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Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Kennett Ylitalo, May 31, 2012.
Never too early
So lets start planning then
I wanted to post a new thread but I might as well post this idea over here:
I just want to "present" my concept of trying to create a 2nd division for the new season.
This is something Ive been thinking about for a while now, so heres what Im thinking of:
- League especially for drivers who want to learn how to drive these cars and maybe want to become league 1 drivers in the future OR for drivers who dont have to much time to practise for each event
- Only difference to Division 1 is that all views are allowed
- Division 2 will get a practise server which has all views enabled but its not necessary to have a fast lap time recorded before every race so the "all views server" will not record lap times to make sure the times on the Presto page are all in cockpitview
- Promotion for this league could be done on many platforms but especially with the help of RD. I could write a promotion article for the new Presto GP Division 2 and Im sure Bram Hengeveld could post it on the RD Front page if the article is of descent quality of course
One of the reasons why I think this could make sense is that I recently discovered that I have driven not a very good racing line in the past since I have been driving this mod only in cockpit mode so far.
I have discovered this in the swingman view and it has actually helped me a bit to improve my racing line.
So I think its not a bad idea to start driving in easier views first than having the full blast right at the start.
Since I plan to drive in Div1 next season again I could help out Nico a bit with the organisation of this league, if I may, so that he doesnt have even more stuff to do.
This is just a basic concept so there are some points that still have to be discussed but in my opinion this could work and this concept could interest enough people to get a league together, even if its just a small league, what do you guys think.
Positive and negative feedback of any kind is welcome!
I'm not sure of the importance of the free view. Nothing prevents you from practicing offline to check your racing line if you need to, and losing the laptime tracking is a big drawback. The last week I was practicing a lot and checking how far I was from the best and worst league members. It was motivating to observe myself climbing (or crawling), up the list.
If you make a server that is not tracked I can already tell I will not bother to use it, when I can get the same offline and for example disabling damage so I can push it without having to restart so often because of the ever present suspension problems.
(Coming to think about it, reduced -but not null- damage would be an interesting feature for beginners races)
Other than that, another division is a fine idea, but you need people. I would say a bunch of 15 newcomers (expect 5 to drop out after a couple of events) so between Div 1 and 2 you have 25 drivers that you can distribute. I think any less than that is better run in a single division than in two half-empty ones.
i hope your joining us next season alberto, you speak a lot of sense and have a lot of valuable input it seems
I'm planning to!
2 divisions would be great, doubt that we get so many participants thou... I'll take the job of inspecting tracks as that is my specialty.
The point that you are mentioning makes sense Alberto, you see the racing servers as a motivation.
However Im quite sure that there are many many drivers who get demotivated by that, seeing how far they are away from the drivers they are supposed to drive with when joining the league, thats one of the reasons it cost me so much effort to join this league as a beginner that I still am.
Thats why I think a league where lap times are completely uninteresting is an important point for beginning drivers. (drivers have to be able to drive safe of course)
And the same goes with the additional views, why is it important?
Because I think there are drivers out there who could become great league drivers but dont have the abilities or the confidence to drive a league race in cockpit view, so the 2nd Division could be a way to get confident or good enough to try it in Div 1 after one season or so.
Reduced damage, in my opinion is a bit too much, drivers shouldnt get used to an indestructible car because that has much influence on the driving style but thats just my opinion maybe we can consider that as well.
About the number of racers, as I said in my opinion this concept could interest enough people to have a reasonable amount of drivers.
Of course the main focus has to be that league 1 isnt badly influenced in any way in order to maintain 2 divisions, so the main goal has to be (like last season) to get a full field for the first division, but as long as there are lets say 7 drivers who want to learn and drive a race in division 2 I dont see a reason why not to organize it
But basically the 1st division shouldnt be influenced badly by a 2nd division at all
I agree with Alberto.
We do have multiple divisions, it is just that after we became fewer than 25 it made little sense to split the crowd in two, and we are suffering from that, the league definatly works better the more divisions we have. And perhaps a word of a possible 2nd division next season will help attract those who are scared of the pace?
I agree that around 25 drivers in total is the amount we need to consider 2 divisions. Using a 2 race format in the 2nd division is a posibillity if they are few, it is great entertainment if there are at least 8 regular drivers, I guess all the super-senior presto gp members would sign on that
I will make a provitional calendar for next season and post it here, for those who do not know, I do not create the calendar from free fantasy, I follow a rigid logic:
1.The season should have 10 rounds with preferably two weeks between each race, season ending in time for x-mas.
2. I try to match as many races as possible with the real F1 calendar.
3. Over a 2 season period we try to race all the races that we can from the real calendar, that means all the vacant spots after point 2 will be filled with the so far unused tracks that are availeble to us from the f1 calendar (usually those from summer brake). We do not race the same track 2 seasons in a row.
