RD Formula Pro Series S3 (GTR Evolution)

Eric. K · Dec 30, 2008

All,

I know we have discussed that in the past, but since the cat is out of the bag I would like to hear more feedback. The format will be a little more official than discussed originally (we will be using all the GPCOS rules and scoring) and it won't start for another couple of months (until we finalize everything). The league will be opened to everyone, but priority will be given first to North American members then PanAmerican drivers finally everyone else. I am not sure which cars to use yet. I would prefer not to drive WTCC nor GT cars. There are a lot of WTCC events and a GT league will just end in Feb. Let's be a little more original. I would love to use cars that are not raced very often (F3000, Caterham, Radicals, WTCC 87, WTCC eXtreme, etc).

I want to hear from anyone who is interested in participating:
Driver name:
Race type: sprint/endurance
Car preferences (can list several):
Best day/time #1:
Alternative day/time #2:
Alternative day/time #3:
Should we somehow use weight penalties?:
Favorite track:
Remarks/comments:

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Drivers:

Eric Kaczmarek
Yves Larose
Timothy Miller
Corey Theman
Mitch Philipi
Niklas Vesterinen
Luis Carlos
Sean Vohs
Ian Landry
Jan Wikström
Keith Barrick
Gaynall Hudgins
Dave Stephenson
Jean-Michel Rucheton
Rhys Gardiner
Marty Pierce
Marcel vd Aa
Leandro Lage
Edenilson Penco
Bob Luneski
Bill Kaiser
Péter Bártfai
Chris Vick
Rafael Barbosa
Matt Alpeter
Aritan Maia
Nico Major
Pascal Malenfant Tremblay

Cars:

F3000: 14x
WTCC 87: 9x
SR3/4: 11x
Caterhams: 12x
WTCC Extreme: 4x
WTCC/STCC: 7x
Camero: 3x
Mini: 2x
Production class: 2x (Audi R8)
FBMW: 3x
GTs: 7x

Tracks:

Barcelona GP
SPA 2003
Mid Ohio Chicane
Miller
Ledenon
Suzuka
Brno
Interlagos
Brandshatch
Nurburgring GP
Rouen
Mosport
Kaylami
Road One
Estoril
Valencia Street
Donnington
Cadwell Park
Sepang
Imola
Monte-Carlo
Ledenon
Zander
Valencia
Curitiba
Limerock Mountain
Hungaroring

Weight penalties:

14x yes
4x no (moved a no to a yes after some testing and chatting with Niklas)
maybe? 3x
2x dont care

Valter Ostman · Jun 1, 2010

Grats Ventis :good:

Konrad Stanczak · Jun 1, 2010

In terms of the "setup factor" as being demotivating. Its actually motivating for me

.
Knowing that the fast guys have their engineers and perfect setups as well as the pro simracing hardware (mine is actually quite rubbish and broken atm) make me think that is the reason why i am slower. Now if i had all that and still would be significantly worse - then it would get demotivating.
Let them have their setups, ill keep my excuses for being weak

And another thing: having a pro setup and knowing how to use and drive it are 2 different things.

Peter Duivelaar · Jun 1, 2010

About the times Arno:
The problem is that no matter when the races are driven, there will always be some drivers that will not be able to participate.
For me saturday evenings are more convenient then sunday evenings for instance.

Martin Bulgin · Jun 1, 2010

The Times of the races are the same for the semi pro div but we have a near full grid most weeks, so what is it about the pro div that they have had more dropouts ?

Ventis Didrihsons · Jun 1, 2010

Few thoughts about sharing the setups.

From my point of view - the idea to share the setups within the whole community is not really going to work for obvious reasons – apart from being nice and communicable here we are fighting each other and the setups are part of the game - like it is in RL F1 racing.

