Tracks L.A Canyons

[Stereo]

I think the current shoulder width is OK, assuming it's intended to be a full-width shoulder where you can pull your car off and get entirely out of the road. That's pretty common on rural 2-lane highways here in Kansas, not sure about the LA canyons.

I think it depends on the section, the Angeles Crest Hwy's a 2 or 3 lane highway and has paved shoulders but they're not cleaned the way the road is so near the hills they've got a lot of rock/gravel on top. Big Tujunga's got a narrow gravel shoulder which would probably leave enough room to pull off but not suitable for driving at 70km/h on.

 

[aphidgod]

Again, no argument here - clearly the entire route is not shouldered like this. I'm just saying, for the sections that are, it's not wildly out of proportion. Narrower stretches of road are clearly all over the place and yeah, I wouldn't want to spend too much time apexing on the shoulders either way. (Same goes for my local highways.)

 

[Phoenix77]

I think it's the same spot for me... and every time I try to wrestle the car back up the cliffs, unsuccessfully Corners are a little tricky in the RAC due to the combination of no rear ARB and the blown diffusor (and my lack of setup-guruness) - it stays planted as long as you have the foot on the throttle, once you have to suddenly lift it goes 50% of the time

But there are certainly a bunch of parts of the track I already recognise from the Smoking Tire videos, especially that fast downhill section.

Nice one mate... Did my hints about in the Track Support section help your wheel shake less then? or are you just and bearing it? Glad the track is recognisable

 

[Phoenix77]

The whole way of taking pictures is overly complicated and not very rewarding, be it via photo app ingame or in replay or just screenshots. Being able to adjust the sun is a nice addon. That being said I do come from the world of GT and if there's one thing that engine and interface can do it's taking pictures

Sorry for the spam, looking at the NFS thread I had to think of this GT2 version the whole time .

No worries about the spam lol But probably better to keep it from Assetto.. But have to agree GT has pretty much always gone for making screenshots easy.
I'm not sure I can look at that gorgeous Lambo for a while now... Probably until it's released... Too much excitement lol

Odometer app is invaluable here... I got 41.5km in before sliding off a cliff. Time to try again.

That app is certainly useful in general, you do some most excellent apps... The JoyCam is awesome too.. flying around looking at track details (or in Canyons present state... Lack of details lol)

 

[Phoenix77]

I did it! Under 10mins, clean lap (on RSR)

9:39.5 with the Formula Hybrid 2017

Hard tyres, 2 laps of fuel (did 3 sighter laps to get fuel and tyre usage), 99% grip and medium/low aero.

Definitely can be beaten, as I still don't 100% know the track yet (especially near the end), plus I'm far from a quick driver anyway. Was a lot of fun though.

I took my own advice and did some 90% push laps to get a feel without risking falling off, definitely helped both with learning the track and learning how much fuel and tyres last. The hards seem to drop off near the end of lap 1, so lap 2 and 3 didn't have the ultimate grip but they seem to level out which is nice.

Overall, I did around 142miles worth of driving in that session - 3 sighter laps plus 2 100% push laps (although the first was a lot of falling off...).

I can finally forget trying to get under 10mins and enjoy some slower cars now

Excellent driving mate You win the bonus points... whatever they are worth...
Seeing as @Brandon Wright was using it as a Jedi Trial... That possibly now makes you a Jedi Knight (I hope that helps with your modding lol)

And thanks for the comparison photo's they're certainly not spamming in any way And may be useful at some point (IF I can remember what page of this thread they're on at a later date)

If the performance is ok at a later stage... I will probably be tempted to put in quite long sections of some of the connecting roads... Because if you have a look at them they're also pretty awesome and twisty...
And if people do start hosting servers on this track, maybe for need for speed car chases... There will be the side roads to go down to hide from the police

And agree about the bumpier downhill section (before the right turn into upper big T) That will need sorting at a later date (I'm working on Pacific for around the next 3 - 4 weeks as it's having a TOTAL overhaul)

 

[Phoenix77]

I've been trying the track few days ago, and sure looks promising. One thing: why do I have this feeling that the road is too wide?