This is the real f1 calendar for the autumn (those in red I know the track is availble):
Abu Dhabi 04.11.2012
Other possible tracks (tracks we have used in earlier seasons):
Valencia i don't miss but Canada is a good track both in real life and the version usually used is well made. We had Montreal already but that was the 79 layout.. Apart from India and Austin, there is some version that we can use.
Looking forward to next seasons race calendar Nico.
As I said the main goal should be to get a full 1st Division (like last season) but I dont see a reason why not to open a 2nd division if we have sign ups.
I very much like a second division as well, and some of our members currently in 1st division probably would like to be in that 2nd division, and some of the new-commers might be more fit for 1st division. I do not mind if we are only 20 in 1st division and 10 in second, but I will expect the same commitment from everybody as we have with our excisting members today
For me what decides which division you should be in is pace. The smaller the difference of pace between the fastest and slowest in a division, the better.
People that want to join should be encuraged to practice the first race of season 9 (Spa), and when we get closer to season start it will be easier to figure out who should be in witch division.
But crucial for everything is that as many as possible of the RD-people know about us, so getting some "advertisement" for next season would be great. I will contact Bram myself and we'll take it from there.
If my offer to help with the organization is not needed then ok, however Im willing to help.
And what kind of format do you think should the league be rearding less car damage or all views allowed. Actually what do all the league members think about the division 2 format as well?
Afterall this is a democratic league
I'm all for two divisions. +1
Silverstone 2011 - the arena section version.
Something sort of new. I am yet to drive it but we all nearly did last season.
An excellent thought. We use 70%, maybe Div 2+ at something like 50%.
It's never much fun getting damaged early in a race, It does not demotivate me if/ when it happens to me [very, very rare occurrance anyway] but the old line "I spent two weeks practicing for this race and it was over before it started...." sigh, more work for our dear admins....
Is it worth looking at the first few turns at Singapore? There is a degree of "straight lining" through [across] them.
I think for next season as in the format, race length, pits, mod etc we should just keep everything the same, we have got quite good setup with mostly 2 stops and longer race and pressure of super pole.
It would be great if we could get enough people for a 2nd division with advertising here on race department etc. What about a doing few races in the race07 racing club with our mod during the off season so people can try mod in a race format also getting some advertising? We could do some tracks we have already done and maybe a 2x25 min race format seems to be the prefered setup for club events. We could do it on the weds at same times races would be in league also would make sense. Im sure a few people from presto would join them to and any new guys or people looking to join would give them good practise, i know i would more than likely do the races also .
Also season 9 Spa 1st ooooooo ye cant wait already , i think Watkins Glen would make a good choice for the USA race and isnt there a Adu Dhabi we already raced ? What about Fuji Speedway for korea i found a vlm track http://forum.emacberry.com/viewtopic.php?f=184&t=7289
Ive no idea what its like never tried it maybe another for in the mix
All great suggestions! Agree 100%. VirtuaLM always makes perfect tracks. I'd trust in them. I'd also try to join such club races. Just advertise them here.
I feel like your suggestion of a second division is done without the knowledge that PrestoGP is not a 1 division league, it is a concept for multiple divisions. You should rather make suggestions on what changes we can make to the current system in stead of creating a new 2nd division.
If I am to transelate your blueprint for a new 2nd division into suggestions for the excisting system I end up with the following answers:
-a second division will have force cockpit view
-yes they can have lower damage sensitivity (as Peter sais, we use 70% damage in division 1, and I agree that it only makes sense to have it lower in an eventual 2nd division, e.g. 50%)
-we need to be enough people
So asking the question if we should have a second division or not is not the right question to ask, we need more members and then we'll have a 2nd division.
Nico, first of all I didnt ask if we should have a 2nd division, I asked what other members of the league think about a 2nd division with all views enabled because I think it would make sense to decide such things democratically, instead of just disapproving them immediately.
In my opinion this rule could be integrated in the league and would help to get more new drivers, but thats just what I think of course.
I do get your point that we need enough drivers to have a 2nd division,
but as I said, thats exactly why I made this suggestion.
IMO if we have a forced cockpit rule for Division 2, the chance that we get enough drivers is much much lower than if we try promoting a Div2 with all views enabled.
Once again this wouldnt influence the 1st division or the recorded laptimes, everything would be like the last season only the chance to have more league drivers would rise.
Thats why I dont see why you immediately disapproved this.
Please dont get me wrong Nico I dont want to start an arguement, I have come to really like this league also because of the democratic system here.
So Nico please let me suggest to have a poll whether or not we should have a 2nd division with all views enabled or with forced cockpit view.
Because if we dont try out things I dont see how this league can grow or improve
but all league members should decide about that.
Silly me for not suggesting Kennett's track. Cicada? Did I spell that right?
There are so many good tracks available to choose from but I think it is also nice to have one track that is new and unrehearsed included in the season. A thought...