Race #13, Belgium: Post-Race Discussion

[Lee Morris]

Alot of people in this league do not know how to race.. they dont know what racecraft is..they can lead a race and dominate and look great but when it comes to wheel to wheel they aint got a clue... thats obvious..

Alos of people are fair too.. like sunday i had some fantastic racing with mikkonen and dominguez and others too.. tali was a nice battle also.. apart from the lagg which may i add is realy not helping make the racing easier but people that dont get effected dont want to do anything about it... which is not fair when half the league is complaining about it lol..

when i tried to pass tali on his screen i am no where near but on mine im alongside lol.. crazy..

Also.. its always the same people on the same sides.. if precision or twister race each other its normal if ash or FTS race precision we are in spotlight more which means one mistake on eithers behalf its going to go the way of the driver who is not expected to do so well as he has a worse reputation..

its life.. the league is very biased in some cases but thats only due to the fact that underdogs dont win all the time if at all ever... some disagree with others... this is why i learnt this year to just think more about my driving and not be so immature with it... and the same on the forum.. think before post.. and dont be too offensive.. everyone has an opinion and to that they are entitled..

its the same in real life.. people always disagree with moves and overtakes but from my point of view sundays race was actualy quite a clan race.. even in de wits case, the drivers he touched made no effort to even see he was there.. which is not de wits fault.. makes no difference if its half a car or half a tyre if someone is alongside you should respect that and expect them either to back out or keep on it.. cant just blame de wit for it..

If you dont know this you realy need to look at yourself as many times on sunday cars had less than a wheel inside me but i left them room and made no contact..

There is no rule in f1 that states this.. its a gentlemans agreement.. do we have that here in fsr ? no... if we didperhaps overtakes would be more easier to handle and protest etc.. so why dont we have a good chat and sort it out instead of arguing.. this is why the league looks biased to people who watch the broadcasts, we need to communicate better within the league ourselves to improve it as a whole... as i said to nick on phone last night im having a terrible year but i still love racing here its fantastic.. and having sponsors and so on makes it great its just a shame we cant all communicate better..

 

[Dennis Hirrle]

I simply think it's hard to discuss with people who have a totally different and very minority-ish opinion about racing and other things in this league, as you've just shown there.

It's incredible in each of your posts the league gets accused of being biased, for the reason that you or others get penalties for bad driving. This is your fault, not the league's.

It was definitely not a clean race and if you think it was I hope I won't meet you on track anymore. As I said before we've all produced a couple contacts and accidents in our simracing careers, but some do it every race!
This isn't personal Lee, just a different approach I guess, and I think all the clean drivers aren't exactly on the wrong side of things because they're winning races, score podiums and points and don't retire each race. And they have no reason to call Admins being biased, which by the way won't be tolerated any longer if it's just hot air as it currently is.

 

[Raino Rõõm]

What i think about this.... When i see that someone is side of me or i see he closing to me and try to pass , i go defend earlier when he is back of me not side of me,but when he is allmost side of me then i would stay on my line and let him pass to avoid crash, everywhere is possible to try pass him again... i think . But closing the door cruelly is pointless , thats cause problems like this.

Thats my funny story
But now we should end this topic and focus for monza and to better racing

 

[Lee Morris]

see its strange dennis i just had a very constructive conversation on msn with johannes about it all and we had a very good chat about the league etc... and actualy suprisingly he agrees with most of what i put... and im sure he will tell you that...

This is exactly what i was talking about... communication.. we actualy have an idea for you which we hope you and others will like... to hopefully improve this...

this is not hot air.. or a dig at admins or the league its a dig at everyone as people dont communicate... you misread what i put.. johannes seemed to understand what i meant and was actualy realy good to talk to about it.

