RD Formula Pro Series S3 (GTR Evolution)

Eric. K · Dec 30, 2008

All,

I know we have discussed that in the past, but since the cat is out of the bag I would like to hear more feedback. The format will be a little more official than discussed originally (we will be using all the GPCOS rules and scoring) and it won't start for another couple of months (until we finalize everything). The league will be opened to everyone, but priority will be given first to North American members then PanAmerican drivers finally everyone else. I am not sure which cars to use yet. I would prefer not to drive WTCC nor GT cars. There are a lot of WTCC events and a GT league will just end in Feb. Let's be a little more original. I would love to use cars that are not raced very often (F3000, Caterham, Radicals, WTCC 87, WTCC eXtreme, etc).

I want to hear from anyone who is interested in participating:
Driver name:
Race type: sprint/endurance
Car preferences (can list several):
Best day/time #1:
Alternative day/time #2:
Alternative day/time #3:
Should we somehow use weight penalties?:
Favorite track:
Remarks/comments:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drivers:

Eric Kaczmarek
Yves Larose
Timothy Miller
Corey Theman
Mitch Philipi
Niklas Vesterinen
Luis Carlos
Sean Vohs
Ian Landry
Jan Wikström
Keith Barrick
Gaynall Hudgins
Dave Stephenson
Jean-Michel Rucheton
Rhys Gardiner
Marty Pierce
Marcel vd Aa
Leandro Lage
Edenilson Penco
Bob Luneski
Bill Kaiser
Péter Bártfai
Chris Vick
Rafael Barbosa
Matt Alpeter
Aritan Maia
Nico Major
Pascal Malenfant Tremblay

Cars:

F3000: 14x
WTCC 87: 9x
SR3/4: 11x
Caterhams: 12x
WTCC Extreme: 4x
WTCC/STCC: 7x
Camero: 3x
Mini: 2x
Production class: 2x (Audi R8)
FBMW: 3x
GTs: 7x

Tracks:

Barcelona GP
SPA 2003
Mid Ohio Chicane
Miller
Ledenon
Suzuka
Brno
Interlagos
Brandshatch
Nurburgring GP
Rouen
Mosport
Kaylami
Road One
Estoril
Valencia Street
Donnington
Cadwell Park
Sepang
Imola
Monte-Carlo
Ledenon
Zander
Valencia
Curitiba
Limerock Mountain
Hungaroring

Weight penalties:

14x yes
4x no (moved a no to a yes after some testing and chatting with Niklas)
maybe? 3x
2x dont care

Dave Stephenson · May 30, 2010

it should be good. Im looking forward to it already

Bruno Sousa Ferreira · May 30, 2010

In qualy mine was 334 about that speed, but like in this track it is a comprimise between top speed and downforce, most likely Joao was going a bit too low, I think my top speed is probrably the least downforce you want to go with.

Martin Holman · May 30, 2010

May I just congratulate the Winner and other drivers of this race ,
As you probaly been reading from this forum myself and Andy from the Renault team was struggling to reach qualifying time after all the practicing that we had put in for the last two weeks ,
So we would both like to apologies if we have upset any off you in any way ,or got in your way on the circuit or slowed you down it was not intentionally.
As this is our first season in the Semi pro league we realize you have a lot to learn ,and can you teach two old dog in our fifties new tricks as we are learning all the time ,but on a good note great racing all ,Martin :wink:

Eric. K · May 30, 2010

I actually didnt have much trouble with either of the Renaults.

Dave Stephenson · May 30, 2010

Turning up, putting the effort in, and being ready are willing to learn are the most important things from where I'm looking looking so you cant go far wrong

:doublethumb:

Abdul Al-Amry · May 30, 2010

Here is my cockpit for the race. Moving all that is fitness enough for the race.

Eric. K · May 30, 2010

You are the man Abdul!!!

Dave Stephenson · May 30, 2010

i have the same case, it weighs a ferkin ton with 2 of a everything and a bunch of hard drives in it

João Andias · May 30, 2010

Eric Kaczmarek said:
@ Joao?? Toping at 343? My top speed was 330 in Q and 322 in race lol...

