Is VR Great?

[wajdi]

Pimax Crystal is the best vr headset in term of clarity . It’s so crisp and beautiful. Too bad the comfort sucks.
I hope they can remake the case design with the 12K. They just don’t need to put every damn thing their . No need for standalone, wireless……. Battery … just make a pcvr headset with lenses, outside inside tracking and that’s it. Even auto ipd and eye tracking no need for it.

 

[gamma123152]

Pimax Crystal is the best vr headset in term of clarity . It’s so crisp and beautiful. Too bad the comfort sucks.
I hope they can remake the case design with the 12K. They just don’t need to put every damn thing their . No need for standalone, wireless……. Battery … just make a pcvr headset with lenses, outside inside tracking and that’s it. Even auto ipd and eye tracking no need for it.

I dont have issues with the comfort but I still ordered the official comfort mod. Its shipped already: https://pimax.com/crystal-comfort-topstrap-goes-on-sale/

The small foam was terrible to me but the Crystal is for my headshape very comfortable with the big foam.

Yes the software has been improved massively with the last update. The battery is a non issues now too, it simply functions as a counterweight. I never have to remove it and I can use the HMD 6-8 hours. With a small break it recharged already, and I never use VR that long. The clarity/resolution are indeed unmatched. Sad that it doesn't work with your face shape.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The first VR-4 person I know of who took delivery describes it as "perfect".

I heard Bradley say was that the color and blacks aren't as good as uOLED

Dual mini-LED displays
3840 x3744 resolution at 51 PPD
120° x 105° field of view
98% sRGB, 96% DCI-P3 color space

If you are fine with 1kg on your head and a 4K price tag, it's shipping now

 

[wajdi]

I really would order it ( I have the 1700$ refund from Pimax and today I sold the Crystal for 1400 $ so I have 3100$) but the big question.,, is the 4090/13900 enough to run it?
I

 

[gamma123152]

The first VR-4 person I know of who took delivery describes it as "perfect".

I remember that the first testers also said that about the Aero. We have to wait for more info/opinions/reviews.

"98% sRGB, 96% DCI-P3 color space". The Aero also had great color specs on paper, but in reality the contrast was bad. This is probably better, but I wonder how good their local dimming is implemented, with the Aero they never managed to activate it.

"I heard Bradley say was that the color and blacks aren't as good as uOLED". I also understood from sadly that it had some mild warping distortion, but he seem to have issues with aspherical lenses (way more then others) in general. The colors of the Crystal are as good as OLED and the blacks are close to it, it's unclear how good the XR4 is in terms of their local dimming software implementation.

"If you are fine with 1kg on your head and a 4K price tag, it's shipping now ". 1KG is not an issue of course, but it's around 6.000 euro since you want lighthouse tracking and you need to pay tax. So it's insane.

"3840 x3744 resolution at 51 PPD" I understood that the full resolution wasn't usable with OpenXR/SteamVR applications and that the full 51PPD only worked for enterprice apps. So that normal games only worked up to around 30/35PPD or something. That there was some kind of "limitation" for games. Is this true? I'm not able to find the source of this... If that's the case then the whole device is useless for consumers. Since the main/ONLY benefit of the XR4 is of course the resolution (this since the Somnium VR1 comes with the same nits and FoV for probably a third of the price).

 

[RCHeliguy]

I understood they can get around the resolution restrictions and it wasn't going to be that big a deal.

As far as mild warping, I think he mentioned that was only on the very outer edges of the display which has a noticeably improved FOV especially vertically.

But I'm sure we'll have plenty of additional information coming soon and either it will be all that or it won't be.

The fact that Bradley is considering buying the VR-4 despite its price tag says a lot about his overall impressions of it.

It also seems that mbucchia is interested in this headset, so it will likely get some of his DFR love.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I really would order it ( I have the 1700$ refund from Pimax and today I sold the Crystal for 1400 $ so I have 3100$) but the big question.,, is the 4090/13900 enough to run it?
I

The VR Flight Sim Guy says he'll have one in January and he is running a 4090 as well, so I guess we will find out more then.

By the few accounts I've heard, despite its weight, it is supposed to be comfortable. The breathable head supports look pretty nice.

The one area of concern I currently have about the Somnium VR1 is that they really don't have a well thought out head strap solution, at least that I've seen to date. Varjo appears to have been all over this aspect of their design.

However given how loose the Aero felt on my face, I couldn't image trying a VR-4. If it didn't feel like it held my head well at its weight, it would likely drive me crazy.

As you know the Beyond's head strap solution is very weak.

The aftermarket Quest 2 head support works well, but I did find that I had to secure the tensioning on the strap to keep it on properly. I don't see this so it's not a major concern, but it definitely looks hacked.

 

[gamma123152]

As far as mild warping, I think he mentioned that was only on the very outer edges of the display which has a noticeably improved FOV especially vertically.

Yes, this is also what I heared, that's a huge issue even "mild warping" is still warping, because I saw constantly the warping in the outer edges of the Aero. Constantly, it ruined the whole experience for me, so I hope that it's 99% reduced compared to the Aero.

The one area of concern I currently have about the Somnium VR1 is that they really don't have a well thought out head strap solution, at least that I've seen to date. Varjo appears to have been all over this aspect of their design.

Well the Aero was the most uncomfortable headset that I've owned. So not much trust there.

We'll see, this all still looks promising for an Aero 2. The XR4 is not a realistic HMD for consumers because of the 6K price tag.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Published FOV measurements on Arch's head, sorted by horizontal FOV:
Quest 2: 88°h 80°v
Pico Neo 3 Pro 88°h 88°v
G2: 92°h 80°v
Vive XR Elite 92°h 80°v
Aero: 98°h 76°v
Pimax Crystal 100°h 90°v
Pico 4 100°h 94°v
Quest Pro 102°h 90°v
Valve index 108°h 96°v
HTC Vive Pro2 112°h 80°v
Vr1 thin facial 116°h 94°v
Vr1 thick facial 118°h 96°v

I don't understand how the thin has a lower FOV than the thick facial cushion on the VR1. I wonder if that's a typo.

