Post for drivers who have no life and need to post every 3 secs to keep admin hapy

[Chirlie Williams]

Just post if your accussed of never being on site , even tho on it every day pfffft . which make us dangerous drivers hahahahahahaha thanks for the massive insult girls. how can i be dangerous if never had an accident and if YOU read posts on site LIKE I DO lol you will read i have great races with other members, so to be called dangerous in a email that every member got is a little noobish is it not .

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Well, did you read this? It ended my race, but you didn't reply or mention it at all:

3. Chirlie 7:33-8:03
I was not aware in the race that we made contact, and I remember it felt like it was my fault, that I could have "saved the car". When I look at the replay I see that it was contact with Chirlie that led to the initial loss of tracktion. However, I still think I could have "saved it", I was probably exhausted

Or what about this one, from the first post about avoiding incidents:

It is extremely important for the survival of the league that we manage to have much less incidents than we have had the two last races. Many destroyed races means loss of motivation which again leads to loss of members which again is demotivation for the rest etc etc. I would like everybody in our league to send an e-mail to the Race Director where you let him know that you understand and agrees with the content of this post, alternatively what you disagree in (nothing wrong with that). But it is important that everybody responds, in other words sends an e-mail to the Race Director.

I know I worded myself poorly in the e-mail, especially when using the words "dangerous driver". I was hoping that everybody would be mature enough to see through that and understand the real meaning.

All the accusasions are not neccesseraly 100% accurate, there is too much information to do a perfect job (one would need to see the complete races of all drivers, and I have no time for that). Instead I have asked a group of members for their subjective views to construct the list that was presented in the e-mail.

how can i be dangerous if never had an accident (...)

Well, you did at least knock me out of the race at Singapore, you can see the video and read about it in the Singapore incident thread... but this you should know if you read the forum every day... something does not add up.

I am a thick skinned person, and I do not care about all the insults you were trying to convey. However, after reading all your post from today I do not think it reflects a person I wish to have in this league.

 

[Tim McIver]

Me and all the other girls await an explanation. He clearly read it all, maybe just ignored it?

 

[Chirlie Williams]

explanation hahaha i was just saying derogatory stuff like that was in the email i got. like dangerous and not on forums . i am also thick skined and if u see any of my posts as insults take it with a pinch of salt like the bla bla email that everyone got about dangerous drivers when there is no need to put it in those words

 

[Chirlie Williams]

and to Nicolai quote: Well, you did at least knock me out of the race at Singapore

can you please watch your replay because i was coming past you into 2 corners under bridge and you turn into my car then spun tryin to keep the power on . we both make contact im not saying we didnt , but once again someone calling someone dangerous when there is just no need.

and im the one in the wrong lol

 

[Tim McIver]

The thing is, it's not about who was in the wrong. It's about the fact that the incident was never discussed in the forums. You must have missed Nico's report, thus, he suggested you need to keep a closer eye on the forums. Surely that's fair?

 

[David Turnbull]

i definatly wouldnt say chirlie is a dangerous driver, ive raced with him since i started playing gtr and im sure sean will agree with that too, i also know he checks the forum regular as im often in his house when hes doing it, i think because your not seeing him make posts you automatically think hes not checking when in fact he is, vincenzo is the same in this respect hes never on the forum at all, really once in a blue moon he makes a post but we know he reads the stuff just like chirlie does, to be honest both of them are 2 of the safest drivers on our grid so it shouldnt matter if they make regular posts at all.

p.s weve all had incidents with each other at some point so i dont think bringing them back up is going to help anyone, the incident shouldve been sorted at the time and not by bringing it up weeks after the event.

(no offence intended to vincenzo i used him as an example, i know its because of his work commitments)

 

[Tim McIver]

I don't understand what you mean David. It's all well and good to read the forums, but if there's an incident and its reported (which it should always be) then both parties need to post. They might even have a heated conversation if it helps, but the one thing they can't do is just ignore it and say nothing.

I also think being rude and childish cannot be excused by simply saying, 'I'm thick skinned, take it like a pinch of salt'. That's not an excuse for rudeness. It's also not true, a thick skinned person generally reacts very differently to a little bit of criticism.

 

[Chirlie Williams]

Thanks for the kind words davie .
im not trying to upset or insult anyone i just dont take kindly to being named as a dangerous driver when i try and take pride in my racing safe .