Ivo Simons said:
Mine was arround 327 in race and 335 in Q.
Think that was the limit for me with low wing because it was gonna be scary at the end of the stint if i was using lower wing.
More went for the safe thing...

Bruno Sousa Ferreira said:
In qualy mine was 334 about that speed, but like in this track it is a comprimise between top speed and downforce, most likely Joao was going a bit too low, I think my top speed is probrably the least downforce you want to go with.

I will not post here my wing settings, likely I would be

, but as you guys can easily guess and as Abdul knows, it is (maybe very) low... anyway, nothing new there is it? :wink:

On contrary to my race setup (where I clearly lacked wing when the tyres had went), my qualifying setup wasn’t that bad…
With a 7th gear properly setup (btw, Martin, thanks, I did knew that, I’m just from “old school” and use XD & MoTeC I2 pro) , I think I could go above 345 km/h… alone.

My final sector was kind of fast; after the triple apex turn in the down-hill area if I did it right, I could go to 330 km/h, as for going up-hill (in race), 340 km/h (without draft)…
That clearly facilitates regarding overtaking… just ask Will what he thinks of my “point & accelerate” technique…

The all low wing thing has several origins, some more understandable than others; one is very simple, I initiated my virtual racing live with many races at the Nordschleife and its power-hill (where one really learns the meaning of the expression "horses for courses"). The other is "deeper" and comes from RL... As I "wasted" (not) part of my youth with a "tail happy" motor-sport, I enjoy much a lose rear always in need of a good handful... (For instances and by contrast, I've strong dislike for front end move... better to put the rear moving, fixing in that way the front and handling the rear with wheel & accelerator/brake). Anyway, nothing new there/here...

Ivo Simons said:
... And o yeah Joao dont started driving trough me at the pitstop all the time. Just saw the replay and forgot you where doing that in both pitstops.

I was just trying to jinx you as you tried to jinx me at the buguining...

If this was rF... :tongue:

Btw, Mr. Abdul, prime effort there, thanks... :wink:
Your fan is bigger than mine...

Hmm, also... I don't see it?... The truth... you removed the doping before the photo, didn't you :eek:

Ventis Didrihsons · May 30, 2010

It’s good this issue has been raised.

This league is great, everything here is in the top level thanks to huge effort from Eric and other guys managing this league. To see only 15 drivers on the grid is very strange feeling. I don’t understand this.

I think the main reasons already have been mentioned here like end of the season and drivers are losing their motivation.... Also we have to face the fact that drivers from Europe are racing saturday nights where „force-majour” situations may happen. But then it’s always possible for the teams/ managers to find other drivers for replacement or at least to try. Even if you are not fighting for win you still have a great chance to pay respect to those who are making all this possible.

It also would be interesting to hear different point of views and experiences from other league managers, just to understand whether/ how it’s possible to deal with this in future.

I also want to take my hat off for Semi-Pro Division drivers. What is your secret guys?

Dave Stephenson · May 30, 2010

I have to get the calculator out now, see what those numbers are in 'real money'.

335km for me, not that my wing settings are of any consequence to anyone.

Ventis Didrihsons · May 30, 2010

Reik Major said:
A shame that our teams aren't equal in points like the board shows us now, because i'm not getting 20 points for a 2nd place, but 11 points for a 5th after my 25 seconds penalty is taken into acount. :frown: (but the penalty was indeed deserved)

What penalty?

Will Marquez · May 30, 2010

Race Report: Will Marquez - WoF Racing/Red Bull

Q1 - P5: Was just hoping to get in the top 10 and a solid starting position, due to not having internet for the week, wasn't able to do as much testing as I would have liked. Found some time/speed in the early going of quali but just couldn't put it together. With 6 mins left jumped up from P11 to P5 just barely in front of Mattia for the final spot in the top5 for superpole.

Q2 - P4: Certainly not my best hotlap but I could feel all the eyes of the Semi Pro drivers looking down on me as I was super nervous for this one for some reason. lol.