People buying the VR-4 aren't concerned about light houses and likely already own them. Some are coming from Aeros. I already know half a dozen people who have ordered one. Go figure! The bottom line is that someone buying a VR-4 likely has a pile of headsets already of many different types.

I just heard one guy say he was going to use the VIVE Deluxe Audio Strap on the VR1. So I guess that is one solution to the head strap issue.

 

[gamma123152]

Published FOV measurements on Arch's head, sorted by horizontal FOV:
Quest 2: 88°h 80°v
Pico Neo 3 Pro 88°h 88°v
G2: 92°h 80°v
Vive XR Elite 92°h 80°v
Aero: 98°h 76°v
Pimax Crystal 100°h 90°v
Pico 4 100°h 94°v
Quest Pro 102°h 90°v
Valve index 108°h 96°v
HTC Vive Pro2 112°h 80°v
Vr1 thin facial 116°h 94°v
Vr1 thick facial 118°h 96°v

I don't understand how the thin has a lower FOV than the thick facial cushion on the VR1. I wonder if that's a typo.

People buying the VR-4 aren't concerned about light houses and likely already own them. Some are coming from Aeros. I already know half a dozen people who have ordered one. Go figure! The bottom line is that someone buying a VR-4 likely has a pile of headsets already of many different types.

And Voodoo's measurements, sorted by horizontal fov:
G2: 88°h 80°v
Quest 2: 88°h 88°v
Bigscreen Beyond 94°h 88°v
HTC Vive Pro2 96°h 90°v
Pico 4 96°h 96°v
Quest 3: 100°h 98°v
Pimax Crystal 102°h 100°v
Valve index 106°h 98°v
Vr1 thick facial 108°h 96°v
Pimax 8Kx 138°h 98°v

Very disappointing. I expected much more from the dual lens design of the VR1.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FWIW, I'm getting 87 V x 98H with the Beyond with the thick cushion.
I'm expecting the the thin cushion will get me into the 90+V x 100+H category.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Looks like the VR1 is also not working for Brad. "There’s one major thing for me that needs to be fixed in the optics hardware. Until then, I can’t really judge the other stuff too much than just saying: it’s definitely an aspheric HMD".

I just heard that there is an issue with the optics stack for the test headset and Artur says it will be fixed.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I really would order it ( I have the 1700$ refund from Pimax and today I sold the Crystal for 1400 $ so I have 3100$) but the big question.,, is the 4090/13900 enough to run it?
I

I just heard that local dimming is working with the XR-4.

One guy is saying he can't tell the difference between 50ppd in the XR-4 and the 70ppd center of the VR-3.

Early days, but tests without DFR are definitely hard in MSFS because of the crazy high resolution. He says it stayed at 55ppd and did not down shift to a lower resolution. Hopefully with DFR things will improve.

" it is extremely sharp as well in MSFS. But it must be rendering at some very high resolution. My standard-test (some landing challenge) is now running at 24 FPS instead if 50. I thought that without FR, the XR-4 would drop back to 30 PPD resolution, this is not happening for me"

In DCS the DFR works out of the box and he was getting 85 fps !!!

The comments are that it is extremely comfortable and it is very well balanced.

 

[Neilski]

His rig is good enough to generate Moiré patterns between HMD displays and (GH5) sensor.

To my mind, the presence of Moiré fringes just means that he's able to get a crisp focus; it's not in itself a sign that the pupil location/size is correct.

 

[blekenbleu]

it's not in itself a sign that the pupil location/size is correct.

Agreed, and

• since developers deliberately design VR optics for peak center resolution,
  instead of edge to edge, some separate resolution test target is wanted,
  which none use.
• since Moiré pattern is visible, camera was of insufficient resolution
  to capture appearance as seen by eye.
  YouTube reviewers naturally employ cameras suited to
  YouTube video production rather than image quality evaluation.

 

[gamma123152]

Sad news for the G2 owners among us: https://www.newsdirectory3.com/micr...ws-mixed-reality-feature-as-of-december-2023/

Deprecated features in the Windows client - What's new in Windows

Review the list of features that Microsoft is no longer actively developing in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

learn.microsoft.com

Windows Mixed Reality is deprecated and will be removed in a future release of Windows. This deprecation includes the Mixed Reality Portal app, and Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR and Steam VR Beta.

 

[metalnwood]

Thats a bummer but I hope that it lasts out until I want a replacement for the G2. For the end user this short article doesnt really say what it means to the end user. Deprecated things can go on for a very long time in the software world, even with updates at times and is at least a bit better then end of life.

 

[Insert Coin]

Wrong thread guys

 

[RCHeliguy]

6 years ago, the first WMR headset was released
3 years ago the last WMR headset was released.
~1 year ago the MS WMR team was disbanded.

The writing was on the wall for this, but as mentioned, deprecated initially means no future development. Historically MS doesn't remove deprecated features for at least a couple years, but it varies widely by product.

However, I do think that Meta and Steam working together is good for us. It's just a shame that there are so many new Meta exclusive titles out there. But this is a win:win. Steam gets more business and Meta Headset owners get to play everything, so the Quest value proposition only goes up.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Just started to read the first complaints about the VR-4 inside out tracking "Tracking should be in par with G2 and the likes. It is really "swimming". " Ouch!

I'm sure they'll improve it over time, but I hate to hear that. I never had any tracking issues with my Aero using light houses.