What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'm only talking about ingame, I forget what my profiler is, 85 maybe. The different combination makes for a different feeling, it's hard to explain I guess and I only vaguely understand what any of these controls do. I just know that more FFB strength and less vertical load gave more of a constant weight where higher vertical load and lower FFB strength gives the weight a variable feel, if that makes sense. I prefer the variable feel because it lets me feel more communication from the car. The actual weight of the wheel ends up being similar between the two.

 

[Msportdan]

Ok ill try although not sure ill ever get a sweetspot in this titles forever ending quest for a half decent ffb.

I still think there needs to be more feedback in traction loss as there's still no cues in feel or audio of This,compared to other Sims.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

stop comparing ,

if i compare the last ten cars ive owned the steering felt different on each of them; some heavier some lighter some tight some not ; some gave feedback others didnt give much

i get all the audio cues i need , i get weight transfer i get loss of traction , i get all this in different ways in different sims ... they have different flavours as cars do ..... i dont want all of my sims to taste the same ..... i like the different feels

Andi

 

[Blkout]

TM Control Panel:

Rotation: 900 degrees
Overall Strength: 85% if using GTE/T300 rim, 80% if using the TX 458 rim.
Constant: 100%
Periodic: 100%
Spring: 0%
Damper: 0%

R3E FFB:

All settings at default except:

FFB Intensity: 70%
Smoothing: 0%
Steering Force Intensity: 100%
Understeer: 100%
Vertical Load: 350%
Lateral Force: 50%
Engine Vibration: 30%
Brake Vibration: 10%
Kerb Vibration: 60%
Shift Effect: 100%

When you start a race, go into car settings and use 900 degrees rotation and 30-32 degree steering lock.

 

[Blkout]

stop comparing ,

if i compare the last ten cars ive owned the steering felt different on each of them; some heavier some lighter some tight some not ; some gave feedback others didnt give much

i get all the audio cues i need , i get weight transfer i get loss of traction , i get all this in different ways in different sims ... they have different flavours as cars do ..... i dont want all of my sims to taste the same ..... i like the different feels

Andi

And if they were all the same, we wouldn't enjoy what each game offers. I actually like the subtle differences between different games but when setup correctly, R3E is very good.

 

[Sean Lander]

My biggest complaint with the physics is the way the curbs can really upset the car way more than seems real.

 

[Msportdan]

TM Control Panel:

Rotation: 900 degrees
Overall Strength: 85% if using GTE/T300 rim, 80% if using the TX 458 rim.
Constant: 100%
Periodic: 100%
Spring: 0%
Damper: 0%

R3E FFB:

All settings at default except:
FFB Intensity: 70%
Steering Force Intensity: 100%
Understeer: 100%
Vertical Load: 350%
Lateral Force: 50%
Engine Vibration: 30%
Brake Vibration: 10%
Kerb Vibration: 60%
Shift Effect: 100%

When you start a race, go into car settings and use 900 degrees rotation and 30-32 degree steering lock.

ill try these tonight although i cant race , race cars with 900 deg lock or have the brake vib lower than engine. The rest ill see how it goes,

 

[Blkout]

ill try these tonight although i cant race , race cars with 900 deg lock or have the brake vib lower than engine. The rest ill see how it goes,

You don't have to change the degree of rotation and steering lock but the on-screen steering wheel likely won't match your own wheel when turning. You can set the brake vibration at whatever you want, I just find it annoying when its too high.

 

[Msportdan]

fair enough. now i use trackfacenoir, and a high FOV, so i dont have the wheel on anymore. i will try the higher vert value against the lower ffb value. Looking back that probably makes sense why i was getting a very strong feeling wheel, maybe too strong.. running 350 ver and 100 ffb.

With my pedals (the stock t300gte) i need a good cue of when the brakes are kicking in so the brake vibration helps me a lot. I can imagine on decent pedals thats not needed.

btw i apologise i didnt mean what i said i do value peoples opinion on here and yours, so im sorry for what i said, it was out of line. Im just a little frustrated i cant find a good medium for ffb atm. I would like more road feel i suppose.

 

[Blkout]

fair enough. now i use trackfacenoir, and a high FOV, so i dont have the wheel on anymore. i will try the higher vert value against the lower ffb value. Looking back that probably makes sense why i was getting a very strong feeling wheel, maybe too strong.. running 350 ver and 100 ffb.

With my pedals (the stock t300gte) i need a good cue of when the brakes are kicking in so the brake vibration helps me a lot. I can imagine on decent pedals thats not needed.

btw i apologise i didnt mean what i said i do value peoples opinion on here and yours, so im sorry for what i said, it was out of line. Im just a little frustrated i cant find a good medium for ffb atm. I would like more road feel i suppose.

Road feel is critical which is why I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. Having your FFB set at 100% was causing you a lot of problems. You were very likely clipping causing the wheel to feel very heavy and you were also likely losing FFB detail.

 

[Msportdan]

lets put that to a mass misunderstanding then mate. As i was just as confused as you was, now i understand i will tweak as you instructed.

 

[James Cook]

As has been said many times, R3E needs a wheel calibration tool such as a FFB clipping meter. This would help people get their FFB dialled in.

 

[Brandon Wright]

All the FFB settings can get quite confusing, but somehow I became a bit obsessed with getting them dialed in. At first I really didn't like the FFB in this game but over time and tweaking I've started to like it a lot. It became a bit of an adventure.