Race - Came off the line really well and was really concerned about both BHR drivers beating me off the line heading into T1. Tried to keep up with both TBR drivers early on but they just had too much pace for me. Mitchell starts to make up time on me and gets a run out of the final corner and I knew I wouldn't be able to keep him at bay for too long as it looked like he was on a different strategy than me. So on the straight before T1 decide to give up my position to Mitch and not making a mess out of T1 for the both of us since its only a few laps into the race. So there goes one BHR driver in front of me. But there was still one behind me that I was concerned about. Eric closes the gap from 2 secs to about .500. But was able to string together probably my fastest and most consistent laps together to get a bit of a gap just before my pitstop. As I pull into the pits, I see Eric along with some other possible 2 stop drivers come in as well. During warmup, the WoF Racing pitcrew was doing a phenomenal job on practicing their pitstops and getting their driver in and out as quickly as possible. As I get out of the pits I gained a more comfortable cushion and able to focus on just running some clean laps with open track in front of me. Held P4 for the majority of the race. Second stint was pretty uneventful for me as the front runners were just to quick and I had decided to run a 2 stopper with hard tires for strategy.

Time for the final stint with 18 laps to go. And as I come into the pits I was sure happy that the mechanics upped my radiator up and adjusted it to prepare for the hot weather at the end. Although I didn't get any warnings like my teammate I couldn't help but see on DX that my water temps were getting up to around 110. I had a gap of about 4-5 secs from Joao who was P5. But heading into the famous T8 I barely touch the grass off the rumbles and go into a spiraling spin. Just my luck when I finally get my bearings my car is pointing in the right direction. I get back on track, and here comes the Ferrari and Joao is right on me. He catches the slipstream and literally takes off!! lol

The spin totally throws me off my rhythm and he pulls away to as much as 9 secs. I see Mitchell pit and I'm up to P4 behind Joao. The gap maintained the same for several laps when all of a sudden I gained a second here, then another one, a couple tenths more. The gap was now 5 secs with just a handful of laps to go. Would it be possible to catch the Enduro man himself???

All of a sudden thoughts of a consecutive podium were surely possible and I could hear on the WoF radio " COME ON!!!... COME ON!!" (It was actually me yelling to myself! hahaha) Totally engaged with the battle that Joao and I were having. Final lap comes and we are side by side heading into T1 with me on the inside and we are wheel to wheel. Joao gets on the throttle faster than me and I'm just trying to stay close and somehow find a way around him as I knew on the straights there just wouldn't be a way to overtake him. Final S turns and I'm right there. I actually get on the throttle quicker, as we are drag racing down the main straight towards the finish line. Joao edges me out by .090 for the final spot on the podium!!

End up in P4 and absolutely thrilled with the result. With both WoF drivers crossing the finish line we are now tied with BHR for 3rd overall in the team championship with one race to go!!

What an exciting race, I must say for myself probably THE toughest one of the season.

Thanks to Eric, RD and the FPWS staff for organizing the event.

Looking forward to our final race of the season already!

See you guys in Nurburgring!

Arno Hoog · May 31, 2010

I know you are not trying to refer to anyone in particular Eric. Anyway I personally feel my contribution to this season has been very poor and therefor I feel I can't shy away from this topic.

Before the season -as you know- we have had quite some discussion about the race time / day. You made the saterday night (gmt) call as you wanted it to be a "world" division and therefor find a timeslot where -no matter on what continent you live- you should be able to race. That enabled the league to have a field of top drivers from all over the world to come together.

I should have made the right call and not sign up for the league because saterday nights for me is usually more about social time than it is about online racing. With the prospect of racing Ventis, Jamie, David, Peter and so many more top drivers it was simply way too hard to not sign up.

As a suggestion for a future championship I would like to agree with Jamie: it's more about fun than it is about prizes, it's more about dedicated racers than it is about getting the top drivers together regardless of the consequences. And I would like to add this one: it's more about finding a timeslot where you know for sure the people that sign up are likely to race than it is about finding one that more or less suites everyone on the globe.

