Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

As I understand it, plywood is not the best conductor of tactile and that hardwood or mild steel or aluminium plate is better. Also, you have a large piece of plywood for the vibrations to disperse across. Would you be able to add some 80/20 profile sections and have a smaller plate for your heels, to which the ADX could be bolted underneath.

Hmm... good idea and wouldn't take much to implement. Guess I'll be making another 8020 order. :cool:

Yeah, I don't get any vibes in my pedals which is fine by me. I figured just getting something coming through my feet would be good enough and it works for me. I did have the 209 attached directly to the structure that holds my pedals but it made the pedals themselves rattle which is why I moved it to below my heels.

Again, thanks for the isolated heel plate idea! Definitely going to try that regardless of what I use for engine vibes. Makes sense.
 
Nice rug, is it Sparco ;-)

I tried those rubber's and noticed NO difference.
Do you find they made a difference on your setup Rob ?



Different isolators, will vary, you also have to try different options, its the only way to find the best working solution. Not using any, isn't optimal whatsoever. Personally, I look forward to learning more with my own build and just faffing about trying some ideas/options. I also enjoy seeing and reading what others are trying...

Credit at least to these guys giving things a try and seeking to learn or make progress but it seems none of you 8020 guys really want to work together with ideas, testing or experimenting in creative ways or share your own feedback and experiences in doing a group effort kind of thing, like seriously come on.... (lol) ;)

Guys, if that was done, in seeking to find (best working solutions) then 8020 owners could follow in knowing what was a good already tested working solution or range of product and materials to use.
We already have good feedback from Rob and a few others on testing they share....

Don't think I'm alone in saying I want to learn more on this subject and I know I have a lot more to learn, regards specific materials or combos and future testing will help bring more understanding!!!

Compounds in rubbers used or types of elastomers:
Info/Science


Buttkicker state the following:

"As energy from a ButtKicker-brand low frequency audio transducer travels through a couch, chair, platform or stage, these rubber feet act like springs, allowing the furniture to move freely and independently of other structures.

The result is a much stronger effect – without raising the volume/intensity level of the power amplifier. Along with this increased efficiency, users experience much greater tonal sensitivity and fidelity."


 
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Have any of you that used Ti100 type isolators tried a softer isolator or rubber based material used on top of it with both combined? This to give an initial squishy-rebound spring type effect (as the Ti 100 are quite hard).

I recommend the pads I shared, they have a firm but squish to them and could also be cut...

Look
Cheaper Than Chocolate

These are dirt cheap in USA but about £6 each in UK for the 4" square version
It would be good to get someone from USA ship these to UK and then a few of us split the cost or forward them to each other.
 
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Nice rug, is it Sparco ;-)

I tried those rubber's and noticed NO difference.
Do you find they made a difference on your setup Rob ?

No, it's Axminster. :)
Fixed with heavy duty velcro. Raises my small feet slightly, is more comfortable on the heel and, most importantly, stops my feet slipping about.

It didn't make much difference to my setup. Maybe a bit quieter. Maybe more vibration. Maybe placebo. There are just so many variables to this sim tactile lark, it is often difficult to tell. I am happy with it like this though. Having the whole pedal section isolated from the 80/20 rig makes sense to me.
 
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These are dirt cheap in USA but about £6 each in UK for the 4" square version
It would be good to get someone from USA ship these to UK and then a few of us split the cost or forward them to each other.

I use something similar under my rig. I've got 6 of them underneath my frame. They work pretty well but definitely need to be used along with another solution to absorb the big hits.

hpsNZqh.jpg
 
Yeah thats them, I have to order 4x more of the 4" ones for the new seat section I need to build.
Cost me nearly £30 (yikes) for the 4x I already imported via ebay.

Do find the testing with all this interesting, from the hobby perspective, yet know from past it can be a lot of hassle and work to dismantle and reassembling things. Something, perhaps sim racers with already limited free time maybe find hard to convince themselves to do or put that much time or effort into.

In the last month I've bought quite a bit towards my own build but with not much actually happening with the build itself. Some items are for ideas I have, though much of it hardware but cant get to properly use till I get this new seat section built.

I've saved over £260 on retail prices with some good ebay purchases since Jan.

2x Art Split Mix 4
1x Art USB Pre
Behringer Ultralink MS8000 (duplicator)
BK Concert
BK Concert mount plate
BK LFE mount plates (2x)
Various isolators and sound-deadening materials

Still need to buy a bench/pillar drill (£70) and discovered I need lengths of 5" wide x1" deep aluminum rectangle box sections for part of my seat support. Turns out the 4" sample wasnt wide enough internally for bolts/nuts drill positions.

Small steps on a slow and frustrating path to tactile greatness...
 
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@Ceolmor wrote.
Having the whole pedal section isolated from the 80/20 rig makes sense to me.



Whack a curb with your offside front say at Oulton and you feel it not
just in the footwell.

Agree best to try and contain as much energy as possible at source in a sim though.

Even after 6 months I'm still giggling my head off with this tactile lark.
Those file's of Rod's..Mid Eng, Rear, Front Eng..boy they do what they say on the tin.

I'm using Coffee set and swapping out WAV 7 when req.

What I learned pretty early on was each specific car requires tweeks in SSW.
Great that a Prototype can feel so different to a GT1 though.

Tactile appear's to be really taking off.. I know a few guy's over in iracing that considered motion.
Having spent some candy of a decent set of tactile they are quite content..
 