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

The thing is, it's not about who was in the wrong. It's about the fact that the incident was never discussed in the forums. You must have missed Nico's report, thus, he suggested you need to keep a closer eye on the forums. Surely that's fair?

Exactly my point.

As to answer David, it is not about writing lots of posts, it is about reacting when needed, like when you are mentioned in an incident report or when I ask directly for this.

I am not saying Chirlie is a dangerous driver, I think I said that some of the reason he and Tom was mentioned might be that he is relatively new (again) and it takes time to earn trust. Vincenzo we have raced with in more than 60 races, we know him in and out, Chirlie and Tom has been in 4 races in newer times (I know little of when he was in Div 2).

I am disappointed that my " " around "dangerous driver" is ignored, perhaps it carries no meaning in the UK? my intention was anyway to underline that I do not mean literally dangerous driver, because it is all relative. Generally I would classify all our drivers as safe drivers. However, within our group there aer obviosly some differences as well, and the list was intended as a proxy/guesstimate of these differences.

Now i have to attend to my family, but I'll be back in good time for practice.

 

[David Turnbull]

@ tim, i totally agree with you, weve had our run in's in the past lol but like you said in the previous post he may have missed it, to my knowledge hes always put in an incident report and discussed the incidents that have happened, obviously the singapore one slipped the net.

im not going to say anything about the 2nd part of your post because....we'll should i really make any comment about childish and rude comments on the forum lol im probably not the best advert for friendlyness

@nico, i still dont get your point about "dangerous driver" thats totally the wrong thing to say, someones conduct or whatever in the forums does not equate to being a dangerous driver, maybe this is lost in translation a bit but to me incidents on the track dictate wether your a dangerous driver, i could be seen as a dangerous driver because i'll maybe try a pass when someone else wouldnt, but to be dangerous you have to be on the track and if anything chirlie is very cautious on the track, we watch all the replays of our races together including sean as were all friends, we comment on each others races and incidents, to be honest we all thought the singapore incident was more your own fault nico, if youd let off the power slightly you wouldnt have spun so maybe he didnt think to mention it because he didnt feel it was his fault, i dont know why its not been mentioned i just know chirlie does read posts, he makes comment maybe this one has been missed but dangerous driver he is not.

 

[David Turnbull]

put it another way, in scotland we have a saying "tarring people with the same brush" with using the words "dangerous driver" youve tarred all the people you mentioned in the email with the same brush, we do have some dangerous drivers on the track, i wouldnt call them dangerous because the dont mention an incident though.

 

[Christian Ramlow]

Hey Chrilie be cool .. im a dangerous driver too .. ok i have no incidends with anyone but i am DANGEROUS ! .. we need to life with that.

ooo sry need to stop writing the police standing on my door....

ok irony off now ..

Nico can u tell me why u put zizzo and me in one group off dangerous Driver? i make many mistakes ? and when im behind a car iam too agressive?? or want a fast overtake..

sry pushing or battleing with an opponend is not allowed? i think im very safe to leave Room 4 all Driver´s ... i postet some Videos in Spa of it .. @ Singapur i was behind many cars .. i have no overtake or something cause of no chance .. .. a dangerous Driver use every turn to overtake and going a big risk 4 a crash. i doenst do that !!!!!! in my replay´s i see this season no Situation that iam Dangerous ...

all in all nico im not happy with that mail ..

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I knew this was going to happend as soon as i read email yesterday i knew everyone called dangerous drivers would take it as a insult , i said i wouldnt have used word dangerous drivers it implies that people have been driving dangerously or with intent to cause harm, In chirlies case to be called dangerous driver for not checking forums lol is also abit silly. I know chirlie is on forums prob everyday also maybe doesnt post much but im sure anything needed reply he would and if he missed something would it not be better to maybe another post on forums about it ? rather than a email before race day telling you are dangerous because of it when if anything it makes you uninformed not dangerous. I thinks its just been abit of insult to some guys depending how bad they take it but i could see people give up with this and maybe affect race numbers even league.

All the points in email are prob valid points but its just been they way its said thats has ruffled feathers, i know if i had checked email and seen me in a class 1st 2nd 3rd or the dreaded 4th ? most dangerous driver i would have been very angry.

How would anyone else feel if you were in a class of dangerous drivers ?

