back of the seat for engine and shift feedback.

Around 50€ buys usable shakers around 50 watts, two bigger one under seat and feet would be an improvement.

If you have an old AV receiver with discreet 5.1 / 7.1 input you could use that for first tries.
(though I never upgraded from that )

Be warned these systems are very audible and can transmit annoying vibrations into the floor.
Against the spreading vibrations there are solutions like isolating the complete rig or parts of it but that´s when things get complicated. On the plus side isolation improves the performance of the tactile, but if you live in a solitary house with no chance to annoy the neighbors it can come later.I live in a flat with concrete ceilings and had to isolate to pacify my next door neighbour . (Simple first step was to use the normal feet of the rig and put springs between foot and rig.) isolation of footplate and seat improved performance further but had it´s own challenges to cope with flex by brake forces)

And the DIY approach has it advantages when you know what you want, I build a rig stiffer and much more versatile for a little less than a P1X would have cost me.
But it was my second run, the first was build from used profile given to me by a friend.
It took almost two years of tinkering to know what I wanted and to design my own.

So if it´s viable to copy a commercial design and safe money on the way depends on how much time you want toi spend with it and what that time is worth to you.

 

[acnomad]

buying a commercial rig is the easy way; building your own is the fun way.

Typically, I would go for the DIY (fun way), but in this case, I may opt for the easy way, as time is the more precious commodity to me right now.

 

[acnomad]

Refining my plans, based in large part on the great advice received so far, here is my revised build, with budget:

1. Chassis: 120mm, probably Trak Racer TR120 or Advanced Sim Racing ASR-4. USD 800.
2. Pedals: Heuskvind Sprint 3-pedal set. USD 730.
3. Wheelbase: Simucube 2. USD 1380.
4. Shifter: TBD (looks like Bash Pro Active shifter is not available - what's the next best choice?)
5. Visuals: Triple Monitor or VR for visuals.
6. Immersion: I still need a lot of help with haptic feedback. Any suggestions (especially specific ones) would be appreciated.
7. Future-proofing: Might not be feasible, but I'd like to do the best I can.

 

[stigs2cousin]

For the tactile route I hope you like DIYing, I don´t know of any usefull/ worth the money commercial offerings. (And yes, that includes "Slip Angle")

For a very extensive overview Peter is the man ( and it´s always his fault )
Don´t be intimidated by his installation, he´s even more crazy than most of us

Rig Report - Peter Winkler

next potential project :) Don't forget a virtual pine tree for us VR users.

www.racedepartment.com

You could ask him for an invitation to "Good Vibrations" Discord server, best tactile resource ever.

Basics:
(and I would get the rig running first, tactile is a very good second step)

The Sprint brake pedal works well with a BST-2, I mounted it with angle aluminium, but cable ties are rumored to work fine for some time

Depending on how you mount your Sprints ( I have the pedals mounted directly to the profil and a heel rest separatly on standoffs it´s easy to put one shaker under the heel rest (Aurasound for me, will probably not work with the OEM Heusinkveld mounting plates because of resonances in the sheet metal.)

Depending on your seat, bucket seats can have shakers bolted or 3m ed ( See "Good Vibrations" ) directly to the surface.
I´m using a reclinable street car Recaro which makes things more complicated:
an Aurasound is bolted to the plastic seat pan inside the metal frame, a Puck is hidden in the foam of the back rest.

Both foot plate and seat are isolated with springs and rubber parts with an anti brake flex solution for the seat, but this would a second stage task.

For amp suggestions see "Good Vibrations" as stated above I still use my "temporary solution" a capable Yamaha 5.1 AV receiver (130watts a channel, more than necessay for my shakers and it coast 20€ on the german Craigslist. And it´s so old it could fail every day or work forever)

You´ll need an USB sound card to get the signal to the amp(s) don´t use your mother board audio.

Most people here use Simhub as the "Software to rule them all" for me it does tactile, dashboard, fouth screen leaderboard and LED flags.
Simhubs "canned effects" are fine if you just want to drive, but frowned upon by the Diehards because "with layered effects you can reach so much more immersion"
The slip and road effects do the job of communicating the car behaviour, probably I could get closer to making it feel like the real car but I value driving more than tinkering with DSP´s.
Peter managed to replicate a Porsche GT3 very, very closely, but than he had real car data and more money in tactile than I in my whole rig ( with Simucube and Ultimates)
Not to mention years of his life dedicated to the task

TL;DR:

get your rig driving first and then wonder about tactile

(OH, and depending on your plans regarding seat belts and seat isolation maybe spec a belt tower from the beginning. For me thats two 80/40 profiles standing upright at the end of my rig which strengthen the seat with a horizontal 40/40 against bending because of street car seat and 80kgs of brake pressure and also my harnes is mounted to them)

 

[acnomad]

For visuals, would three of these be good? Price seems too good to be true.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1697059-REG/samsung_ls32bg652enxgo_g75t_32_240hz_qhd.html

 

[Emery]

Nobody has mentioned a button box. You'll definitely want one because reaching for the keyboard while you're driving is annoying. If you go the VR route, then you'll need to find the right button by feel. If you use monitors, then a sensible visual layout is all you need to consider.