However I think it would be correct to share some basic tips (extreme values)of this mod which are not really according any setup book (I’m sure majority of teams and drivers already know it – low tyre pressure, higher cambers, very soft springs (especially front), high negative toes, very low ride heights ).
I also don’t mind to share my knowledge and improve it by discussing different things here on forum, for example – Istanbul T1

For drivers who are struggling with setups I would recommend to get the setup guide and put themself’s through (at least the basics) if they wan’t to performe in top level. If they don’t have that ambition or it’s too time-consuming then maybe it’s good idea to find a team and work together with other guys. From my own experience I can tell that "surfing" with other's setups without any sence and understanding is step back in your own growth

I also believe that cooperation between different teams from different divisions would make teams stronger. Stronger teams = stronger community which I think would be right direction to deal with the main issue here – how to make full grid for Pro division at the end of the season

Peter Duivelaar · Jun 1, 2010

I didn't know yet about the high negative toes in the setup

Ventis Didrihsons · Jun 1, 2010

Peter Duivelaar said:
I didn't know yet about the high negative toes in the setup

Peter! It doesn't surprise me

after watching your great driving performance in replays - I'm sure your setups are very far from perfect.... I mean it

Peter Duivelaar · Jun 1, 2010

Ventis Didrihsons said:
Peter! It doesn't surprise me after watching your great driving performance in replays - I'm sure your setups are very far from perfect.... I mean it

And then considering how much time Reik and me put into the setup

Dave Stephenson · Jun 1, 2010

On setups, I have re-writen this post about 9 times, the problem of talking about setups is that they are such an abstract thing, they are very personal to each driver and apart from the basics it is almost impossible to be objective about them because of this personal preference factor.

The fact is that Ventis' setups will only ever be perfect for Ventis, and even then they won't be 'perfect' in a pure sense as he will have made decisions about where he wants his setup to be stable/or fast etc. For the same reasons Arno's setups will only ever be perfect for Arno for the same reasons.

In short a setup can NEVER be perfect for any track, it is always a compromise between the the tight bits, the wide bits, the slow or the twisty bits. This is what brings the choices. Ventis may know he has very good braking skills which he can use to make a less than perfect slow/tight corner setup corner better than it should. He may therfore decide to run a lower wing setup to reap the rewards of straight line speed.

Arno may decide that in the long fast sweeping corners at x, y, or z circuit he has the throttle control to be fast without needing to rely on rear wing settings to hold the car in. He might therefore decide to setup his chasis to be very grippy in the twisty stuff and run low wing for the long straight.

If these 2 cases where true (of course i just made up examples) and the drivers swapped setups, they would be just as disadvantaged as if they ran the default and played with wings only. Also remember that even once they have made their setup they still need to put the laps in to learn how to drive the setup to its full potential. There is little substitute for practice and experience in race driving.

Ill try and bring it round a little now. The basics as mentioned above, things like setting camber to get the best from tyres and to get the required temperature spreads etc, is a constant thing, it should in theory work the same for everybody, but even these values would change as soon as you made a couple of clicks adjustment to the wing or the springs. I guess there lies the point of this, as grey and blurry as it is. Unless you are a real F1 team with brilliant computer software and 20 years of data to base your decisions on then the truth is setups are hard and take a long time to refine.

My advice for people worried about the setups is to create they're own base setups. setups take a long time to refine so put the hours in upfront, go to a highspeed track you like and enjoy, enjoy is key, you will be doing A LOT of laps. Build a setup for it, do the one click, test iterate process, do enough laps after each to collect fair comparisons. do the same for a mid speed track, and again for somewhere slow and tight like Monaco.

When you have done this these become your base setups, learn them well, learn them very very well. When you then go to a new track, pick the appropriate base setup and drive it until you cannot get any more time and are consistent. Only then start making adjustments. Make them small each time and make them based on the things mentioned a both, like you want to be more comfortable at x section or y section. Of course some things will need to be changed at every venue like cambers, and wings but if you started from a setup that is closer to what you need than the default the knock effect of changes should be much less and you should have a comfortable setup much faster.