 

[Mark Aalberts]

This is exactly the point where it goes wrong in my opinion Lee. When you are are only half tyre along it doesnt instantly mean that the driver in front has to give room or will give room. Thats what Dennis and some others are trying to explain, if you gonna overtake you have to be sure about youre overtake and need to make sure its a proper overtake. In my opinion it means you have to be atleast around 75% alongside with youre car to be able to make a proper pass. Those half tyre alongside someone often ends in disaster because the driver in front reaches a point he has to steer in, either he crashes, driver behind crashes or gets damage or front driver gets bashed out of the way. And thats what the people need to learn, when can i pass when should i back off. I sometimes backoff to if im not 100% sure or only half tyre along, people need to learn to do that and judge the situation, some cant judge and just push trough. Half tyre along doesnt automaticly means you will be given room, and most of the time driver in front still has the right of way in bends thats something people should remember. And i think this is one of the main problems here, some drivers think that with half tyre along he has already completed the pass, but thats so wrong but i guess people will be different from opinion.

I have done enough overtakes in WT this year, can make a vid of it to show what i mean i didnt had a single penalty point yet and i cant remember a overtake where i bash someone out of the way. Its all about logical driving and sticking to some rules, know when you are beaten and re try once a new chance will come.

 

[Lee Morris]

so lets discuss this properly.. lets all agree on something that we can work towards instead of opinions... this way.. we can all say well you agreed.. so lets do it..how we all agreed.. we have a proposal for the admins soon anyway which i think is realy good.. such a good idea which i hope everyone will agree with..

 

[Lee Morris]

in answer o your second paragraph... we dont have a team that works like that as we cant find the drivers lol..

id love to be in a team where we all can work together but its not possible in ours all we do is share bts of data.. plus we dont all have the same time to prepare mate as work takes over

But yes i agree safety should be known.. but i have not said anything about the bump in s2 lol ? i know its my fault was just caught out by the cars behavious which i did not like all week tbh..

also yes i just spoke to johanes about this gpda thing its a fantastic idea man..

 

[Lee Morris]

also the remark i made is to thefact that its all well being able to dominate upfront.. but racing in pack is another thing and we have seen it time and timeagain only certain drivers can do it.. look at schumacher.. lol

 

[Lee Morris]

sounds good to me ! lol but no one would want to do that i think due to the setup secrecy haha..

 

[Lee Morris]

true yes there are many of us when you came and spied on us..

But why cant we expect you there and see.. unless you meant that as sarcasm....this is the issue.. communication.. and points out exactly what i think... its like you guys are above us..

 

[Lee Morris]

but why should we all share our data lol.. top speed means nothing as you know its how you achieve it.. like at spa i had highest top speed but didnt mean much lol..

we will have to sort something it is deffinatly a good idea, but i dont speak for myself now as i have been one of the cleanest drivers in the field this year i have no complaints about anything this year anything thats happened has been my own fault.

 

[Dennis Hirrle]

So the idea is the GPDA. Ok. If we are at the point where we need this we've reached a very low point indeed.
Seriously though, drivers can do what they like and if they want to form a group of talk, coffee and tea, go ahead.

It won't change the result though that reckless driving remains reckless driving and will always bring penalties.
I simply don't see any ground for discussion because racing and how to race is clear to most of the drivers.

Honestly I rather get the impression that those who are doing wrong are trying to find excuses or trying to find new ideas to work around things. I'd prefer they focus on themselves, sort out their driving and show a better race in Monza.

Attitude is the problem here, not rules or common sense or anything. There are so many examples, if you remember when Bruno cut too many laps in Barcelona last year or two years ago and was DQ'ed, or when he crashed with Bono this year in Barcelona. He was deeply sorry and actually embarrassed, said sorry and moved on. Most recent example, Nillson in this race in Spa, caught out Kerkhof and was honestly sorry about it, and moved on. Surely there are more examples like this where people just apologize and move on, instead of trying to find excuses, starting endless discussions like others do.
That's the main difference between some drivers, and other drivers. Either you have the correct attitude or you don't.

Don't have to say more at the moment so this was my last reply.

 

[Lee Morris]

its not off topic at all..anyway my last post too i think we all chat in private and see what happeneds cheers all

 

[Jan-Moritz Kammann]

but racing in pack is another thing and we have seen it time and timeagain only certain drivers can do it.. look at schumacher.. lol

LoL.... Sry, Lee but you dont know what you are talking

This maneuver against Rubens was hyped by media.

