Season 9 - General Discussion

[Jonas Lex]

Silly me for not suggesting Kennett's track. Cicada? Did I spell that right?

Yes defenitely, great track
That could be the "Fantasy GP"

 

[David Turnbull]

jonas the problem isnt wether we want or need a division 2, its that theres not enough people to fill another division so its not a choice at the moment, as soon as there is enough drivers then division 2 will happen again like it has before.

regards the diffrent driving views in each division i think this is a bad idea, in the past presto division 1/2 have used a promotion/relegation system so that if anyones too good for divison 2 they move up when they win or likewise with anyone not good enough for division 1 they'd drop down, what would happen if the guy who wins division 2 wins it with swingcam or bonnet view then suddenly hes not allowed to use it when hes promoted and has no choice but to use cockpit, thats unfair in my opinion, he would be looking at learning a whole new driving style in a mod thats unforgivable.

regards the percentage of damage i think thats a good idea, our 70% in division 1 and like 50% in division 2, but there really shouldnt be a huge diffrence between divisions, the format should remain roughly the same so as to help keep the rules and everyones way of thinking on the same wavelength.

the above is all just useless anyhoo seeing as weve nowhere near enough drivers to fill anything except division 1.

tracks im happy to go with whatever is decided, i like the ones being used for next season, i like the idea of silverstone arena version, thats a great track, but whatever we use ill be there.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I have the Korea GP in my archives. It's simple but close enough for the real life track to be raced in. I actually like that track. Didn't find any faults the last time i tested it.

EDIT: It's still in NoGrip too: http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=29971

 

[Reik Major]

Did you make it on your own or a legal conversion? It must be legal, then I'd be happy to have another new real F1 track to race on.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Did you make it on your own or a legal conversion? It must be legal, then I'd be happy to have another new real F1 track to race on.

It's should be legal and is scratch built AFAIK. http://speedracingstudio.netii.net/ is the authors webpage so i have nothing to do with it. There are minor elevation differences with the real life track but fortunately it's only on the longest straight, all the corners are pretty close to real life. Readme says something about up/down corners not done, i don't know what he is referring to.

 

[Anthony Ishak]

Many great tracks to race on for next season but as usual i always prefer a new track to fill the option tracks of the calendar ..Peter normally picks the perfect ones ..

I have one request for next season regarding the qualy format:

Is it possible to adjust the superpole format? it is fun for sure but i am finding it a bit hard to get used to it , it is not working for me so i almost start giving up on going out at all..

what i am suggesting is to have a 10 minutes shoot out session , like the real F1 Q3 session but with invisible cars on track , se we have at least 2-3 tries to get a perfect lap...

just a suggestion for something a bit different !

Anthony

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I'm awful in superpole too... Usually end up a sec behind PB or more. Mostly it's because of the practice starts, hard to flip my mind to kamikaze mode after driving few laps very carefully. One more challenge. But the current system seems to be the best overall since we can't do those very important practice starts after qualy.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Jonas: I have no problem with you suggesting ideas, I just hope you do not mistake my frank and direct style as being unfriendly, because that is not my intention. So please know that even though I disagree with you I respect your views and ideas

I do not doubt that you might get more drivers to join without force cockpit view, but I do not believe you get more of the right people, rather the opposite. And we are looking for quality before quantity. And it does not make sense to me that people that ultimately are to race in cockpit view should prepare himself with a different view.

In reality PrestoGP is not a democracy but a dictatorship per definition. That is because I need to be motivated to run it for it to excist, at least the way we know it today. Therefore the framwork will not change unless I am convinced it is a good idea.

If the situation was that a majority of the league wanted free cockpit view in 2nd division I would be open to discuss it because I understand that it does not make sense to force a crowd against their will, but there are no indication that there are any supporters for this (based on earlier discussions and this one).

Does this make sense? I believe in democracy, and almost always we go with the majority. So far we have not had a situation where the democratic voice have been in conflict with what I believe is important aspects with Presto GP, and I do not see it happening in the future either. But if it would happen one day I would probably gracefully bow out and encurage the rest to continue and build on the ideas they believe in and wish them all the best (but I would ask them to change the name of the league, or at least the logo)

Track suggestions: I like everything that is suggested (including Kennett's track), I see a vote being around the corner to have a final calendar as soon as possible. And it is great that Kennett can check the tracks and green light them (or not). This is something we have been missing in the past. (But will you be able to forsee problems that occur only when there is a large number of cars on track which we have had problems with in the past?)