Once again the stress here is that 1) your setup will only ever be good for you, someone else's may be close but it will never be perfect and 2) there is no substitute for practice.

This is a little offtopic here so i'll leave it at that. I could write for weeks about the abstract nature of setups but I won't

Arno Hoog · Jun 1, 2010

Amen to that dave. I agree on everything. A good setup is 1, but to get the top times you just need a few hours of practice for every track.

Next to that I agree with Ventis: find a setup that suits YOU!

And honustly... that's one of the easiest bits with this mod. As some people above me already said there are some basic settings that work on EVERY track:

Camber in Q: 5.0 - 4.0
Springs: 58 front, 80 tot 110 at the rear
Tyre Pressures: 100-130 range. Usually about 10 clicks more at the rear. Look at the Racedepartment setup guide + motec. Get yourself through the setup guide it since it's only a 20 minute job to get it right once you know how it works.
Toe in: -1.00 always works at the front, the rear usually between -0.5 & -1.00

Now find the wing balance you like, adjust gears and you should have a setup that can make you do well.

Bruno Sousa Ferreira · Jun 2, 2010

Arno Hoog;544668]Amen to that dave. I agree on everything. A good setup is 1 said:
Next to that I agree with Ventis: find a setup that suits YOU!

And honustly... that's one of the easiest bits with this mod. As some people above me already said there are some basic settings that work on EVERY track:

Camber in Q: 5.0 - 4.0
Springs: 58 front, 80 tot 110 at the rear
Tyre Pressures: 100-130 range. Usually about 10 clicks more at the rear. Look at the Racedepartment setup guide + motec. Get yourself through the setup guide it since it's only a 20 minute job to get it right once you know how it works.
Toe in: -1.00 always works at the front, the rear usually between -0.5 & -1.00

Now find the wing balance you like, adjust gears and you should have a setup that can make you do well.

Even the little things you say here e.i. spring normally I have them a bit closer 80 F - 88 R, and the toe are different for me , so this reinforces that a set up only suits the person who made it.

And what Dave says is correct you are going to need to do a base set up, it took me up to the Barcelona race to get a base set up that I was comfortable with, and don't think it only refers to this F1 cars it is for all types of cars.
with the F3K's when I started doing set ups, it took me usually a couple of weeks to get them right, but after an year not did I only managed to do set ups in about a couple of days (say a total of 4 to 5 hours), I also noticed very subtle differences in the cars when I made changes, were before I wouldn't have.

So this all experiences have taught me that time in the track is the most important to learn the car and improve your times.

I can understand some ppl strugguling with the cars might want help setting up, but my advice is to do laps thats the best way not only improve skills but the car and how changes affect it.
By telling someone changing this the car will do this, does not works well because you set up the car not only for your driving style but for the many different situations, tracks, conditions etc... and the only way someone really would understand is by doing it.

For me this F1 cars I still have a lot to learn to be able to make a true proper perfect set up for me, and the only way to get better is to practice,practice,practice.

Ok we've gone off topic a bit.:tongue:

Joshua Wilson · Jun 2, 2010

^^^ Arno are you serious? :eek: That Toe is crazy! Thanks a lot for putting that up for everyone, really generous considering it would've taken a lot of your time to figure that out! Can't wait to get home to try it out!

Günthar Rowe · Jun 2, 2010

Dave Stephenson said:
... Unless you are a real F1 team with brilliant computer software and 20 years of data to base your decisions on then the truth is setups are hard and take a long time to refine.

That is dealing with RL data created by RL physics

Much of what we built here in this mod was limited by the platform and computer modelling power (within the confines of a multi-player game simulator). The gMotor platform is limited in Hz which in such a high performing vehicle like this also detracts somewhat it's tunability.

