VR versus triple-screen for Assetto Corsa

[Billy Pilgrim]

I have a triple-screen setup. It's great.

I've never tried VR. I'd like to read opinions from those who have experienced both to understand how the two options compare.

The downside of VR, I understand, is the screendoor effect. That's about the extent of my knowledge. I'm thinking fps may be better in VR.

 

[Flibbberflops]

Higher resolution VR would be nice, but I think of far greater importance for sim racing is field of view. I'm used to the scuba-mask FoV of the Rift (I keep telling myself I'm wearing a racing helmet) but being able to sense other cars in my peripheral vision would be amazing. That's why I'm praying that the Pimax delivers on its promise and provides a stable and reliable headset with good build quality that performs as intended. The 200 degree horizontal FoV would be amazing for sim racing, and that's ignoring the much higher pixel density. It all remains to be seen though.

I am not convinced myself. Where as the wider FOV will no doubt have benifit in other VR experiences, I am slightly worried that it will distract somewhat in Sim racing. I say this for 4 reasons.

Firstly, as you alluded. A real racer has FOV restricted by both the helmet and neck brace etc, so I would say immersion wise the current VR systems are probably close to realistic immersion?

Secondly I am concerned that wide fast moving FOV can actually increase VR sickness. There are cases in real world where FOV is restricted to specifically reduce issues. Both HTC and Oculus have researched the hell out of VR for many years.They have never even hinted towards a wide FOV solution. I am guessing they would have trodden this path long ago and have good reason to avoid this idea?

Lastly, if I had the choice in sim racing between FOV and visual quality then clarity of the track ahead is far more important that FOV (which is blurred anyway).

However, having said that, if the Pimax 8K delivers on its promise then it will be by far the highest resolution headset also with the wide FOV (best of both worlds). That is my concern. If the wide FOV causes issues in sim racing it would be horrible to have to abstain from the only super high resolution headset. I am also worried what FPS sacrifice there will be for this add FOV.

 

[Ryno917]

This is only because you are basing your answers on a lack of knowledge on the subject. The Samsung has the same tracking as all WMR VR headsets. They use inside out tracking (which are camera's built into the headset). Headset tracking is almost as perfect as the vive and rift . The Samsung is currently the highest resolution commercially available headset with proper headset tracking.

My mistake on the tracking method.

However, everything I've seen about the Odyssey says that the tracking is inferior to the Rift and the Vive, so I retain my point. Most of the reviews I've seen come to the conclusion that the increased FOV and resolution are nearly indistinguishable from the Rift, the Screen Door Effect is exactly the same, the touch controllers are bad, and the tracking is much worse, and as a result the Rift or Vive stays as the primary device of choice for those people for most things.


[EDIT] Just read your post on the wide FOV above - interesting point. I've never considered the nausea impact of wide FOV in racing. I'd be really interested to see how that plays out with wider FOV options are available. I believe FOV while wearing a modern racing helmet is probably better than we get in a Rift, though, as the eyes are actually forward of the padding at the sides, so the FOV should be pretty wide still. That being said, I let myself believe otherwise while driving - I feel like I'm wearing a helmet while wearing my Rift, despite it being a narrower FOV than real life. Like you mentioned, though, what's in front of you is the most important part anyways!

 

[Flibbberflops]

My mistake on the tracking method.

However, everything I've seen about the Odyssey says that the tracking is inferior to the Rift and the Vive, so I retain my point. Most of the reviews I've seen come to the conclusion that the increased FOV and resolution are nearly indistinguishable from the Rift, the Screen Door Effect is exactly the same, the touch controllers are bad, and the tracking is much worse, and as a result the Rift or Vive stays as the primary device of choice for those people for most things.
!

I have never used the Samsung but I have used the HP WMR (Which uses the same tracking system as the Samsung). The tracking of the headset was flawless (Which is what you need for sim racing). However, yeah the tracking of controllers is worse than the vive and rift. The HP is better resolution than the Rift/Vive but not as high as the Samsung. To say the screen was comparrible to the rift/vive is a little unfair. It was a certainly a step up from the vive/rift in both resolution and SDE but the difference was not as drastic as you would expect comparing the different specs on paper. Ultimately he HP had other issues which made it unattractive, so I sent it back. However, I was certainly left with the firm belief that the Inside out tracking system it uses was ideal for Sim Racing.

