GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[ronniej]

Cynical much??

Lately, yes. I'm waiting to see the Dalai Lama about it. I'm turning into my Grandfather.

dude, that would be a pretty bad investment regarding RRE. and no marketing-campaign can help RRE these guys here@rd also have to pay their bills (well, i guess ), so what if they get some 'candy' for their articles as long they are not biased towards a company. others don't need much marketing, they convince with what they have

Agreed, I'm just bored again and forum trolling. However, I'm mostly mad at myself for supporting R3E as much as I did in hopes that it would progress like AC did.

 

[Ryan Robbins]

I loved GTR 2, especially the Power and Glory Mod . I think a few of the modern sins are just as good though, but more expensive for what you get.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Huge positive impact yeah. Like seriously dude! At least I mean, if you don't give a ****, be decent man, at least.

What is this response supposed to mean?

 

[Jimmy Broadbent]

This article inspired a video, so thanks for that!

 

[Joerg Baermann]

D*** you Paul, you just had to make me buy it
I added GTR2_OFP.exe, GTR2 HQ MODS COLLECTION v3_0 by GTR233 and GEMFX [with SweetFX] v1.0.8__GTR2_PRESET, using it's natural preset instead of colored and enabled bloom at subtle settings.
Looks pretty descent with that, pitcrew textures could be better though, plus that AA isn't the best either.
Got the camera and FOV adjusted (fov: left CTRL + left mouse button and scroll up/down, seat adjustment: left/right mouse button and scroll up/down), works fine for the cockpit, yet the tracks still lack proper FOV, they kinda look narrow and longer than they should, could be an issue with 21:9 resolutions.
FFB feels a bit wonky and lacks out on details, but not so bad that it makes the game undriveable, Race07 feels a bit better there.

 

[Stephen O'Sullivan]

Scraper said: ↑
Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period.

Ahhhhww Paul mate, you know what I think. Anyways, if you'd get the present time covered appropriately I'd not complain mate.

That GTR2 quote: I never said that. Unless the forum software is in error, I think you have your quotes mixed up.

 

[Dave_6]

I'm gonna fire this up again today once I get home from work. Been a while since I've played it but this thread has made me want to revisit it. I've obviously got the 1.1 and no CD patches installed along with the feels read mod that made the FFB feel better IMO. I need to try out the P&G mod if the install doesn't look too complicated.

 

[David Dominguez]

(Game) Stock Car (Extreme), DTM / ADAC GT Masters Experiences.

See, GSC kind of proves that getting specific series doesn't equal to being successful. They had to add loads of more popular racing series (non licensed most of them) later on to keep the business alive.

GTR2 was very successful according to some because it was a complete product and blabla. Then some years later AC is equally successful, if not more, without many of those features. But guess what, both had 2 things in common: decent driving experience, and Ferraris/Porsches/similars.

Get those things together and chances of being successful are huge. But of course, the 2nd point is expensive (let alone fully licensed series...).

 

[Miroslav Davidovic]

Scraper said: ↑
Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period.



That GTR2 quote: I never said that. Unless the forum software is in error, I think you have your quotes mixed up.

Uhm strange, I thought I quoted Paul actually. That is why I mentioned him.
Not sure what happened.

As for the topic If any dev would take such an approcha today to create a single series simulation. It most likely would turn out great or even awesome. Would it be sold a lot? No clue.

But if slightly causual approach used, probabaly a lot. Might be the main reason such sims are rare.
Once you have the engine adding more cars seems only logical, wiht more cars come more features etc etc.

I think a lot of people are sceaming for something they at the end would not appreaciate as much as they claim they would.
As allways difficult to read through the noise. If devs would finnish of games and start every year to push out a new game imagine that noise. Just like in case of Reiza.

It seems very hard for people to appreaciate what they acutally have now. I am not even sure if they are aware for the most part. Everybody knows better how to and what to do. Strange world.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

This article inspired a video, so thanks for that!

Super stuff Jimmy, love that vid,

 

[Damage Inc]

Only game that come close to GTR2 is PCARS...after seeing some of new pictures and videos and other info, i think PCARS 2 will surpass GTR2, if we look whole picture. Only problem are physics. If this game would nail it, that would be new GTR...but we all know that this won't happen. Just maybe.

If SMS could get an official series license and do full "experience" (to nab a term from Simbin/S3) then I agree with you. Personally if they could get the WEC license it would be a perfect match. Physics wise I'm hearing good things so I'm hopeful on that front (not that I personally feel there's much wrong with PCARS, some weird foibles and some dodgy cars aside).

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Is it that time again already.

 

[Radu Oros]

Who would buy a copy of GTR2 made in the image of a new game from a different studio. But copy the physics, graphics, sounds, content list, features, menu options. What would you think? Someone trying to sell an old game not up to today's standards.

GTR2 was made by a team bigger than other sim teams, except pcars and iracing. Which means they needed bigger investment than other sim studios, except pcars and iracing.

Now fast forward to present times (2012-2016), to make a game as good and complete as GTR2 but up to today's standards you'd need an even bigger investment than the team made in 2005 with GTR2.

My conclusion of this debate is that many think any studio can easily come up with fully licensed racing series and complete sim games that suit those racing series, in today's internet and video game industry, but many of them don't really put themselves in the body of a company owner who has to call the shots and make the investment to fulfill this "dream of sim racers for the best and most complete sim racing game". But this "best and most complete sim racing game" will get boring after three months for the casual players and the rest of the active playing base will remain reduced to no much better than the current reality.

