Why do people seem to forget this?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Mohamedou Ari, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. Mohamedou Ari

    Mohamedou Ari
    F1 Sim Racer & #1 St. Bernard Lover on RD Premium

    What people seem to forget is that when they say Islam is a violent religion, they need to understand that it is also a young religion. Many Muslim clerics are threatened by change and modernisation. They also show how weak their faith really is by killing those who leave Islam. They need to understand that you can't force religion through violent means, and, if anyone leaves the faith, then, they should let bygones be bygones.

    My mom is a devout Shi'ite Muslim and when I told her she forces her religion on me, she says, "Mo, I have every right by Islam to force my religion on you." She is my mom, and I have to respect her judgement regardless. I want to tell her that you can't gain a follower by force, even if they are your closest kin, but, she is quite stubborn.

    Also, my three paternal female cousins - who are devout Shi'ites that pray five times a day, wear the headscarf, fast every Ramadan, they grieve for the martyrdom of Muhammad's grandson, Husain ibn Ali every Muslim New Year - unfriended me from their Facebook profiles because I was criticising Islam and expressing my scepticism about faith. I told my Dad, who is more tolerant of my decisions than my Mom, about this and I also told him that they have a weak faith for letting my views about Islam irritate them, and, he agreed. I hope they become more tolerant one day.

    Anyway, a thousand years ago, Christians were just as violent and intolerant, but, now, the religion has matured to where it accepts more rational approaches. Most Christian parents don't have a problem with children leaving the faith and what not, and, using violence to gain followers of Christ is rare.

    Give Islam 300 to 400 more years and honour killings, suicide bombings, and crime in the name of Islam will be rare. Muslims will also adopt more tolerant practises, maybe, even Shi'ites will evolve with the rest of the religion and they may also settle their differences with Sunnis more peacefully. But, coming from me, Shi'a Islam is very rigid in its teachings, but, even that must conform to change.

    Humans evolve in their thinking every generation.
  2. Mapu


    I like this and you as a subject have every right to decide for yourself. You may be her son, but she has to accept that you're a person, an individual and therefore nobody can force you into anything and that's important. However you also have to live with the consequences. Like you said, losing friends on facebook can be one of these consequences.

    Also, religion is most often miss-used to justify violence. Any kind of religion is not violent per se, quite the contrary. Foremost religion is part of contemplation, a source to find answers to life, morals and ethics. It claims to give guidance to a fulfilled life. Interpretation of lore is completely up to the people. I am not religious at all (I am looking elsewhere for answers) and have my reservations against institutionalized religion, but living in the western world of Europe, even I through my thoughts, acts and interactions indirectly represent aspects of Christianity since Christanity shaped the "occident" over many decades and generations.

    I am not sure if it can be broken down to a simple thesis like Christianity is less violent and more tolerant than Islam because Christianity had its phase of Enlightenment and Islam is missing something similar to the Enlightenment. I don't even believe that the majority of Muslims are Islamists, more likely the contrary. Recent events in the world show this, e.g. Egypt. Beside, looking at the US in particular you can see radicial forces acting in the name of God too. Something else is the crux of the matter and religion is only a vehicle, miss-used to get these goals done.

    All religions have their extremes, but most of the believers are just people like you and me and want to go about their daily life.
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  3. Mark Gormley

    Mark Gormley
    #14 | The Silent Killer

    I'm not quite sure I follow. Are you implying that 'young' (1300 years? Young?) religions can be forgiven violence if they're not as old as Christianity? Mormonism is less than 200 years old but they don't have seem to have a radical violent sect. If a two year old child acts violently they should be punished, as should a 40 year old who acts violently.

    Christianity had to become more rational because the Pope lost all his power, land and armies due to the rise of secularism and humanism, and as such had to adopt a more conciliatory approach. In places like here (Ireland) where the Catholic Church also had entrenched political power they were just as brutal and intolerant, right up until the 1970's (It was illegal to sell condoms until 1978, to divorce until 1996, 1996!). And of course the church's complicity in the Rwandan Genocide.

    Anyway, youth isn't an excuse for violence, which I think is what your point was.
  4. Mapu


    Of course not. But one has to understand that religion at its core is an entity and obtains and preserves it's meaning through individuals, groups, communities etc. It is an vehicle for believes which at one point may get institutionalized (be it the church as one example). What I tried to say was that religion as an entity in itself is not supposed to be violent or restrictive. By definition it is something else. Moreover religion is often miss-used or abused to justify violence, violence for a alleged higher good. At this point tradition, "powerful" individuals or groups and the institution come into view; in short those who are able enough to dictate and indoctrinate their opinions into believers, putting them in chains. Having the in-group under control they are able to justify their acts towards out-groups.

    It is the people who commit crimes and not religion. You can't make an entity responsible for acts which are done by individuals who have self-consciousness. All in all it comes down to a string of interactions between individuals that may at some point lead into violence for secular reasons*. Also that string of interactions that may lead to violence can only be interrupted by an individual, a group, a community, an institution etc. So the responsibility lies within the people, not in some kind of "higher" entity (god).

    *there are only secular reasons
  5. Omer Said

    Omer Said
    Weresloth Staff

    Who is killing people who leaves islam? Generalization will not take a serious discussion to anywhere. If you are taking Khomeini who issued a fatwa for the death of Selman Rushdie as an indication of islam generally, you are just generalizing unfairly.

    Also, being a young religion has nothing to do with violence. Islam's golden age was the earliest and Ottoman era was also much more advanced in terms of religious life and constitutions compared to the today's shattered and distorted (in terms of it's image in public) islam.

    Your mom is totally wrong. Islam prohibits forcing your religion to others. She is only responsible in teaching you the true islam and how to be a muslim. She can't force you.

    I think if you have a right to criticize islam, they have a right to choose not to be friends with you if they want. As you have a freedom of thinking/speech, they have a freedom of preferance and choice as well.

    In the medieval times, there were wars generally. Christianity, Islam or Judaism were not violent particularly. Ancient Rome waged conquest for religion? The most terrible bloodsheds in human history, World Wars were not originated from religions as well.

    Bush named his Iraq Invasion as a "crusade", KKK was devoted christians. So all these make Christianity a violent religion? NO! Just as stupid suicide bombers don't make islam a violent religion. I repeat again that these kind of generalizations are not healthy for thinking.

    This sounds like as if all muslims are possible bomb-carriers ready to blow up everything around. There are millions of muslims on this world and you are taking maximum 1000 of them as an indication. Also, keep in mind that these desperate terrorists emerged after the oppressions of the "civilized" western countries on the east.

    But, i agree with the idea that Shi'a islam is much more conservative and harsh since it's seperation from the mainstream islam. I believe it cut it's roots from the true teachings of the prophet. But i believe it has nothing to do with the time.

    Lastly, I'm very sad to hear you are oppressed by your mom. I hope she will learn how to act towards you and i hope you will have your life more freely.
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