Glad you're liking it mate... Maybe you're thinking it's too wide because you're not falling off it as much as Pacific?

 

[Phoenix77]

Regarding the discussions as to whether or not the road is too wide...
Just like with the Pacific Coast discussions about it being too narrow....

I'll make it how I make it.....
(with some artistic license for playabilities sake)
For example... The tunnel is straighter in real life... My thinking on this is to make the two curves either side to facilitate faster entries to the tunnel..
Also to get the flow I want, the splines which are used for the track affect each other... bezier curve handles (or whatever they're called) and I've removed all the unnecessary nodes... So the road is in effect pulled tighter along the whole length...
Which makes some of the straighter sections very slightly more curved.

For those that are measuring the track width....lol

Just drive the damn thing lol

The constant shoulder thing does kind of bother me... But for playabilities sake... I also don't mind it.. So it's probably just going to be one of those things!

 

[Phoenix77]

Also I personally think the road width looks fine when in the car... The temporary track cams (Which I only used to check things out quickly) make the track width look more pronounced. I only included the cams so that it has some cams... That's all...
When either I or anyone else makes some more decent cams, it will look better.

As I've already stated (in whatever thread I was in at the time ) I will probably be trimming a foot or so off the shoulders, for the transition textures.. When I have a play about with them, and work out how to use Alpha blending without getting crappy flickering. Some sections of the shoulders may also get a slight dusting of sand on them. I want them to be there for emergencies... But also want to have some sort of penalty for going in them (without invalidating the lap).

 

[Phoenix77]

I raise you 30:24.194 - And this was a balls out, pedal to the metal pushing lap

I actually think its a little too quick, I haven't driven this in some time but I was flying through the bends, seeing peaks of 0.8 lat G... I think the tyres need looking at again.
Damn slow on anything remotely uphill... Can almost hit 70mph downhill bits though

Balls out Gary?.... No wonder it took half an hour... That's bound to create extra drag! lmao

I was going to say, I really appreciate your enthusiasm for my track... But somehow that doesn't sound quite right saying that now! lol

 

[Phoenix77]

There seems to be some very steep cambers on this road, especially in the first section - is the road shaping accurate to real life? Or have the cambers been exaggerated in order to improve the flow of the road?

They're overall reasonably accurate, with some artistic license...
(for all those people that inevitably will fall off looking at the mountains in the distance lol)

The road is 16m wide (52.5 feet), from the section I measured. A quick search says the standard Interstate lane width is 3.7m, or 12 feet. This is more than twice as wide as a double-lane road

I disagree that it's twice the width.. But there has to be some balance between realism and playability... Factor in that maybe in future there maybe some police cruisers chasing you down.. And you'll be glad of the extra room

I may in future updates be reducing the shoulders somewhat... By which time people that have been driving a lot of miles around here won't need the shoulders...
While the perfectionist hemisphere of my brain wants it just as it is in real life...
The realistic hemisphere of my brain isn't going to walk around 26 miles of track making sure all the rocks are where they should be

 

[A3DR]

I still couldn't complete a lap with my Diablo, there's always a new blind corner that it likes to fly off... I'll keep trying though, it's a good exercise.

 

[garyjpaterson]

I know its supposed to be a British Hot Rod, this thing feels right at home here!

Quite a cautious lap despite some scenic adventures, managed a 17:40 which is a big improvement over the 30min+ the stock car does! (88mph average )

Bit of wall riding never did any harm

 

[Phoenix77]

I still couldn't complete a lap with my Diablo, there's always a new blind corner that it likes to fly off... I'll keep trying though, it's a good exercise.

Very nice to have your Diablo literally flying round here mate... Maybe try the F1 under 10 minutes challenge that @garyjpaterson completed. After that you should know the corners better... Although... Looking at Garys photo's above... He may not totally have learnt them

I know its supposed to be a British Hot Rod, this thing feels right at home here!
Quite a cautious lap despite some scenic adventures, managed a 17:40 which is a big improvement over the 30min+ the stock car does! (88mph average )

Bit of wall riding never did any harm

That Anglia with fatter tyres and lowered looks sweet mate... A black skin with flames will look totally awesome Nice wall ride mate... When I put the barriers in you will be able to do a few grinds as well lol 17:40... that's a massive performance difference!