Konrad Stanczak · May 31, 2010

Im gonna make it short and imprecise of how i remember the race.
Qually was good. Despite the laps on the ending when the temps were high and best for fast laps were wasted - due to errors and traffic i made a good hotlap ealry and qualled at 9th position.
The race went on and surprisingly i had a good start. Went in to the middle before T1 and passed 2 guys and went BARELY in to the inside of Mitchell scrubbing our sidepods and rims. I think it was the most daring start move ive done so far in my life. I would probably advance in to T2 but Mitch had to avoid by going left a bit and i immediately was forced to do the same. Being slow and on the outside of T2 ive lost my going and was back to 9th.
To all contrary of what i aimed for i spun out in lap 2 AT T1 and basically did all wrong in regards of how not to behave in such case. Luckily the contact made there was little and no damage.
I was ll the way down 16th and with my strategy 3 pit stop -3 stints for 13 laps and meds - last stint hards 19 laps meant that again i will have a lot of work crawling up to my initial position and hopefully some action.
And it came true, light car with medium tires against guys that were a bit slower. But none of them decided to give away their position.
* Kimmo was the first one to become pray on the long straight. After Him i took Giorgos. Someone again spun out on T1 ahead and i made an evasion by going around to the outside. It slowed me down badly and sneaky Giorgos risked the normal line and took back his spot. Ive initiated the same long straight overtaking move on Giorgos but this time he carried a little more speed in to the turn and did not bother to brake down or evade. A small punt without damage made me spin and as he waited for me 1 or 2 guys passed. I had Kimmo Kokkonen ahead AGAIN! AGGGHR i tough at that time its Sisyphus work to get thru those guys and my fast lap time was running out. Stint 1 laps ran out and i pitted. I was hoping for a clean route to overtake them in the pits despite i was on 1 more.
With some free road ahead i was doing fast laps and after 2nd stint i knew i reclaimed the loss. A lap ahead Will showed up in front of me. Running with more fuel and used rubber this scenario was known to me and i should unlap myself. Decided i wont press on Willy and a few laps later he had a bad exit front T9/10 and i got my chance to do it safely and without stress for both of us. I remember Abdul came in to play at some point as i went out of pits. Barely able to stay behind him he was also dragged by a lap up Ivo and the long straight pulling away and keeping the split stream for himself. Unlucky for Abdul one of backmarkers made some trouble for him at T8. Abdul had to go out to the off road pavement and that gave me a chance to overtake. He must have been pissed about that as soon we went to T9/10 seems like he pushed too much and was thrown in to the wall and lost a wheel.
The rest of the race was safe with distance ahead and behind safe enough for me to let the car cool off with longer off throttle time in to the braking zones. Martin Bulgin slowed down a lot in the race end and i hope to maybe get him before the finish line. Catching a bit of split stream i wasted that chance by missing the braking point and spinning. Oh well, just getting to the finish line on
9th. Good result concerning the circumstances and lots of fun. Maybe if not loosing it on lap2 i would be higher 1/2 positions but it was much more fun this way.
Congratz to the winners finishers and a big thanks to the awesome organizers of FPWS (yes, you are awesome! )

Eurico Marques · May 31, 2010

my thoughts one great league whit great drivers.

In my case im frustaited not to get 1 3 our 10 its for having so many DNF has hard us i try the changes in the mod mess me up but its life and life goes on and we try harder we aim for bether and they will arrive.
Now about drivers well in Semi we add full grids all season in Pro dont no but its like every place in sim world some are like this full grids in the 1rounds then it faids.

Now to eric thanks for amazing league great abient and great drivers all we few we band off brothers.

Ps thanks Water blue Racing Ivan Dinca and especial to my team mate and boss to put whit me and all my DNF will try bether next season Boss

Reik Major · May 31, 2010

Ventis Didrihsons said:
What penalty?

PENALTIES FOR SILVERSTONE

Pro

1. TS 135 - Reik Major hits Jan Wikstrom, involving several other cars
2. TS 140 - Reik Major rejoins and hits Tim McIver

1+2. Back of the grid at Istanbul (or next competed race) and a 25 seconds penalty levied to Major at his next completed event.

1. TS 165 - Ventis Didrihsons hits Joshua Wilson

1. Back of the grid for Didrihsons at Istanbul (or next competed race).

The penalty sent me to the back of the grid (like you) but i also get an extra time penalty adding 25 seconds to my race time at istanbul, because my behavior at silverstone was worse than yours (i agree with this).

Atm i and our team got points like i'd finished second (which i did) but after adding the 25 seconds i shold be 5th with a very small gap in front of Chris.