 

[motoliser]

Have you consider 1 ultrawide monitor?
I sold my triples and VR and I'm currently very happy with this Samsung LC49hg90.
1ms,144hz,QLED,3840x1080p good frame rates fast and immersive!!! Freesync if you go for AMD one day.

 

[unpierrot]

I have an ultrawide monitor but honestly it can not compete against VR. As it was already said, with a screen (any size, any number), you have an image of a car in front of you and with VR, you are in the car. I will not go back, VR is the way to go for simulation (car or plane)

 

[motoliser]

I have an ultrawide monitor but honestly it can not compete against VR. As it was already said, with a screen (any size, any number), you have an image of a car in front of you and with VR, you are in the car. I will not go back, VR is the way to go for simulation (car or plane)

I agree it is the future but it's currently a blury mess on any device you can get your hands on.
For me VR is at the moment out of question when you have such an immersive ultrawide HD screen available that covers basically all of your field of view.
You should try it before djujing it
Sold my CV1 long time ago with no regrets so far.

 

[Ryno917]

I agree it is the future but it's currently a blury mess on any device you can get your hands on.

My Rift isn't blurry in the least.

For me VR is at the moment out of question when you have such an immersive ultrawide HD screen available that covers basically all of your field of view.

For me, an ultrawide HD screen is out of the question when I have VR. Sure, you have a wide FOV but everything at the sides is stretched to high hell - if you turn your head a little to look at that area, what you see is an un-immersive stretched mess. That's not what real life looks like. Also, you still only have a 2D image and no amount of extra pixels will ever solve that.

But, of course, to each their own.

 

[Chris Haye]

I'm not sure there's a lot to add, to be honest. I got my Rift on Black Friday and the experience has been so good that it's completely ruined AMS for me! I think I've managed about 3 hours total on AMS in that time, due to the fact you can't use VR. On the other hand, I've rocked up 200+ in Assetto Corsa since I got the rift.

I think the tl:dr for sim racing in VR is: It's a game changer unless you're the sort of person that prioritises resolution over other factors.

 

[Brandon Wright]

My Rift isn't blurry in the least.

Neither is mine.

 

[y2kfred]

I personally use VR with HTC VIVE and I would never go back to 2D because you can drive more precise.

My personal tip: wait for HTC Vive Pro, Samsung Odysse or Pimax 8k for higher VR resolution an buy a NVidia Ampere. All these things should be available in the next 6 months.

 

[motoliser]

My Rift isn't blurry in the least.



For me, an ultrawide HD screen is out of the question when I have VR. Sure, you have a wide FOV but everything at the sides is stretched to high hell - if you turn your head a little to look at that area, what you see is an un-immersive stretched mess. That's not what real life looks like. Also, you still only have a 2D image and no amount of extra pixels will ever solve that.

But, of course, to each their own.

Again you shouldn't talk about what you haven't experienced. There is no stretching whatsoever on the ultrawide games ready.
The huge diference is the undeniable fact that VR is Blurry and you can't see anything focused from 5 meters distance ahead.
Whoever says his VR isn't blurry is either a fanboy or should definitely seek some eye specialist assistance.
I loved VR for what it promises but for now it's completely out of question for anyone who seeks good image quality.
Don't forget I never said VR isn't the way to go...I just letting everyone know that at the moment it is very very mediocre when it comes to image quality despite what anyone may claim... they are simply lying to you.

now where's is that stretching you talk about????

View attachment 236029

 

[dud]

To update from my current opinion: I still use my single 4k screen more than my Rift. Not really because of fun reasons, but because I intensely work on my ability to set up cars correctly, and that is pretty annoying in VR. Due to the test drives with these setups also being on 4k (too lazy to reconfigure graphics) I still drive better times with the screen.