Switching from the GT3 RS to the T300 made a world of difference and really made the game more enjoyable. There are parts of the GT3 I miss (shaking under heavy braking, shifting effect) but the way it feels in the turns or when the car is loose is a major improvement on the T300. I imagine I'll never stop fiddling with the FFB but for now I find a high vertical load, low lateral load, low-to-medium under steer, FFB around 75, FFB effects around 110-120, and no steering rack gives the best weight + road feel combination, at least on the T300/TX.

 

[Msportdan]

surprised to see you dont get any brake wobble on the wheel. i like it with the t300.Mines set to about 20%. But suppose ill have to raise if im to lower ffb.

Exactly what am i sacrificing lowering the FFB value and not the others?

 

[Blkout]

The overall FFB value is the overall strength, it simply amplifies all of the other individual FFB adjustments. I just think a good baseline is around 70% for the TX/T300 and then adjust your individual settings from there to get the feeling you want, then once you get each effect dialed in like you want, you can play with the overall strength again. You just have to be careful because going too high with the overall strength will absolutely cause clipping and loss of detail. Heavy clipping is pretty easy to identify when you feel like the wheel is simply heavy to turn but you don't really feel any other effects. There's a trade-off to using cheaper and even midrange wheels, the overall strength they can output simply isn't going to be as strong as a very high end wheel like a direct drive wheel from Bodnar or SimExperience. Those wheels are capable of giving you much more realistic effects without clipping but obviously cost much more. Its just a trade-off in cost vs. realism. The T500/T300/TX are all good midrange wheels but some people just demand more than what they can do.

 

[Blkout]

All the FFB settings can get quite confusing, but somehow I became a bit obsessed with getting them dialed in. At first I really didn't like the FFB in this game but over time and tweaking I've started to like it a lot. It became a bit of an adventure.

Switching from the GT3 RS to the T300 made a world of difference and really made the game more enjoyable. There are parts of the GT3 I miss (shaking under heavy braking, shifting effect) but the way it feels in the turns or when the car is loose is a major improvement on the T300. I imagine I'll never stop fiddling with the FFB but for now I find a high vertical load, low lateral load, low-to-medium under steer, FFB around 75, FFB effects around 110-120, and no steering rack gives the best weight + road feel combination, at least on the T300/TX.

I can say that the Fanatec CSW v2 has VERY strong shift effects, much stronger than any of my Thrustmaster wheels, I wasn't sure if it was because the CSW v2 is just more powerful but it sounds like you had a much weaker Fanatec wheel and was still able to feel the shift effects very well so maybe its just a software FFB issue with Thrustmaster wheels. I can say that I do feel the effects on my Thrustmaster wheels but its not nearly as strong as my Fanatec and its highly dependant on the car. Some cars have stronger shift effects than others so while you may not feel it on one, you may feel it on another, same goes with the engine vibration effect.

 

[Msportdan]

THe DFGT had quite a strong shift effect, almost at 100 it could shake out of your hande if your not holding firm enough.

I also realised the Tm wheels had a weaker ffb when shifting, i just put it down to belt drives not giving that "jolt" as well as gears.

 

[theravenousbeast]

It's funny, I've spent so little time messing around with the FFB settings with my 6 year old squeaky DFP. I guess it's because I don't have real life experience with racecars (or even fast road cars) to compare it with so I'm just happy with what gives me enough feedback to go fast. It still feels miles ahead of the older titles as it is and that's more than enough for me.

 

[Blkout]

It's funny, I've spent so little time messing around with the FFB settings with my 6 year old squeaky DFP. I guess it's because I don't have real life experience with racecars (or even fast road cars) to compare it with so I'm just happy with what gives me enough feedback to go fast. It still feels miles ahead of the older titles as it is and that's more than enough for me.

Its all a matter of what you get use to using. I started with a G27 which felt great until I got a chance to try a T500RS and after that I was ruined on using a G27. After getting a T500RS, I got a TX 458, and then a Fanatec CSW v2. After using the CSW v2, its hard to go back to a T500 or TX, however since my CSW v2 broke and I had to send it back for repair, I've had to use my T500 and TX again, for a few days, it felt awful like both wheels were broken, but now that its been over a week, they feel pretty good again to me. Its just a matter of perspective, none of these more expensive wheels will likely make you considerably quicker, but practice certainly will. So many people win sim racing championships using DFGT's and G27's that it would make you wonder why all that expensive high end sim equipment even exists but all I can say to that is once you try that more expensive gear, it spoils you by increasing the immersion level considerably. Its sort of like going from a gamepad to a wheel, you may not always be faster with a wheel but you'll certainly enjoy it a lot more and that's the way more expensive sim equipment works for me.

 

[Msportdan]

A good test is to run suzuka with no engine vib on. This track is very smooth and u can notice when the bumps occur as there isn't many. Few small ones down the straight and before spoon curve.

UPDATE=
Ive altered this post because. I cant make up my mind. lol When I think that I have nice settings I alter something I tried before and it feels better. So think ill leave myself to my own devices here lol
I will mention I like:-

175 ver load (not so high to avoid clipping by the strong ffb)
75 lateral load (for the fwds otherwise to low and they become floaty)
100 FFB (keeps strong detail in all effects).
60 setting for steering force. (seems to rid the horrid centre force and unhide corner road details)

Also this seems quite compatible across all cars. yes obviously you have to compromise to get this. This is one t300 GTE btw. 80 in profiler 100/100/0/0 default centre.

But the way im going ill never be entirely satisfied. But i feel im going to have to eventually stick with something.