I really find it flattering that you seriously talented modellers are taking your most epic creations round here... Awesome stuff Glad to have you putting some virtual rubber down on the tarmac (And walls)

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I disagree that it's twice the width.. But there has to be some balance between realism and playability.

I'm not trying to be an arse, honest, or to start an argument - I was just measuring your mesh, and reading how wide roads in the USA are. The mesh gives 16m of usable road - that is a fact. Standard highways have 3.7m lanes - that is also a (wiki) fact. Looking at the road on GE, except for the 'passing places' most of the shoulders seem about half the width (or less) of one lane, so 1.85 + 3.7 + 3.7 + 1.85 = 11.1m. I agree, not twice as wide, but still 50% wider than it should be. I know if Nords was 13-14m wide all the way around it wouldn't be half as much fun.

I just know from my own track making projects, that sometimes it is easy to make a track wider than it should be because it allows you to go faster, when really what you (I) want is for the track to be more challenging. I like tracks that force me to have to wait... wait... wait... until I can really put my foot down. If the track is too wide (read 'too easy') it takes away some of the challenge, and the fun.

But, regardless of my opinion, people seem to love it, so... carry on as you are carrying on

 

[garyjpaterson]

Have to agree with @Fat-Alfie's view on track width - for me getting it as close as possible to real life is best, but after having a good look at the real version I know its no easy task, as it seems really variable!

Don't get me wrong, the flow is awesome just now, but I certainly would love the greater challenge given by the narrower road, and it would really make us rethink the way we lap.

That being said, I've loved every second on it so far, and will continue to do so regardless of where it goes in future, so I'm behind it no matter what

Although... Looking at Garys photo's above... He may not totally have learnt them

That Anglia with fatter tyres and lowered looks sweet mate... A black skin with flames will look totally awesome Nice wall ride mate... When I put the barriers in you will be able to do a few grinds as well lol 17:40... that's a massive performance difference!

Nah mate, wall running was all part of the plan... Yeah, some hot rod paintjobs should really look cool, looking forward to that.

And 400+bhp certainly makes the difference. I was super cautious on the brakes for the most part (though clearly not enough ), and was feeling very tail happy at the end. Under 17min should be more than possible

Just downloaded the latest Pacific Coast version, as I realised I wasn't up to date Away to try and learn that one now!

 

[Phoenix77]

I'm not trying to be an arse, honest, or to start an argument - I was just measuring your mesh, and reading how wide roads in the USA are. The mesh gives 16m of usable road - that is a fact. Standard highways have 3.7m lanes - that is also a (wiki) fact. Looking at the road on GE, except for the 'passing places' most of the shoulders seem about half the width (or less) of one lane, so 1.85 + 3.7 + 3.7 + 1.85 = 11.1m. I agree, not twice as wide, but still 50% wider than it should be. I know if Nords was 13-14m wide all the way around it wouldn't be half as much fun.

I just know from my own track making projects, that sometimes it is easy to make a track wider than it should be because it allows you to go faster, when really what you (I) want is for the track to be more challenging. I like tracks that force me to have to wait... wait... wait... until I can really put my foot down. If the track is too wide (read 'too easy') it takes away some of the challenge, and the fun.

But, regardless of my opinion, people seem to love it, so... carry on as you are carrying on

No worries mate, that's all cool... It's just my design criteria is probably less... What's the way to say it?... Accuracy based. Technically accurate and authenticity are great and all... Like your Thomson Road... Lilski's Riverside, Bridgehampton etc etc... While the perfectionist in me... would like to hit that level... I'm also not too concerned if it isn't 100% accurate. Fun is my main design critera.

There are a number of reasons why I'm not too concerned that the width may be a bit O.T.T... Firstly as I said for playabilities sake... Also the AI seem to overtake more proficiently if the track/road has more width... Along Pacific Coast they don't seem to go for the overtake as much as I'd like...

