Elementary school shooting in Connecticut, U.S.A.

[Hampus Andersson]

Well they may be a bunch of stoned idiots , but at least people that smoke dope are not very likely to commit violent crimes.

It´s more pleassant to sit at home and just eat everything that´s in the fridge

 

[Hampus Andersson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
USA is right up there with developing countries.

It´s a false perception to think that because you have a gun you´ll be safe.
Because if someone breaks into your house one of you will most likely die that day whereas in another country, the assaliant (who really just wanted your TV and not murder you) will simply go about his business.

It´s the same with robbing banks, in Sweden people who rob banks want the money, not take your life.
This is why you let them have what it is they want, to save lives.

In USA bank robbers know the guy behind the desk has a gun so what do you do? You kill him before he kills you.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

here we go again,

http://www.woai.com/news/local/stor...yan-movie-theater/2wFsix5ntU2CDrsHjXx2kQ.cspx

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

here we go again,

http://www.woai.com/news/local/stor...yan-movie-theater/2wFsix5ntU2CDrsHjXx2kQ.cspx

"An armed off-duty deputy working security was able to take down the shooter before he could kill anyone."

From that article. The massacres and killing sprees aren't as out of control when someone is armed.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

"An armed off-duty deputy working security was able to take down the shooter before he could kill anyone."

From that article. The massacres and killing sprees aren't as out of control when someone is armed.

So what you ended up with was one person who nearly died.

then if we remove guns, nobody would have been dead. or even shot for that matter.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

So what you ended up with was one person who nearly died.

then if we remove guns, nobody would have been dead. or even shot for that matter.

When a psycho wants to cause harm Anything could be a weapon. He wooukdve gotten much farther and hurt more people if he drove a car through the mall but a car isn't a weapon right? Guns don't kill people, the ones pulling the trigger do.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

When a psycho wants to cause harm Anything could be a weapon. He wooukdve gotten much farther and hurt more people if he drove a car through the mall but a car isn't a weapon right? Guns don't kill people, the ones pulling the trigger do.

Still doesn´t explain the vast number of school shootings in a country with 300 million people compared to a whole continent with 700 million people.

Guns are designed to kill people, this is why they came into existence so you would not have to have close combat with swords.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

I think some if not most of the recent shootings brought to the public eye, especially in the wake of Obamas re-election and promise to crack down On gun laws, have been orchestrated. Honestly Hampus I didn't even need to use the car scenario. You carry out the same event with no guns and it woukd've been even worse because only the shooter would have a gun. You'd be reading about a lot more casualties of the shooter who could only be stopped once he ran out of ammo(or likely killed himself). The black market in this day and age is easy enough to access that if you have the money you could have an unregistered firearm delivered to you. This will happen wether or not the public has them, that's why it's the Black market.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Again you are completely missing the statistics.

USA has the most open gun-laws in industrial countries, and it has the most gun related crimes of industrial countries.
Compare that to a whole continent, twice the population and we have about 20% of the gun-related crimes.

You simply can not ignore that. Black markets exists everywhere and we still don´t have even remotely close numbers as far as gun-crime.

The UK (where police officers do not wear guns except Ireland or something) have some of the lowest gun-homicides numbers you can find on the planet.
Why? Because guns are virtually non-exsistent.

USA have some of the highest, why? Because guns are as common as candy.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Britain has had few firearms rampage incidents in modern times. During the latter half of the 20th century there were only two incidents in which people holding licensed firearms went on shooting sprees and killed on a large scale, the Hungerford massacre of 1987 and the Dunblane school massacre of 1996; each led to strong public and political demands to restrict firearm use, and tightening of laws. The result has been among the strictest firearms laws in the world.[11] After Hungerford, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 criminalised most semi-automatic long-barrelled weapons; it was generally supported by the Labour opposition although some Labour backbenchers thought it inadequate.[12] After the second incident, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 criminalised private possession of most handguns having a calibre over .22; the Snowdrop Campaigncontinued to press for a wider ban, and in 1997 the incoming Labour government introduced the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act, which extended this to most handguns with a calibre of .22 (there are exceptions for some antique handguns and black-powder revolvers.)

 

[johnnymat]

Don't know if you guys are aware of this , but firearms - related deaths in the U.S. have been steadily declining. They dropped about 15% between 2007 and 2011.
I still think there's a lot more to this than easy access to guns. Read the link I posted the other day written by the woman who has a severely mentally ill son.
I don't know why there have been so many large scale shootings in recent years ; firearms have always been easily accessible. In fact, it's harder to buy certain weapons now than it was 30 or 40 years ago. That's why I think part of the problem is more than just easy access to firearms.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

If you have a computer and money you can buy a gun. Regardless of where you live. Regardless of the law. Restricting public access isn't going to stop anything only intensify it. Hampus' San Antonio link shows the importance of an armed population. Say only the UN and it's peace keeping force has guns (what they're working towards btw) that same events w have been a lot longer and bloodier, it would've ended when the shooter ran out of ammo.