I actually regressed in my adjustment to VR, I see the hexagons more clearly again ("screen door effect"). I still wouldn't give up my VR set. I think I'm still in the return window with Amazon, not temped to return it.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I agree it is the future but it's currently a blury mess on any device you can get your hands on.
For me VR is at the moment out of question when you have such an immersive ultrawide HD screen available that covers basically all of your field of view.
You should try it before djujing it
Sold my CV1 long time ago with no regrets so far.

motoliser, welcome to Race Departement, all of your 8 post so far are either defending your wide screen or showing it, it is obviously close to your hart. As a proud owner you fell like showing it to the world and defending the time, money and efforts invested in your new screen and the cute rig that support it. Congratulation on your set up, it looks really great, I am sure you are also really eager to show it to your friends.
I agree with you that 4K screen is much sharper than any VR available today and if graphic quality is the major aspect of why you enjoy driving SIMs, beside looking at your rig, then VR is not an option. The graphic in VR compare to a 4K monitor look very bad.
There is of course a lot more to VR, but you know that, you had one briefly and decided to discard it.
I wish you a long and enlightening experience at Race Department, with many friends to discuss with.
As for this VR user, I will keep enjoying the magic of it.

 

[motoliser]

motoliser, welcome to Race Departement, all of your 8 post so far are either defending your wide screen or showing it, it is obviously close to your hart. As a proud owner you fell like showing it to the world and defending the time, money and efforts invested in your new screen and the cute rig that support it. Congratulation on your set up, it looks really great, I am sure you are also really eager to show it to your friends.
I agree with you that 4K screen is much sharper than any VR available today and if graphic quality is the major aspect of why you enjoy driving SIMs, beside looking at your rig, then VR is not an option. The graphic in VR compare to a 4K monitor look very bad.
There is of course a lot more to VR, but you know that, you had one briefly and decided to discard it.
I wish you a long and enlightening experience at Race Department, with many friends to discuss with.
As for this VR user, I will keep enjoying the magic of it.

Thanks but let me make one thing clear.
When I say VR isnt good enough at the moment I am not saying I am completly satisfied with my current rig setup.
I am too looking forward to get my hands on a crisp clear VR set however I cant help to laugh when hearing people saying that their VR equipment isn't blurry, when I have waited in line for 6 months to get the highest definition VR set and still was a blurry mess.
I am on the other hand trying to help people by alerting them of the downsides of VR.
Like I said my current ultrawide is not the ultimate display but after having experienced all forms of setups it is undeniably the most comprensive immersion package available at the moment.
By the way I assume you race alot more then I do but I don't see the relevance of that for this post. Also the reason my posts are about my setup is mostly because I was asked to show it in more detail not the other way around as you imply.
Thanks again.

 

[Brandon Wright]

The huge diference is the undeniable fact that VR is Blurry and you can't see anything focused from 5 meters distance ahead.

I'll deny it all day. Stuff in the very very far distance (like mountains 50 miles from the track) can be a bit blurry but all the important stuff is fine. The interior of the car looks crisp, I can read stuff on the dash, I can read signs on the side of the track. Yeah, I'll deny that all day. I'll admit it varies from game to game, PCars2 can be a bit blurry but I don't play it so that's not a concern. On iRacing everything is very crisp and doesn't look much different from my monitors if I'm honest. In AC far distance stuff can be blurry but everything with the track and car is fine, maybe not quite as sharp as on a monitor but close enough to not matter and I can read things 5 meters ahead without issue.

Whoever says his VR isn't blurry is either a fanboy or should definitely seek some eye specialist assistance.

So, wait, I should see an eye specialist to make my vision blurry because it's currently too clear? That doesn't make a lot of sense mate.

 

[motoliser]

I'll deny it all day. Stuff in the very very far distance (like mountains 50 miles from the track) can be a bit blurry but all the important stuff is fine. The interior of the car looks crisp, I can read stuff on the dash, I can read signs on the side of the track. Yeah, I'll deny that all day. I'll admit it varies from game to game, PCars2 can be a bit blurry but I don't play it so that's not a concern. On iRacing everything is very crisp and doesn't look much different from my monitors if I'm honest. In AC far distance stuff can be blurry but everything with the track and car is fine, maybe not quite as sharp as on a monitor but close enough to not matter and I can read things 5 meters ahead without issue.



