Going to DD after TS-PC, which one though?
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stigs2cousin
Premium
They got rid of the podium and bought an SC2.
Like " sold the Jaguar and bought a Porsche"
(the stab at reliability issues was intended
)
Like " sold the Jaguar and bought a Porsche"
(the stab at reliability issues was intended
)Semi-random, rambling thoughts on my (continuing albeit halting) journey towards obtaining a DD wheel:
If you choose a Fanatec DD, you will need to: 1) use Fanatec wheels, or 2) any aftermarket rims you choose will require a $200 USD Podium Hub or the pricier Universal Hub.
During the pandemic, I bought a Fanatec CSW V2.5 wheelbase used with the McLaren GT3 V1 and metal QR. I barely use the McLaren as I rarely drive modern open wheel and modern GT cars. Soon afterward I bought a Podium Hub for vintage disciplines along with the new MOMO Prototipo 320mm wheel.
Around Christmas 2022, I nearly jumped on the Moza DD bandwagon when I bought my Heuskinveld Sprint pedals. I scored a great deal on the CS wheel at Microcenter and planned to buy an R9 wheelbase when they received new stock. While Moza is attractive pricewise, the R5 and R9 wheelbases use encoders with significantly less resolution then their close competitor Simagic. Moza and Simagic both use the excellent NRG/ QR which is a much more reasonable proposition for adding an old school wheel than the Fanatec hub/QR requirement.
I recently bought an Ascher USB button plate with a Turn R305 open top wheel for which I am forced to use with a Podium Hub for the wheel to be recognized. This is the first part of my own transition to a DD wheel as the McLaren wheel is primarily a backup for modern Formula and GT cars. To use my 350mm, 320mm, and 290mm round wheels, I must unbolt each wheel and/or button plate combo to attach to the Podium Hub.
When I bought the USB button plate, I resolved to (eventually) leave Fanatec for an ecosystem which does not require a $200 hub for each wheel. Simucube is certainly at the top of my DD aspirational list, but @ USD $800 the bare bones VRS DFP wheel is very attractive especially in light of new software. VRS also includes a 3-year warranty as compared to 2 years from SC. I have also patiently watched Asetek roll out their DDs and unique QR system
This is in no way meant as a poke against Fanatec. My first wheel was a CSR Forza paired with CSP V.2 pedals and I still have both. Even with the neat alcantara Ferrari 599X Evo wheel add-on, it was a huge letdown moving to a Thrustmaster wheelbase and TP3 Pro pedals for Xbox One compatibilty before moving to PC in 2019. In retrospect, I should have spent a liitle bit more on the CSW V 2.5 and an Xbox One wheel. I still have the TM gear along with a bulletproof TH8RS shifter, but I would not recommend sticking with TM for DD unless you have additional wheels or a need for console play.
The tremendous price inflation of late combined with some other jumps in our living costs have placed my DD quest on hold. I should be more than content with the CSW V. 2.5 which remains a fine wheelbase and was my aspirational wheel when Fanatec first offered their removable wheels. The Ascher button plate was a splurge which makes me smile everytime I see it. Even the McLaren GT3 wheel with all of its plastic creakiness and reported shifter faults holds a certain panache as an OEM replica. I rarely race and don't NEED a DD wheel. 8 Nm is more than adequate, and I have mounted the CSW very close to my center monitor.
Still, I can see ergonomic and immersive advantages of being able to move a DD wheeldeck even closer to my triple screens. Then again, a DD would take me down the road to hundreds of dollars of additional costs for optimal profile rig mounts from the likes of Simcore.
If you choose a Fanatec DD, you will need to: 1) use Fanatec wheels, or 2) any aftermarket rims you choose will require a $200 USD Podium Hub or the pricier Universal Hub.
During the pandemic, I bought a Fanatec CSW V2.5 wheelbase used with the McLaren GT3 V1 and metal QR. I barely use the McLaren as I rarely drive modern open wheel and modern GT cars. Soon afterward I bought a Podium Hub for vintage disciplines along with the new MOMO Prototipo 320mm wheel.