Super pole: It only makes sense to review the qualifying system and see if we want to change/improve it or if we are happy with the way it is today. Why not open a thread where the qualifying format can be discussed. Remember though that I am not keen on prolonging the whole event, the longer race and 3 practice starts came from slashing the qual from 25 to 5 minutes.

 

[Jonas Lex]

My opinion about the track choice is that I would prefer Kennetts track (If theres no problem with that) over the North Korea track because that one seems a bit unfinished to me, it might have some glitches which surprise us midrace, I trust Kennetts work more.

Just one word about the suggestion, the idea behind it:
Besides the many good things this league offers, I think there is one problem which is the difficult conditions for unexperienced drivers to start in this league (I hope those are not the kind of drivers you mean by "drivers we are not looking for")
In the last months I have started in 3 different RD racing serieses and this one was a lot harder to get into because of the cars which are very hard to drive and all the limitations you have to get used to.

And also I think If we advertise a Div2 with all views enabled there is an actual chance to have a Div2 which we dont have right now.

I think it would be worth a try because the only way to find out if we get the right drivers for us is, if we try it, IMO the chances are not too bad and I dont see anything to loose with this idea, it doesnt influence Div1.
It could also be a rookie division with no promotion/delegation system and for example during the season

If we dont have a poll about this idea then thats ok too, but we still should think of ideas how to make this league a bit more popular for newcomers as well

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I can see problems with the layout (odd bumbs, missing/invisible walls etc) and see if it there's a racingline problems (too strict cuttings, too narrow sector gates etc). One the most important is to check wheter the wetline has been done or not. If it's not, then the dry line will appear in the middle of the track. Also pitboxes an pitlanes and their corresponding gates. I can not however see if there is online issues, that can be only done with full grid of online players running extented times... I can see if there's fundamental issues like unrealistic grip levels, length of sessions are sometimes wrong preventing 70 minute races or superpole. Those issues are easy to fix, they are left in the configuration files from other titles, mostly rFactor or GTR2 after conversions, simple delete is usually the tool.

What if we ask for those who are coming for Div2 how they feel? I'll bet that most of them want to be promoted to Div1 and thus it would be greatly beneficial to train cockpit view. Cockpitview in F1 is so natural so unless anyone has driven only in swingman view, the transition is really simple and fast. If we were driving with GTs or Touring cars, the question would much more relevant. There the cockpit view is always worse than any of the other options. With F1 is not such a big deal. I have complained about the Real Seat Positions being always on (blame SimBin, clearly a bug in the dedicated server software..) but even that is really small potatoes.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I dont see the cockpit view as a problem, i dont see it like its limiting people joining because they would want to use a different view. I think if people really into simracing and f1s the cockpit view is a given they would choose it anyway and if you dont like size of visor etc theres no visor mod that comes with the mod to have more viewable on screen. You then can adjust seating position a little to change view slightly aswell to find where you want it.
To me i think cockpit view is quite important for league racing especially as it lets you know that everyone is viewing the game from the same position and is ideal position for sim racing so when side by side on straights late braking you both see same thing. I use cockpit view in any game anyway though even gt cars or even on gt5 on ps3 wi a pad lol
so maybe thats just me.
Presto season 2 i was in div2 and finished 4th and i think was in qualifying race for div1 n felt great being promoted so that aspect would be great, but this all comes down to if we had enough people joining to have a div2 anyway im sure theres alot of people who would like to join but just dont have the time and are more casual sim racers, best to wait and see what numbers sign ups for next season and take it from there i know a few thinking of signing up so will at the worst if no div2 there should be a full div1 grid

My thinking and logic of the tracks is as follows
Korea - Fuji its close ish, theres also a few layouts prob the 93 the added chicane would be best had a look today and track is pretty impressive
USA - Watkin's is in Usa
Abu Dhabi - Abu Dhabi
India - Imola they both start with i
That way we get a few classic f1 tracks even tho fuji was used in 2008 lol

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

There's a possibility that Austin is built before the race but it's slim. Wouldn't count on it and wouldn't count it out.

 

[Peter Marshall]

Remember though that I am not keen on prolonging the whole event, the longer race and 3 practice starts came from slashing the qual from 25 to 5 minutes.

I personally believe the race length to be optimal as is.
Some may prefer longer or two shorter sprints, but there appears to be just enough "safety margin" to allow for picking up any fallen disco pilots on those rare occassions when we have problems and the event runs [well] overtime.

I also like the practice session length as is. This session is quite important for me to get "up to speed" and more importantly to get focused [awake ].Of course I could wake up earlier and practice on another server until....