So, wait, I should see an eye specialist to make my vision blurry because it's currently too clear? That doesn't make a lot of sense mate.

As long as you're happy mate...

 

[Jens Roos]

In it's current state VR is not an attractive option for many, the cost is relative low compare to this nice wide screen in previous post or any high end triple setup (7680x1440) going 100fps or more. If the cost was the only factor everyone should go VR.

With the current resolution it will not be as sharp/crisp or what you would like to call it compared to any monitor of better quality, good enough for some but still lower than what some will find acceptable.

The FOV is to narrow, with the monitor you can glance at the side where in the VR you keep on turning you head. Yes you probably get use to that but still, not natural. In any helmet you would get wider FOV, in many cars there is still use of open face helmets with almost no FOV restriction.

For longer races the heat will be an issue unless you have an very controlled environment, I would for sure not be interested to borrow my own VR headset after an 2 hour long race. During race you would also need to drink fluid, and most likely need to access some keys on the keyboard for some reason.

During that time, you would also be totally isolated what is happening in the environment around yourself, not always an good thing.

Many VR users get use to access buttons/keys for sure, but access to these inputs are more difficult and open for fatal mistakes. And as mention, during training/tuning jumping around in the setups and/or reading logs would not work good in VR as well.


To use VR in simracing there is more than just the low res issue keeping me from being exited about it in it's current state.

 

[Brandon Wright]

As long as you're happy mate...

Extremely. I'll admit that the first week or two I was not entirely happy and even considered returning it, but after I got my settings dialed in and gave my brain a little time to adjust I've never been happier.

With the current resolution it will not be as sharp/crisp or what you would like to call it compared to any monitor of better quality, good enough for some but still lower than what some will find acceptable.

My first couple weeks I wasn't happy with the resolution but once I got my settings dialed in and my brain adapted suddenly everything became quite nice. Weird how that happens, neat to literally see/feel your brain adapt to this stuff. YMMV

The FOV is to narrow, with the monitor you can glance at the side where in the VR you keep on turning you head. Yes you probably get use to that but still, not natural. In any helmet you would get wider FOV, in many cars there is still use of open face helmets with almost no FOV restriction.

I came from triple 27" screens but have never been bothered by the FOV. To me it's about the same as what I'd see on a single monitor or through a helmet, a little more restrictive than either of those but not enough to ever cause me any issues and it feels extremely natural to just move my head around to see what I want to see. YMMV

For longer races the heat will be an issue unless you have an very controlled environment, I would for sure not be interested to borrow my own VR headset after an 2 hour long race. During race you would also need to drink fluid, and most likely need to access some keys on the keyboard for some reason.

Not an issue at all. I can have the headset on for 2-3 hours straight and feel no heat from it nor does it make me sweat at all, when I take it off the foam is as dry as when I put it on. I have a small USB fan I sometimes turn on which probably helps a bit but nothing drastic. No problems chugging down some beer on the front stretch (just have to tip my head back a bit more). And for the most part I can do commands on my keyboard without having to take the headset off, that took a week or two to get the muscle memory built up but now I can do simple commands with no problem. YMMV

During that time, you would also be totally isolated what is happening in the environment around yourself, not always an good thing.

Luckily, I live alone so nothing to be aware of. YMMV

Many VR users get use to access buttons/keys for sure, but access to these inputs are more difficult and open for fatal mistakes. And as mention, during training/tuning jumping around in the setups and/or reading logs would not work good in VR as well.

None of this has ever caused me any issues. Obviously I don't read logs in VR but for tuning and adjusting setups and whatnot that all works perfectly fine in VR so I'm not sure what the issues there would be. It takes a few weeks before you feel comfortable with it all but I honestly don't feel VR causes me any significant hindrances compared to monitors. YMMV

VR isn't perfect, and obviously Your Mileage May Vary with some of these things. But as I've said before, you can't make a solid impression about VR until you've been using it for a few weeks because your brain does some serious adapting and things that bothered you the first couple times you put the HMD on either go away completely or become so insignificant that they don't matter anymore. I went from almost returning it for a refund to never wanting to play without it again in the span of about 3 weeks, needless to say I'm extremely happy I stuck with it and am enjoying sim racing (and other games) far more now than I ever have.