Around Christmas 2022, I nearly jumped on the Moza DD bandwagon when I bought my Heuskinveld Sprint pedals. I scored a great deal on the CS wheel at Microcenter and planned to buy an R9 wheelbase when they received new stock. While Moza is attractive pricewise, the R5 and R9 wheelbases use encoders with significantly less resolution then their close competitor Simagic. Moza and Simagic both use the excellent NRG/ QR which is a much more reasonable proposition for adding an old school wheel than the Fanatec hub/QR requirement.
I recently bought an Ascher USB button plate with a Turn R305 open top wheel for which I am forced to use with a Podium Hub for the wheel to be recognized. This is the first part of my own transition to a DD wheel as the McLaren wheel is primarily a backup for modern Formula and GT cars. To use my 350mm, 320mm, and 290mm round wheels, I must unbolt each wheel and/or button plate combo to attach to the Podium Hub.
When I bought the USB button plate, I resolved to (eventually) leave Fanatec for an ecosystem which does not require a $200 hub for each wheel. Simucube is certainly at the top of my DD aspirational list, but @ USD $800 the bare bones VRS DFP wheel is very attractive especially in light of new software. VRS also includes a 3-year warranty as compared to 2 years from SC. I have also patiently watched Asetek roll out their DDs and unique QR system
This is in no way meant as a poke against Fanatec. My first wheel was a CSR Forza paired with CSP V.2 pedals and I still have both. Even with the neat alcantara Ferrari 599X Evo wheel add-on, it was a huge letdown moving to a Thrustmaster wheelbase and TP3 Pro pedals for Xbox One compatibilty before moving to PC in 2019. In retrospect, I should have spent a liitle bit more on the CSW V 2.5 and an Xbox One wheel. I still have the TM gear along with a bulletproof TH8RS shifter, but I would not recommend sticking with TM for DD unless you have additional wheels or a need for console play.
The tremendous price inflation of late combined with some other jumps in our living costs have placed my DD quest on hold. I should be more than content with the CSW V. 2.5 which remains a fine wheelbase and was my aspirational wheel when Fanatec first offered their removable wheels. The Ascher button plate was a splurge which makes me smile everytime I see it. Even the McLaren GT3 wheel with all of its plastic creakiness and reported shifter faults holds a certain panache as an OEM replica. I rarely race and don't NEED a DD wheel. 8 Nm is more than adequate, and I have mounted the CSW very close to my center monitor.
Still, I can see ergonomic and immersive advantages of being able to move a DD wheeldeck even closer to my triple screens. Then again, a DD would take me down the road to hundreds of dollars of additional costs for optimal profile rig mounts from the likes of Simcore.
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Thank you, that's a good read @Ruttman98 !
But guys, it all has gone (yet) another way, a good way for me
For years and years, I was "Fanatec" minded as there were not much others than TM and Logitech.
Someone said: "what do you want for your birthday" I went FANATEC!
Now, seeing here the reads from you, I was looking at different brands too.
The last few months I helped my mother in law out with a couple of things, big things.
She wanted to donate some money, a good amount.......so that's nice. She said "now you can buy that Fanoti thingy you always wanted".
And I went, "well, there are other......" nope: "I will only hand you the money if you DO buy what you always wanted, period!"
So, here it is now: I ordered (and already mounted) the Podium DD1 F1 set
The Clubsport V2.5X, quick release and advanced paddle shifters came with it in the set.
Can't use it though: my pedals were the Logitech made stand-alone by just keeping the electronics and not powering up the wheelbase. That went great with my Thrustmasters wheels, but now on the Fanatec, they don't work when I switch on the wheel.
Been thinking about it: it may come because there is a load cell in the brake pedal.
Anyway; I ordered the CSL kit from Fanatec too now
So, have to wait a little longer; driving with the clutch-pads to throttle and brake is very hard to do.
I look pretty stubborn, I know, but I did think about the other brands and I probably would have gone for one of those. I didn't have much choice though: I could have made a serious point, but not really worth it. It's not like I have the worst steering wheel ever now, right?
But guys, it all has gone (yet) another way, a good way for me
For years and years, I was "Fanatec" minded as there were not much others than TM and Logitech.
Someone said: "what do you want for your birthday" I went FANATEC!
Now, seeing here the reads from you, I was looking at different brands too.
The last few months I helped my mother in law out with a couple of things, big things.
She wanted to donate some money, a good amount.......so that's nice. She said "now you can buy that Fanoti thingy you always wanted".