Hey mate, the bottom line is I appreciate your comments and opinions as much as everyone elses... But some of these opinions are conflicting... Some people like having the shoulders adding a bit more room for error... Some people think it's too wide... What's that saying... "you can please some of the people, some of the time" etc.

When I sort things out later... like I said... A ft or so each side will probably be coming off... and I will probably be eating into the sections that are valid_track=1
In it's present state... It's just the way it is for simplicities sake. A very long spline going round some mountains... I have already spent FAR more time on this track than I intended. The fact this track even exists is down to luck... It was only going to be a little test area for Pacific Coast.

I can appreciate what you say about the challenge... With my track... probably the challenge is coming round a blind corner too fast and ending up going flying... The challenge is there... It's just a different challenge.
This challenge is... Machine vs Road... And as Gary demonstrated nicely (lol)... Machine vs Terrain as well.

Again no worries about your opinions mate... Even if I don't totally agree with someone... There are also useful bits of information to gather. And at least you explain why your opinion is how it is

Remember though, this is only a 0.3... It's extremely early days... Check out the difference between Pacific Coast 0.3 and the current version (Which still has a large amount of work left to do).

 

[Phoenix77]

Have to agree with @Fat-Alfie's view on track width - for me getting it as close as possible to real life is best, but after having a good look at the real version I know its no easy task, as it seems really variable!

Don't get me wrong, the flow is awesome just now, but I certainly would love the greater challenge given by the narrower road, and it would really make us rethink the way we lap.

That being said, I've loved every second on it so far, and will continue to do so regardless of where it goes in future, so I'm behind it no matter what



Nah mate, wall running was all part of the plan... Yeah, some hot rod paintjobs should really look cool, looking forward to that.

And 400+bhp certainly makes the difference. I was super cautious on the brakes for the most part (though clearly not enough ), and was feeling very tail happy at the end. Under 17min should be more than possible

Just downloaded the latest Pacific Coast version, as I realised I wasn't up to date Away to try and learn that one now!

Yeah I know what you mean... But again... If it was narrow I'd be having people saying it's too narrow... I keep falling off.. I will nibble away at the track width when I start refining it mate I kept it between the white lines on my 10:07 lap... At the moment I'm just leaving it as a gentlemans agreement to keep it between the lines. The width will more than likely be shrinking by a few feet.

Bear in mind with the latest Pacific Coast version... That the bushes are extremely badly optimised... Basically I need to block them up into bigger sections so less drawcalls. If you have performance issues... rename 41.kn5 so the bushes don't load. Also I'm applying the same track flow thing to Pacific (keeping the same width as it has already)... So maybe don't spend too long learning it, as the bankings, elevations and radii will be changing.

Glad you're loving the Canyons mate... As I said before... It almost didn't happen... except it took over and became it's own thing, thanks to Matt Farahs 488 GTB video mainly.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

All good points, and accepted Great work on it so far, and I am very impressed by your dedication and ability to work on such a long track

How about making the shoulders 'not valid', so 2 wheels over the line = invalid lap? That might keep people a bit more honest, allow more room for error, and if people just want to go flat out, they could use Practice mode Just a thought...

 

[Phoenix77]

All good points, and accepted Great work on it so far, and I am very impressed by your dedication and ability to work on such a long track

How about making the shoulders 'not valid', so 2 wheels over the line = invalid lap? That might keep people a bit more honest, allow more room for error, and if people just want to go flat out, they could use Practice mode Just a thought...

I said about that earlier... and I think one or two people dis-agreed.
That is the way I think it should be... and how it will probably end up... The current version of the track... Is a beginners version lol Think of the shoulders as stabilisers! lol

If (more like when) I make the shoulders invalid track... people will still be able to get most of their car in it... as long as 1 wheel stays between the white lines. That's pretty much what I'm after.

I'll have to have a think of various options.. But the shoulders will be shrinking... And I have to admit.. I will be very tempted to make it more like real life,
as it already stands.. the actual main lanes are a generous width.
We shall see... By the time I get back to working on Canyons... I'm sure there will be more feedback / opinions.

 

[A3DR]

9:50, about 30 seconds after passing through the tunnel and this happens...