Mitchell Phillipi · Jun 2, 2010

Istanbul results

Who had the brass tax to handle the quad apex flat out at Istanbul?! Some did, and as the results played out, didn't! Istanbul, one of the most exciting tracks on the FPWS roster has rewarded a select few with a podium finish, and some with a long walk back to the paddock. Here are the results! FPWS Pro division has Peter Duivelaar across the finish line for the podium, total race time of 1h24m59.418, followed by Reik Major +51secs, and Ventis Didrihsons rounds out the top three +52.4secs - an all out drag race to the finish.

Driver Standings Season FPWS PRO Division: S3
1. Ventis Didrihsons 140 (0)
2. Peter Duivelaar 117 (-8)
3. Jamie Blewitt 104 (0)

FPWS Semi-Pro division sees...guess who...the seriously getting close to being kicked to Pro Division, our lighning fast Kevin Ledoux - AGAIN! Congrats Kevin, this is the 4th race IN A ROW, and 5th of the season for Semi-Pro division crossing the finish line for the podium, total race time of 1h26m31.517. Coming in second place is Ivo Simons +53secs, and our ever consistent Joao Andias at +1m14secs. We can't miss the 4th place finisher here however as Will Marquez was literally drag racing Joao down to the finish line with only 0.1secs between them! Photo finish here folks - congrats!

Driver Standings Season FPWS Semi-Pro: S3
1. Kevin Ledoux 146 (0)
2. Ivo Simons 129 (0)
3. Joao Andias 104 (0)

Konrad Stanczak · Jun 2, 2010

Joshua Wilson said:
^^^ Arno are you serious? :eek: That Toe is crazy! Thanks a lot for putting that up for everyone, really generous considering it would've taken a lot of your time to figure that out! Can't wait to get home to try it out!

Aye that, i can see some major update packages ready for Nurburgring

Dave Stephenson · Jun 2, 2010

Günthar Rowe said:
That is dealing with RL data created by RL physics Much of what we built here in this mod was limited by the platform and computer modelling power (within the confines of a multi-player game simulator). The gMotor platform is limited in Hz which in such a high performing vehicle like this also detracts somewhat it's tunability.

That's something worth pointing out

Of course Günthar, I'm very much aware of that, but the principal remains the same imo. The guys who have put the hours in are better at setting up their car to their liking, and have more knowledge from previous races to apply to future setups.

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There is some good information there from everybody about setups but I think its :offtopic:time to go back to Pro Division Thoughts. Feel free to make a new thread and continue the discussion of setups

Will Marquez · Jun 2, 2010

FPWS S3 - Round 9: Nurburgring GP - June 12th, 2010

Weather and race details -> f1.racedepartment.com

Grid

Minimum time to set on Presto servers to race is 1:30.999 in the Pro Division (if you are red your time has already been checked)

Pro Division line-up
BSR: Jan Wikstrom - Tim McIver
05F1: Steve Davis - Reinhard Berger
WR: Ventis Didrihsons - Chris Jacque
WR2: Anthony Ishak
BHR1: David Noden - Cody Kutzner
TBR1: Jamie Blewitt -
TBR2: Mikael Hellen - Wietse Visser
BRM: Peter Duivelaar - Reik Major
WF1: Jonathan Wilson - Joshua Wilson
A31: Jakob de Boer
Single reserve driver:

Minimum time to set on Presto servers to race is 1:32.999 in the Semi-Pro Division (if you are red your time has already been checked)

Semi-Pro Division line-up
BHR: Eric Kaczmarek - Mitchell Phillipi
WOF: Will Marquez - Jean-Michel Rucheton
EUT:
1066R: Martin Bulgin - Tyler Scurlock
WBR: Giorgos Davakos - Dinca Andrei -
WBR2:
05F1: Jason Pitts - Chris Vick
BMB:
TBR3: Ivo Simons -
RWT: Mattia Gottardi
AnE: -------
RP: Bruno Sousa Ferreira - Kimmo Kokkonen