 

[Emery]

For visuals, would three of these be good? Price seems too good to be true.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1697059-REG/samsung_ls32bg652enxgo_g75t_32_240hz_qhd.html

Price is right, unlikely anyone would say no to Samsung. So VA panel and curved screen are the only things to quibble over. I'm not in favor of either of those, but this is where you'll find opinions all over the map and seeing the monitors in person (or at least representative samples of a curved VA screen) would help you decide.

 

[Ruttman98]

If you want an easy, no fuss option, buy from Sim-Lab or Advanced Sim Racing (ASR). Either maker offers specialized mounting plates which the T-slot aluminum manufacturers cannot match. The plates make for a sturdier, cleaner build and typically minimize the number of fasteners required. (Good allen head fasteners and quality T-nuts get expensive quickly.)

I you have a Micro Center store near you, check out Sim-Lab rig and monitor stand options in person. If you can stand John Deere green, the Tony Kanaan (TK) versions might be a bit cheaper. My local MC has $200 off on the P1-X:

https://www.microcenter.com/product/643692/sim-lab-p1-x-sim-racing-cockpit

My current rig configuration uses an ASR wheel deck. If I were starting from scratch, I would likely buy from them as they offer customization options, pricing is good with North American shipping included (for orders over X amount), and delivery was fast (from Canada to the U.S. Midwest.)

Trak Racer is not bad--just not as good in my opinion as the other big players. I have an intense dislike for the Trak Racer corner connectors with small access holes and their sharp, fiddly, spring-blade T-nuts. That said, the core of my highly adjustable profile pedal plate is Trak Racer castings, and I also added one of their wheel decks to one of the interations of my DIY profile rig. The black profiles are nice and the black powder coating on their hardware is very good (the red items are OK), but I prefer the industrial look of clear anodized aluminum.

If you decide to go with Simucube, VRS, Simagic, or Asetek direct drive wheel, HRS and SimCore from Australia make some super adjustable, great looking albeit pricey wheelbase mounts to add to any profile rig. ASR also has a premium adjustable wheel deck I would be tempted to add especially if you have people of different heights using your rig. RC Heliguy just added one to his already optimized rig, although he did so to facilitate switching from racing to flying mode.

I also highly recommend adding tactile to your build A key part of this is one or two mini amps with DSP 4-6 exciters mounted to a fiberglass/carbon fiber shell type seat along with properly isolated bass shakers (one mounted to the seat bottom, and one on the pedal plate*) and a Behringer DSP amp capable of powering them. Be patient and you will find an expired, lightly used seat like the one in your track car. BE SURE TO SIT IN ANY SEAT BEFORE BUYING! (I have a beautiful Recaro Pole Position seat which fits my bottom but the side wings are too narrow for my shoulders so I had to buy a MOMO instead.

Consider also the adjustability required for your seat. Getting your initial seating position right is a chore, and quality mounts are essential to gettinh it right. I use Motomec adjustable plates which offer a wide range of height and rake adjustment:

Universal Side Seat Mounts - 6 Piece Mounting Brackets

Motamec universal alloy 6 piece side mounting seat brackets - 5mm alloy. Universal fitting, fits most side mount race seats - Sparco, OMP, Cobra, MOMO, Corbeau etc. Slotted adjustment lower bracket, for fine seat adjustment Black anodized finish...

motamec.com

If it's just you, this can eliminate the need for a slider, although it can aid ingress/egress.

Before going the full motion rig route, I would add a seat belt tensioner such as the SimXperience G-belt.

*Depending on which pedals you select, you might forego the pedal plate shaker if the pedals have haptic capabilities or you add similar units for road effects, ABS, etc.

 

[acnomad]

If you want an easy, no fuss option, buy from Sim-Lab or Advanced Sim Racing (ASR)

I definitely want to hit the "Easy Button" on this. Sim-Lab has been very responsive to my emails. ASR, less so, but others have recommended them. Thanks for pointing out the difference in hardware associated with Trak Racer.

Before going the full motion rig route, I would add a seat belt tensioner such as the SimXperience G-belt

Is this to feel the effects of braking? Sounds like a great idea.

 

[stigs2cousin]

It´s easy to get distracted in this stage

I strongly recommend to stay with basics (rig, wheel base, pedals shifter and seat) for stage one. Button box depends on choice of wheels, do you want it separately as "center console" which is my choice or attached to/integrated into the wheel?

Stage two tactile already needs build time and settings tinkering, same with belt tensioners, let alone motion.

If I was you I´d build the rig in stage one (base) configuration.
Then drive a while and figure out what´s missing.
Now would be the time to think about "Good Vibrations)

 

[acnomad]

I strongly recommend to stay with basics (rig, wheel base, pedals shifter and seat) for stage one. Button box depends on choice of wheels, do you want it separately as "center console" which is my choice or attached to/integrated into the wheel?

Good advice, and exactly what I am intending to do. However, I'm keeping these other ideas in mind just to make sure I don't assemble something that limits the future ability to add the refinements. So to start, I'm buying just a chassis and the three control devices, along with PC upgrades to support the triple monitors.

I have not thought much about button boxes yet. Is this a must-have to begin, or something to be added later?