And I went, "well, there are other......" nope: "I will only hand you the money if you DO buy what you always wanted, period!"
So, here it is now: I ordered (and already mounted) the Podium DD1 F1 set
The Clubsport V2.5X, quick release and advanced paddle shifters came with it in the set.
Can't use it though: my pedals were the Logitech made stand-alone by just keeping the electronics and not powering up the wheelbase. That went great with my Thrustmasters wheels, but now on the Fanatec, they don't work when I switch on the wheel.
Been thinking about it: it may come because there is a load cell in the brake pedal.
Anyway; I ordered the CSL kit from Fanatec too now
So, have to wait a little longer; driving with the clutch-pads to throttle and brake is very hard to do.
I look pretty stubborn, I know, but I did think about the other brands and I probably would have gone for one of those. I didn't have much choice though: I could have made a serious point, but not really worth it. It's not like I have the worst steering wheel ever now, right?
Brilliant story!
About the pedals: I'm not sure what you connected in which way but if I got you right, you had:
TS-PC wheelbase - > usb into PC
Logitech pedals - > logitech wheelbase without power - > usb into PC
Correct?
That should still work.. You just might need to use a different usb port.
Most motherboards only have a few USB controllers, with the usb slots "randomly" attached to the controllers.
If you somehow manage to have devices that use a lot of "endpoints" plugged all into slots that use the same controller, you might get issues.
So "randomly" changing the usb slots can indeed help.
It doesn't make any sense if you don't know this, but it is what it is.
Your front USB slots are probably attached to the same controller and maybe the DD1 is using more endpoints than the TS-PC.
So try to use a rear usb slot for the pedals or the wheelbase.
Tip:
USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 slots are separate controllers and simracing gear doesn't need USB 3 since it's not sending a lot of data and doesn't need the higher power output of usb 3.
About the pedals: I'm not sure what you connected in which way but if I got you right, you had:
TS-PC wheelbase - > usb into PC
Logitech pedals - > logitech wheelbase without power - > usb into PC
Correct?
That should still work.. You just might need to use a different usb port.
Most motherboards only have a few USB controllers, with the usb slots "randomly" attached to the controllers.
If you somehow manage to have devices that use a lot of "endpoints" plugged all into slots that use the same controller, you might get issues.
So "randomly" changing the usb slots can indeed help.
It doesn't make any sense if you don't know this, but it is what it is.
Your front USB slots are probably attached to the same controller and maybe the DD1 is using more endpoints than the TS-PC.
So try to use a rear usb slot for the pedals or the wheelbase.
Tip:
USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 slots are separate controllers and simracing gear doesn't need USB 3 since it's not sending a lot of data and doesn't need the higher power output of usb 3.
Thank you RasmusP, that could have helped, but sadly: I tried already (had a hunch)
Tried more things, almost all I could think of, even installed W10 all over again.....
Disconnected this and that first or let it on, let the shifter out of equation and so on.
I think it has to do with the self build load-cell in the brake pedal.
Edit: yes, that was the way I had it hooked up.
Tried more things, almost all I could think of, even installed W10 all over again.....
Disconnected this and that first or let it on, let the shifter out of equation and so on.
I think it has to do with the self build load-cell in the brake pedal.
Edit: yes, that was the way I had it hooked up.
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Ah crap
But do the pedals still work without any wheelbase plugged in?
Seems like the issue isn't caused by the fanatec gear.
How far away are the cables/interfaces of the pedals from the DD1 base and cables?
A friend of mine has jittery pedal traces and sometimes gets a little electric jolt due to his simucube.
Sadly I'm no expert but maybe some different positioning, cable routing or cable twisting might help.
@GeekyDeaks might have some input to this?
I mean you already ordered the fanatec pedals. But you might get similar issues due to some shielding/isolation issue somewhere.
stigs2cousin
Premium
Maybe the F... software is looking for F... pedal inputs?
Can you disable the pedal input/calibration page in the software?
I wouldn´t put it beyond F... to also bind people to their pedals as in "stay in the eco system, son"
but there must be a way around it.
Loads of people have left behind F.... pedals as these have not seen development for years.
(Disclaimer: F.... hater here)
Can you disable the pedal input/calibration page in the software?
I wouldn´t put it beyond F... to also bind people to their pedals as in "stay in the eco system, son"
but there must be a way around it.