Earlier days F1 drivers were only driving like this, like Berger said: They would lough about Schumi's penalty.

If you watch Senna, Prost, Mansell... all these drivers you will see that the times just have changed. They were crashing the opponent out to win championships and all that.... even Schumi vs Hill done that.

Anyway, this is again a different story

EDIT:

Just dont wanted to make an extra post here, but Lee I disagree, you didnt watch a lot of races, thats for sure sunshine.

 

[Lee Morris]

i disagree, even senna was crap in traffic racing and only recieved his reputation due to his death... schumacher gets alot of stick but senna did things just as bad and never got any stick for it.. mansell was the only guy who could do things properly in that group you mentioned... berger was never renowned for his overtaking.. and prost was just a snob so i have no idea what you try to point out there... so i guess it is you who has no idea what your taling about sunshine !

 

[Phillip Estrada]

This is exactly the point where it goes wrong in my opinion Lee. When you are are only half tyre along it doesnt instantly mean that the driver in front has to give room or will give room. Thats what Dennis and some others are trying to explain, if you gonna overtake you have to be sure about youre overtake and need to make sure its a proper overtake. In my opinion it means you have to be atleast around 75% alongside with youre car to be able to make a proper pass. Those half tyre alongside someone often ends in disaster because the driver in front reaches a point he has to steer in, either he crashes, driver behind crashes or gets damage or front driver gets bashed out of the way.

I'm going to suggest that this gets put in the rules either now or next year to make it more clear. The current rules don't express this clear enough. I should have or we as a whole should have noticed it or at the time thought it was clear. But yeah, some drivers think having one tire next to the rear tire of the car in front, going in to the haripin, feel they have the right away and then when they crash in to the car in front as he turns in while he's on his racing line, they think it's ok and then they don't give the position back right away.

Phil Estrada
Team owner/manager Twister-Racing
www.twister-racing.net

 

[Johannes Kunkel]

I'm going to suggest that this gets put in the rules either now or next year to make it more clear. The current rules don't express this clear enough. I should have or we as a whole should have noticed it or at the time thought it was clear. But yeah, some drivers think having one tire next to the rear tire of the car in front, going in to the haripin, feel they have the right away and then when they crash in to the car in front as he turns in while he's on his racing line, they think it's ok and then they don't give the position back right away.

Phil Estrada
Team owner/manager Twister-Racing
www.twister-racing.net

I doubt any rule can help as long as the drivers don´t realize what they do wrong.
Saying you have to be 75% or whatever alongside another car isn´t working as measurement. If you brake later and aim for the apex you will easily get alongside the other car but once he turns in you will still T-Bone him and you can still use another car a brakebump to help you make the corner.

The only thing that would help are harsher penalties so if those guys still don´t realize and keep doing it they can be removed from the league.

 

[Karol Poniatowski]

The only thing that would help are harsher penalties so if those guys still don´t realize and keep doing it they can be removed from the league.

sorry, it didnt work in the past and it wont in future. Some mature character aren´t educatable, even not with penalties. In De Wit/my rendezvous the director didnt see it as a case of penalty I even didnt protest because its senseless though, so I or we have to live and deal with it unfortunately...

 

[Jan-Moritz Kammann]

sorry, it didnt work in the past and it wont in future. Some mature character aren´t educatable, even not with penalties. In De Wit/my rendezvous the director didnt see it as a case of penalty I even didnt protest because its senseless though, so I or we have to live and deal with it unfortunately...

Why it should not work?

Imagine this: A driver with the tendence to drive 'dirty' is getting a strong penalty like BOG or even a DQ and cant score points. Which teamchief would accept that atleast for the WC or WS? I guess if you are driving dirty and get harsh penaltys your teamchief will kick you, because there is maybe a slower driver but he can score regularly.

 

[David Dominguez]

Why it should not work?

Imagine this: A driver with the tendence to drive 'dirty' is getting a strong penalty like BOG or even a DQ and cant score points. Which teamchief would accept that atleast for the WC or WS? I guess if you are driving dirty and get harsh penaltys your teamchief will kick you, because there is maybe a slower driver but he can score regularly.

Because it didn't work in the past.