In my opinion sim racers are focusing too much on the wrong aspects of game features in a sim racing game. "The best and most complete sim game", "full dynamic day night weather", "full racing series + its features". Basically sim racers want to satisfy their niche desires, no matter how much it will cost the studio to produce and maintain all this, and how many players will continuously use all this. And then sim racers say, "we don't want a game every year and we don't want a dlc every four months".

But sim racers forget that the best examples of modern most popular games (outside racing games genre) are based on adequate graphics, adequate features, with great gameplay yet approachable and high skill ceiling at the same time, great multiplayer yet simple structure that makes many players just connect and get queued for a match of similar skill, and adequate broadcasting+esports (LAN tournaments) features.

I read some say in this thread that if you vote with your wallet in mediocre games you get exactly that. But the biggest problem actually comes from what sim racers want, and they often want the wrong things that won't make the game nor its playing base grow. If you keep thinking on "great games" from the last two decades, that's what you'll get.

 

[Piero Favretti]

After reading this article I figured I should re-install GTR2. After doing so I remembered why I had to stop using it. Maybe someone can help me, GTR2 recognizes my pedals and AccuForce wheel, it does not detect my DSD button box nor my Sam Maxwell wheel buttons.

Is the a way to have GTR2 recognize more controllers?

Cheers

 

[Joerg Baermann]

After reading this article I figured I should re-install GTR2. After doing so I remembered why I had to stop using it. Maybe someone can help me, GTR2 recognizes my pedals and AccuForce wheel, it does not detect my DSD button box nor my Sam Maxwell wheel buttons.

Is the a way to have GTR2 recognize more controllers?

Cheers

I think it was something with the Steam version being able to use up to 6 controllers while the standalone version only would support 2?
Not sure about the no-cd exe

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Ahh...So, this was just another "billboard" article to raise funds for SimBin?

I was always curious why there has been so much "positive spin" attention to RRE and now newly formed Simbin UK......Is RaceDepartment an investor? Or is Paul Jeffrey's closet full of merch?

No and no

Seriously saddened by the fact we manage to get some exclusive news, by going out and funding out of my own pocket a trip to the developers and building relationships so you guys here at RD can hear stuff first and in detail, then getting accused of the site being an investor and me being paid off with merch.

What do I say to that? How do I respond without being accused of either protesting too hard or being an ahole ?

I thought the community (who are the people I give up literally hundreds of hours of my free time to write for) would enjoy hearing more than just the usual copy and paste from the devs news that everyone else produces.

Obviously I was wrong. I'm surprised by that.

Also in terms of speaking about GTR2 and boosting the S3 / Simbin coffers. The game is £5 on Steam. If the probably 3 extra sales that came from reading this will make a difference to the S3 budget I'd be surprised

This article came about for a simple reason. We have a GTR2 server up in advance of a potential league and I had the inspiration to set it all up again after several years break. I raced with 4 guys on it and loved the experience. Then after browsing through the game for a bit I realised what stuff is missing now.

I'm a lucky guy, we at RD have no pay masters and I have the creative freedom to write whatever I want to write (within reason anyway!) so I thought bugger it, I fancy writing about this subject and hopefully people will enjoy reading about it too.. and engaging with the comments (which seems like they do, on both counts).

So sorry if you think I'm a "bought" man. Far from it. And I'm exceptionally offended by that suggestion too.

 

[Peter Stokman]

Maybe so in rfactor Peter, as the exe was updated but are you sure you can do this with GTL, and GTR2
and still your wheel has to be input device 1 or 2 in game to get ffb working properly regardless of how many input devices you have installed on the pc.

Hi Rupe yes you were right only 3 devices on GTR possible

 

[Peter Stokman]

I think it was something with the Steam version being able to use up to 6 controllers while the standalone version only would support 2?
Not sure about the no-cd exe

No in my steam vers also only 3 controllers (till now) others like rf1 and R3E i can do 6

 

[Rupe Wilson]

I love reading your articles Paul, it kind of kept me going in some of my dark days,
And the first thing that came to mind when i returned was to get my jacket back and be part of this team again, helping out and trying to make a difference.

 

[ronniej]

No and no

Seriously saddened by the fact we manage to get some exclusive news, by going out and funding out of my own pocket a trip to the developers and building relationships so you guys here at RD can hear stuff first and in detail, then getting accused of the site being an investor and me being paid off with merch.

What do I say to that? How do I respond without being accused of either protesting too hard or being an ahole ?

I thought the community (who are the people I give up literally hundreds of hours of my free time to write for) would enjoy hearing more than just the usual copy and paste from the devs news that everyone else produces.

Obviously I was wrong. I'm surprised by that.

Also in terms of speaking about GTR2 and boosting the S3 / Simbin coffers. The game is £5 on Steam. If the probably 3 extra sales that came from reading this will make a difference to the S3 budget I'd be surprised

This article came about for a simple reason. We have a GTR2 server up in advance of a potential league and I had the inspiration to set it all up again after several years break. I raced with 4 guys on it and loved the experience. Then after browsing through the game for a bit I realised what stuff is missing now.

I'm a lucky guy, we at RD have no pay masters and I have the creative freedom to write whatever I want to write (within reason anyway!) so I thought bugger it, I fancy writing about this subject and hopefully people will enjoy reading about it too.. and engaging with the comments (which seems like they do, on both counts).

So sorry if you think I'm a "bought" man. Far from it. And I'm exceptionally offended by that suggestion too.

Not nearly as saddened as I am with your response to my remarks. If I'd known that before I posted I would've saved you the hurt feelings. I will defend my comments, but save you the book and just say that perhaps it was bad taste on my part.