 

[Flibbberflops]

I agree it is the future but it's currently a blury mess on any device you can get your hands on.
For me VR is at the moment out of question when you have such an immersive ultrawide HD screen available that covers basically all of your field of view.
You should try it before djujing it
Sold my CV1 long time ago with no regrets so far.

Whooo there buddy. Lets be objective here.Don't get me wrong, VR has its faults but its also not good to totally overlook the downsides to tripple/widesceen gaming.

Blur: there is a difference between blur and low resolution. VR is not blurry it is lower resolution than your widescreen... and that lower resolution is pin sharp (unless you have the headset incorrectly mounted). To be subjective, your eyes only actually focus on 5% of the screen in front. The rest is actually blurred (as in real blur). including when you look at your monitor.

Immersion: This is subjectve. You say your monitor is very immersive. Yet you see past the fact that you have several display boxes all over your screen. None of which you would get in real life. Therefore your immersion is ignoring the fact that you have artificial aids all over your screen. This is simular to the VR guys who look past the lower resolution of the screen. In VR you don't have a fake rear view mirror floating the air, you have the real one... or you look over you shoulder. Simularly, you don't need pop up windows populating the screen in VR because you look down at your stack... or you don't have that information in that car (which is obviously more realistic). To this end, it shows that it doesn't matter how fake or limited the medium is, your mind can do a great job of ignoring the faults.

FOV: Granted your widescreen covers your FOV when looking straight ahead but when turn you head to look at a mirror some of you FOV will be looking at the wallpaper (even if you have a certain degree of head tracking. Therefore In pancake screen gaming you may indeed have sufficient horizontal FOV for a static head situation but obviously VR gives you vision which is only limited by the amount you can move your head.

Widescreen Sretching: (Regarding the last two photos you posted). After saying all of that, I think you may be right about about VR after all. I say this purely because when I sit in the Redbull 2017 using VR, the side mirrors are not about 3 feet wide! I wonder if there is a VR fix availible? (sorry that was a low blow and childish of me).

 

[Ryno917]

Again you shouldn't talk about what you haven't experienced. There is no stretching whatsoever on the ultrawide games ready.
The huge diference is the undeniable fact that VR is Blurry and you can't see anything focused from 5 meters distance ahead.
Whoever says his VR isn't blurry is either a fanboy or should definitely seek some eye specialist assistance.

I can see things clearly in VR just fine. Like I said, I've never had an issue seeing anything in VR (except that one time I smudged the lens before starting a race, but that's pure user error). And I have experienced ultrawide, so I do know what I'm talking about.

I loved VR for what it promises but for now it's completely out of question for anyone who seeks good image quality.
Don't forget I never said VR isn't the way to go...I just letting everyone know that at the moment it is very very mediocre when it comes to image quality despite what anyone may claim... they are simply lying to you.

No lies at all. The image quality isn't brilliant, but it's definitely not dismal, either. And with all the other huge benefits VR brings, 2D screens just don't even come close to the immersion.

View attachment 236005 View attachment 236026 now where's is that stretching you talk about????

Do you really not see how bloody wide those mirrors are? How the grass looks like it's stretched sideways. At the sides of the screens it looks like you're travelling through hyperspace. This is one of the biggest downfalls with flat screens; yes, you have a wide FOV but the perspective all goes to the middle of the screen. In VR, it goes to where you look. As a result, your image is always in correct perspective. On 2D screens as soon as you look away from the center of the screen you're looking at a skewed perspective that you would never see in real life. You get the same thing with a triple screen setup. The only benefit an ultrawide gives you over triple screens is the lack of bevel splitting the image.

There's some irony in you calling VR users liars for saying the image quality isn't that bad, and then turn around and say there's no stretching on your screen while posting images of 3' wide mirrors. Unlike the 'blurry mess' of VR, the image stretching on 2D monitors is undeniable.

But, as mentioned, we all have our preferences. I happily give up a bit of resolution for all the massive gains afforded by VR; even in its current state. It's simply worlds ahead of a screen.