I would have said unpredictable drivers something like that rather than say most dangerous, 2nd most dangerous, its just to powerfull a word. I think everyone in league drives to best of there ability and i dont think anyone has driven dangerously sure we will always have incidents in races and accidents thats also sometimes more 1 persons fault than other but theres always going to be them its racing.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Look at it from my side.
After the Singapore and Suzuka race I am confronted with demotivated drivers, something I was expecting because that always happen when we have too many incidents/ruined races. Presto GP is fragile, when we start loosing long running members due to too many incidents it is probably the end of Presto GP as we know it, because I don't have the motivation to put in lots of work into this, it must work by itself.

So what can I do? Sit back and hope that the next race everything is perfect? If I do chances are it is the last race we have. Therefore I decide to do the most effective thing I can do, namely to let the least safe drivers know that they are exactly that, so that they can pay extra focus on being safe.

Now my problem is, how do I know who the least safe drivers are? There is no black and white answer to this question, and my subjective view is as good as anybody else. What I decide to do is to ask 5 Presto GP drivers about their subjective opinion about all our members and then take the average of what they think. What I get is what you were presented with in the RD e-mail.

It was wrong of me to name it "dangerous drivers". i think the most accurate label is "making their co-racers nervous when they get close".

To answer Christian, I think you are on the list because you used to be less safe and more aggressive than you are now. It takes time for everyone to learn that you now are just as safe as the people on the green list, that is only natural. At the time being people still do not feel 100% at ease when they see you in their mirrors, but for every clean race you have people keep on lerning that you are a safe dude and get more and more relaxed.

The same I could say to several of you.

So bottom line, you can claim that 5 drivers are not enough to be representative for the league, but besides that I think you need to accept that this is roughly the way the average co-driver currently sees you.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

In chirlies case to be called dangerous driver for not checking forums lol is also abit silly.

Chirlies place on the list has nothing to do with his forum activity, not directly in any case, it only has to do with 5 drivers' perseption of him.

 

[Valter Ostman]

There are always need for improvements in such a naturally risky business. Everyone wants, of course, that no one should happen to DNF. We must be able to take some critisism from time to time. It's not always a very gratifying job, leading a group of competitive guys, so that everyone gets enjoyment from the activity. I'm grateful to you all (especially Nicolai) that I have such a fun league to compete in. Let's improve safety in every contest we run.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

@nico, i still dont get your point about "dangerous driver" thats totally the wrong thing to say, someones conduct or whatever in the forums does not equate to being a dangerous driver, maybe this is lost in translation a bit but to me incidents on the track dictate wether your a dangerous driver,

Although forum activity has little to do with the list, I strongly disagree with you. Accidents happen, but how people react to them in the forum strongly influences the way I see the person in future races. A prompt post with a genuine display of regret tells me that this person really am sorry and will naturally try to avoid this in the future. If he sais nothing, or just write a short post, demonstrating that he has not put much thought into the incident, I get more worried that this might happen again.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I know its with good intentions to improve league way we race and in no way you meant to class them all as dangerous drivers. I think looking as if a driver on that list i would be even more nervous when racing so worried if i made mistake and then caused accident now it would be taken as dangerous drivers fault. I think alot of added pressure for poeple who are no doubts have already been trying to be safe maybe now are worried about racing. I know this because i have been told today , ' i dont think ill be racing tonight because crapping myself ill make mistake now and ruin some1s race'

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

One last thing, it seems the name "dangerous driver" is the major catalyst for people becomming so angry and forgetting that my main objective is to make this as saif and fair as I am able to do.

I took a lot of my valuable spare time and stayed up after 1pm in the morning to write this e-mail, with only the aim to help the league. I knew it was risky and tried to explain my reasons and asked for forgiveness if I offended anyone.

Although I agree I made a bad choice of words, that does not seem to affect most of you. You are aware that I am Norwegian and not English and that it might not sound that bad in my language? My only intention was to group the drivers in categories, call them whatever you like, it is not the point, I just wish to convey who are presived as second most safest, third most safest, forth most safest and fifth most safest.

I am acctually quite upset with Sean and David, I thought they knew me better. Instead of understand the intention of the e-mail and try to explain your friend in a constructive manner, you get caught up in minor details and make things worse. I totally accept constructive feedback, saying that they can understand that Chirlie is upset and that I worded myself poorly etc etc. I also totally accept if you disagree with some of the content and say e.g. that you do not think that Chirlie belongs in that category.