Konrad Stanczak · May 31, 2010

Well here are my thoughts:
Why the presence at semi pro is good all the way and in pro div appealing?
Few things i can think of:
Theyve joined lured by the prizes - as the time went on and the chance of getting them dropped to none: they've lost motivation.
Their race pace was not enough - at such high level competition it requires a lot of practice to become competitive and even then you might be in the back = they lack time for practice = their ego gets hurt = they loose motivation.
Probably its a general approach factor, I personally strive to find the best fight and would be honored to get my ass kicked by the best - yet arriving to the finish line laps down for Nth time can be discouraging.

Only top 15 gets the points
The basic question comes up: what to fight for when there is nothing to fight for? Those slower paced drivers unless their only motive is to get to the finish no matter where - can find themselves in a motivational vacuum.
Lets look around to other racing leagues maybe to find a solution.

Oriented strictly for individual championships Bram's system is basing on a ladder division divided scoring list.
Proven in the RD TCC and now slightly modified for RD GTC. 3 base rules come in to play here:
1st: each person is getting points no matter on what position he is classified and no matter in which division he is driving in. The points are relevant to the level of a division - you get more points be being last in top division than you get by being first in the second div.
2nd: All but the lowest division worst results and all but the top division best results are relegated or promoted. I think its self explanatory.
3rd: Anyone who does not show up with a notice is automatically relegated and when showing up without a notice has His membership questioned or even lost.
Lets keep those points in mind and continue to the fabulous Simracing Team Challange
Oriented fully towards the team effort - individual results are recorded but the points are counted only for the teams account. Some favoring points for this league:
1st: the grid consists of teams that treat this competition as a tradition. Being there is an honor by itself and in fully racing spirit that was achieved by keeping thru seasons and years time.
2nd: The team effort is the only thing that counts. Every STC member knows that its better to get both cars to the finish line on lower standing than to get one yet higher. All classified positions are awarded so everyone tries to get both cars on grid and get to the finish line.
3rd: It does not matter who is racing for a certain team as long as that person really is a member of a team and did not change teams recently or competed in to many races in a season (a limit given)

Now both systems have their pros and cons so shortly:
Brams System (gonna call it that way) has little room for a sensible team championship and once some persons drop out the bottom division can become empty.
The points mentioned however have a triple effect on the motivational aspect: you always race for points, you always have a chance to get higher by promotion or dropped by relegation, you always want to race not to get thrown out and have your reputation ruined
STC system team championship not for individual, and as F1 is a lot for single person challenge it is a con. But a well built team point base encourages team effort. Tradition and prestige is something that will come in time!
Going to continue with conclusions and maybe with some pracical solution but i have to work a little right now

ufunacaoenn · May 31, 2010

Konrad I have to say you where a damn rocket on the straight, I should have done a Famous Redbull and you would be Vettel in this case. How ever that snicky move was SO risky that I had a chans of spining. Btw Did you install F-Duct for this race?

And sorry for that punt but you where braking so wierd that I never imagened to get so close to you. On Nurburgrind I hope that we will have a much longer battle.

Martin Bulgin · May 31, 2010

I am just wondering what effect a possible mod/game change next season will have on both divisions, I know no decisions have been made but lets just imagine for a moment that next season we have moved over to rFactor and the FSOne09 mod, will all of the drivers we have now move over ? I would like to think so but maybe not, also I think there would be guys who are more into rFactor than Race On and would jump at the chance to race in an rFactor F1 league here at RD, I think if we moved to rFactor both divisions would be full at the start of the season and we would have to maybe get through two thirds of the season to see how many drivers are still racing, I dont want to hijack the thread and turn it into a pros and cons of either engine but we do know rFactor is more suitable for simulating F1 the biggest pro being realistically timed pit stops, sorry for rambling and going off topic a bit but I do think the choice of mod we make for next season could have a massive effect on driver participation throughout the season, I dont know why so many have stopped racing in Div 1 but I have noticed in sim racing in general that sometimes you get some guys who are extremely fast over a lap or 2 but cant keep it up for 20 let alone 60 laps, in div2 we seem to have some slower than the top guys but extremely committed to racing who put the practice in and could do 100 lap races if they had to, I dont know just my tuppence ha`penny.