Take away guns and only criminals have them. Don't believe me? Download TOR, search the hidden wiki and you'll find links to anything you want. Illegal does not mean inaccessible.

 

[William Levesque]

The fact that the US is probably the most alienated/corrupted/brainwashed "free" country in the world most likely plays a role in many shootings... Most killers made reference to loads of ideas of "liberation" and similar, claiming to free the people by killing them...

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

For the record all these recent shootings have taken place in the more restrictive gun law states. Shows how well those regs work. CT is in the top 3 gun control states in the US.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

If you have a computer and money you can buy a gun. Regardless of where you live. Regardless of the law. Restricting public access isn't going to stop anything only intensify it.

Again you are completely ignoring the statistics. Restrictive gun laws WILL do just that, look at the rest of the world for god sake.

Regardless of where you live: Again, UK fits into "regardless of where you live" they don´t have anywhere near the shootings.
Why? Because guns are not as common as in USA. It´s a major problem,

Basically it´s a choice, either you keep these gun laws, have 1,4 school shooting per year, many children will die, many children will be paralyzed all because of these open gun laws where a guy like that could ask his mom for guns.

Or USA follows what UK have done, and eventually will have as low gun-related deaths as UK or Europe for that matter.
Virtually non-exsistent.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

Again you are completely ignoring the statistics. Restrictive gun laws WILL do just that, look at the rest of the world for god sake.

Regardless of where you live: Again, UK fits into "regardless of where you live" they don´t have anywhere near the shootings.
Why? Because guns are not as common as in USA. It´s a major problem,

Basically it´s a choice, either you keep these gun laws, have 1,4 school shooting per year, many children will die, many children will be paralyzed all because of these open gun laws where a guy like that could ask his mom for guns.

Or USA follows what UK have done, and eventually will have as low gun-related deaths as UK or Europe for that matter.
Virtually non-exsistent.

You're ignorin the stats. How many massacres happened in lax law states? I'm sure they happen but not nearly as often. Think really hard about the recent shootings. A gun free mall, a temple, a mall, and a school. What did they have in common? They were all posted gun free zones and they've become a picture of how skewed the media has become. These shootings are a means to an end, the end being civilian disarmament. I'd take the risk of a few psychos bein armed if over a 1/4 of the population is armed as well. When your odds of getting shot and killed are 1 in 4 you're less likely to go on a ridiculous killing spree. How many died in the Texas mall shooting? NONE an armed citizen stopped it. This happens much more often than you think but it's less newsworthy than the deaths.

Btw check out Johnnymat's links and stats. 15% reduction in violent gun crime over the last 5 years. All these public shootings have all come in the wake of Obama and the UNs promises for tighter gun control. Hampus did you look at the hidden wiki? You're saying you'd rather everyone be unarmed except the psycho with a bitcoin account that lives next to your family stocking up for the next rampage in a place he knows will be an easy target for him. Killers and crooks are opportunists. They dont follow the rules. Half these anti-gun lobbyists are astounding hypocrites. Wait for a home invasion and the next day they're strapped with more firepower than the local cop.

You're giving away your safety. "Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both" -Ben Franklin

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I´m not the one ignoring the stats. Open gunlaws = more death = more school shootings etc, all you need to do is look at the history or evidence as i like to call it.

Safety? So i´m not safe in Sweden or UK because we don´t have guns? I can honestly tell you we are SAFER then anyone in the US because we don´t have guns as common as candy.

15% reduction doesn´t mean squat because you still have the highest numbers by far in the industrialized world.

Edit: I think the country that is closest to you that is from Europe is Finland.

And what do you know, 3 school shootings since 1989. And that´s with a population of 5 million.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

The reason you have these high gun-rates is because of one thing and one thing only.

Guns.

If you want to lower gun-rates yo remove what?

Guns.

If you want guns then you have to accept that school shootings will come with it.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

"6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.

False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel “have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.” A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime."

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/gun-control-myths-realities

You still refuse to acknowledge the fact that if you ban guns they will still be everywhere. Weed, cocaine, exstacy, heroin, mushrooms, they're all illegal and all it takes to find one of them is ask the right person. I'll say it again. Illegal does not mean inaccessible.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

Here's a report and some statistics concerning recent gun bans and their effect on crime.

"Actually, if the Australian Bureau of Criminology can be believed, Americans would be insane to concern themselves with what non-Americans think about American gun rights.

In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States — where no gun-ban exists — both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape. One wonders if Freddy even bothered to look up the relative crime statistics.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations. Twenty-six percent of English citizens — roughly one-quarter of the population — have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized. The United States didn’t even make the “top 10″ list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Now all this statistical and factual information isn’t going to mean anything to Lefty’s and Statists, but it is always good to know that reality backs up the conservative position on gun rights and the 2nd Amendment"

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012...duce-violent-crime-ask-the-aussies-and-brits/