Loads of people have left behind F.... pedals as these have not seen development for years.
(Disclaimer: F.... hater here)
I don't think this is the case. Lots of people use their DD1/2 with Heusinkveld pedals.Maybe the F... software is looking for F... pedal inputs?
Can you disable the pedal input/calibration page in the software?
I wouldn´t put it beyond F... to also bind people to their pedals as in "stay in the eco system, son"
but there must be a way around it.
Loads of people have left behind F.... pedals as these have not seen development for years.
(Disclaimer: F.... hater here)
But I can imagine that there are interferences with the Logitech wheelbase and pedals from the DD1.
@Navigator : Do you see any pedal inputs in the Fanatec menu?
If you want to test a few things and depending on how easily you can move around the pedals:
Get the pedals, Logitech base and cables as far away from the DD1, its PSU and cables as you can.
Maybe you could also power up the Logitech base, but set the FFB to 0% in the Logitech menu.
Some games might run into issues but when I used my Logitech pedals with the TS-PC for a few weeks, most titles worked fine with 2 wheels plugged in.
This might help due to the Logitech gear getting connected to the electric circuit instead of just the PC (they all should get ground via the PC PSU but who knows, maybe the Logitech gear works like an Antenna when not also getting ground directly from the wall).
I had a similar issue when I had my DD2 and G29 pedals.. It would kinda spike for one and also a very strange problem. Touching the DD2 base or any metal connected to it would give my PC all kinds of crazy commands and inputs.
I think @RasmusP is on the right track with it being an isolation problem. It sounds very much like there is a dodgy ground somewhere and I know the logitech pedals will take ground through the bolts on the underside if you have them on a rig. Couple of questions (apologies if you have already mentioned anything about them before and I have just missed it):
1. how are the pedals mounted - are they bolted to a rig via the mounting points on the bottom of the base? (I assume so if you have a DD1, but just want to check)
2. how are they connected to the PC? i.e. do you have the bodnar adapter or something similar?
If you have a multimeter, you could check you don't have a floating ground on your rig by measuring the voltage between a known good ground (say the PC case) and the rig.
@Neilski might have some more ideas too....
Not really
I think you and Rasmus are on the right track there...
My only comment would be that I'd far rather use a Bodnar adapter for the Logitech pedals than the original Logitech wheelbase. (I can't see any info above that clarifies which pedals they are exactly, but the Bodnar adapters work for all of the G2x series, as far as I can remember. Certainly his website will make that clear of course.)
Thanks guys, a good bunch of info and things to figure out.
Meanwhile, I tried and none worked
The pedals are L G27, bare mounted on the steel chassis of the rig.
There is only the electronics of them left, they do have the ground connections hooked up.
The electronics then go via USB in the PC; never touches anything else.
There is no twitch in the Fanatec driver screen when I move the Logitech pedals.
I did all: moved the stuff away from each other, grounded even more, shielded and so on.
The only thing that worked a bit, was getting the load-cell out and hooking up the pot again: not much though.
I even looked for current running with a scope I happened to have laying around: to small to measure if there is any. It's a Fluke 123, should be good enough.
As I said: I tried all of it......I'm out of ideas.......hope you are not
Meanwhile, I tried and none worked
The pedals are L G27, bare mounted on the steel chassis of the rig.
There is only the electronics of them left, they do have the ground connections hooked up.
The electronics then go via USB in the PC; never touches anything else.
There is no twitch in the Fanatec driver screen when I move the Logitech pedals.
I did all: moved the stuff away from each other, grounded even more, shielded and so on.
The only thing that worked a bit, was getting the load-cell out and hooking up the pot again: not much though.
I even looked for current running with a scope I happened to have laying around: to small to measure if there is any. It's a Fluke 123, should be good enough.
As I said: I tried all of it......I'm out of ideas.......hope you are not
Ah ok. Then it sounds like you don't have them in the plastic case? First thing I would do is pick a pot and measure the voltage across it when the DD1 is off and they are reporting ok. Then switch the DD1 on and measure it again to see if it's pulling the ground up.
wait - the voltage across the pot is just 0.2V? Is that when the DD1 is on? Can you measure it when the DD1 is off (or even better the power is completely disconnected)?
Also, I can I just confirm you are measuring the voltage across the top and bottom pins of the pot? It really should be more like 5V
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