I don't care at all about the qualifying session. It is just not important to me. We all get two weeks to challenge the leader board at prestogp.com. On the day there is one lap to get it right, so....[shrug] It's a fair challenge as is I think.

 

[Anthony Ishak]

what i am suggesting is to have a 10 minutes shoot out session , like the real F1 Q3 session but with invisible cars on track , se we have at least 2-3 tries to get a perfect lap...

Please ignore what I have suggested here, my intention was not to prolonge or reformat the whole race session or to start an endless debate or anything.

It is a fair challenge as is and it is my own problem to deal with the morning superpole and has nothing to do with all the rest .

 

[Nicolas Rouge]

I don't care at all about the qualifying session. It is just not important to me. We all get two weeks to challenge the leader board at prestogp.com. On the day there is one lap to get it right, so....[shrug] It's a fair challenge as is I think.

I think the same. Moreover, the place on the grid is really not important for me : I prefer being fast during the race rather than during the qualify session, but I understand the pilots that are frustrated because they fail their qualify lap. I think we all had at least a bad qualify lap this season, but I definitely love this format. I'd also prefer longer races, the whole lap numbers as in RL, but this would prevent some pilots to participate.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

As Spa will most likely be the first race of the season we should get the server open as soon as possible. Earlier years we have used:
Spa Francorchamps 2003 & 2004 by meck2 04/06/08 but I see that there is one called:
Spa 08 by pitkin 18/06/11

Opinions? Kennett, what do you think?

Both tracks are currently hosted.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

We have used the Spa2008 succesfully in Simracingsuomi many times, no problems that i can remember. I'll fire 3DSimEd up and check it right away, was feeling bored anyway..

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

OK, here are the notes from Spa2008:
- AIW is missing the dark grooves, don't cause any issues, they are purely visual. Fixed it in 5 minutes. (need to check it and possibly adjust some of them..)
- Rain Reflections were included but not activated. Fixed it in less than 5 minutes.

NOTE!!! Both fixes causes mismatches with non-fixed packages online.

Track layout is done very well, all the proper materials have been assigned correctly. Grip levels satisfactory, some bumbs feel quite large but are in right places. Note, i used Sepang setup, not really the right one to Spa. Ride height have to raised most likely, Eau Rouge/Raidiollion bottoms out and is trickier than 2004 in version where it's completely smooth, if i remember it correctly. The start grid is in correct place, 2004 version has it in the downhill section, where i believe GT/TC cars are starting from. 08 also has the correct bus-stop chicane where overtakes are possible. 2004 uses the left/right -> right/left double chicane that has since been reduced to right/left. Pitboxes and their waypoint connections look allright, half of the pits are located in the start-straight pit area, rest are in the downhill section.

My recommendation: Use the 2008 version. Track is solid even without fixes. No performance issues, runs very smoothly and is perfectly optimized. Has been tested online.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Rain fix is IMHO no brainer, Spa is often showered. Also dark grooves enhance the track very much and helps a lot with aligning the car for those sweeping long turns. There are some skidmarks and other tire marks but they are too few and too short for our purposes. The online mismatch is a bitch thou... I can make an automatic patcher to quickly apply/remove the fixes.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I think there is one problem which is the difficult conditions for unexperienced drivers to start in this league (I hope those are not the kind of drivers you mean by "drivers we are not looking for")

What I mean by drivers we are not looking for:
Throughout the time we have excisted we have had a lot of people signing up for the league. However, most of them disappear after a very short time. Maybe 1 out of 10 acctually becomes a member and race with us.

The way I see it it is a huge commitment to be a valuable part of a racing league. One need to practice a lot, and if one do not find practice entertaining it is only a question of time before they disappear again. The same goes for people who expect to be among the fastest within no-time.

One thing I am looking at is how we can change our appeal so that a larger degree of those signing up acctually becomes a valuable member. Removing force cockpit view will work the opposite way I think, as we make it even easier to sign up.

I want people to know what kind of commitment PrestoGP is before they sign up. I am thinking that "the right kind of people" get motivated by the fact that they can tell that the league is run in a way that they apprechiate (I would have been very sceptical if I was to join a league with free cockpit view, I would be much more interested if it was forced.)

It is not easy to start racing in our league I know, but that is more to do with the fact that it is a racing simulator and it is not easy to drive a f1 car more than 1 hour, with different tyre wear etc without making a mistake. (Therefore a 2x10 lap system would make more sense for a 2nd division.) This is one of the things that new potential members must understand, that it is a long learning curve and one must be motivated to join.