Im fully confident the new files will improve each users potential satisfaction.

With these, I have a new concept in the effects creation.
The effect is created with specifically selected Hz depending on the role nature of the effect. I looked into using octave bands more for these new V5 effects. The amplitude will vary for the 2 or 3 octave tones used. I then mix these to create a "master" for the effect, though different masters are possible by altering the amplitude for one of the tones or changing the actual 1/3 octaves used.

What Ive discovered in testing "wheelslip" as it can be active for several seconds. It was a good effect to use for these new ideas I had. So from each "master" I create it to have 5 variants that alter the Hz within the "master" in progressive steps. Basically shifting the Hz representing the tones used in the "master" uniformly up or down.

Doing this I feel will still give more detail than using single tones like "default" effects use but now it lets the user have 5 options for the "tonal character" of the effect the "master" provides. This will let a user find within the variants A/B/C/D/E a sensation that suits their own tactile and preference. These can be placed into 5x "Car" folders to then let the user test and choose between.

I believe doing this with other effects will also work well. That will come in these tests.
Some new things have been learned, for instance now its possible to get a good response from "wheelslip" using 1% Threshold with right upto 100% gain. It is likely however people will alter the gain based on the variant used.

Some of the older "test" effects I feel had far too much amplitude, so were "hot" even with low SSW gain levels. These new created effects should feel more controlled and smoother.
 
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@Ceolmor wrote.
Having the whole pedal section isolated from the 80/20 rig makes sense to me.

Whack a curb with your offside front say at Oulton and you feel it not
just in the footwell.

I don't know if it because I am in extensions mode, with just two shakers, but I get nothing from kerbs in either SSW or Simvibe.
 
I don't know if it because I am in extensions mode, with just two shakers, but I get nothing from kerbs in either SSW or Simvibe.


What if you smack a sausage curb at Monza chicane ?
 
What if you smack a sausage curb at Monza chicane ?

I get nuffin'.
In neither SSW or SV. I need better settings or I need to go 'Chassis' mode.

I tested in the 962c in AC at Monza with no FFB gain so the sensations from my wheel would not interfere with the shakers. Found I get quite a bit of subtle but nice vibration in the wheel rim from the shakers.
 
@Ceolmor

Check for me some files previously sent to you that they match the way the "Base" & "Folder 2" files appear in Audacity. They would have 2 channels in Audacity but for "left" only the top has the "waveform" and for the "right" only the bottom.

I may have sent files to you in the past that occupied both top/bottom for effects 4/5.
This may be the issue?
 
@Ceolmor

Check for me some files previously sent to you that they match the way the "Base" & "Folder 2" files appear in Audacity. They would have 2 channels in Audacity but for "left" only the top has the "waveform" and for the "right" only the bottom.

I may have sent files to you in the past that occupied both top/bottom for effects 4/5.
This may be the issue?

I'm away for weekend, but will check the files when I get back.
 
So, I'm continuing to work with my current setup (LFE/back, ADX/front) and have got a combo that's - upon initial experimenting - is working well.

Working with SSW, I took the bump effect and modified it within Audacity. Before I was just using it for a seat effect. I had an idea and decided to use it for both front and back but put 3/100 of silence at the front of the waveform that feeds the rear. My thought was is that I should feel the bump in the front before the back and thought this would lend a bit to a sense of realism/immersion. It works pretty nicely.

I also did away with engine beat and working with accel/decel effects and they are working pretty well as well (just playing with front/back gain settings).

The one thing I've noticed though, with AC, I have to bump the gain to near 100% with the bump effects where with RRE I'm around 30% or so if memory serves. I just tried this config out so I haven't tried it with PC2, AMS or iRacing so can't speak to those atm.

Anyway, I feel (hah! see what I did there? :rolleyes:) like I'm on the right track.
 
So, I'm continuing to work with my current setup (LFE/back, ADX/front) and have got a combo that's - upon initial experimenting - is working well.

Working with SSW, I took the bump effect and modified it within Audacity. Before I was just using it for a seat effect. I had an idea and decided to use it for both front and back but put 3/100 of silence at the front of the waveform that feeds the rear. My thought was is that I should feel the bump in the front before the back and thought this would lend a bit to a sense of realism/immersion. It works pretty nicely.

I also did away with engine beat and working with accel/decel effects and they are working pretty well as well (just playing with front/back gain settings).

The one thing I've noticed though, with AC, I have to bump the gain to near 100% with the bump effects where with RRE I'm around 30% or so if memory serves. I just tried this config out so I haven't tried it with PC2, AMS or iRacing so can't speak to those atm.

Anyway, I feel (hah! see what I did there? :rolleyes:) like I'm on the right track.


Stuff like this is what I like to see, people experimenting.
Keep sharing what your trying.

I spent 6 hours working on different effects and testing them yesterday, just got engrossed in it.
The new files seem to be working well and so far using the new approach is enabling me to find settings that can work well on the TST and LFE.


April Tests Info:

Each effect will have:

4x Sets of different levels of amplitude V1 / V2 / V3 / V4
5x Variations of Hz the effect uses A / B / C / D / E

20x Possible combinations that will alter the Hz and the dB used in conjunction with the SSW slider gain.

Why all these?
Such scope should allow the possibility for all models of tactile to find a level of amplitude and using different groups of frequencies from the same "master" waveform, created for the effect.

To have a potentially smoother transition of the effect and be able to use the full 100% SSW slider gain control for improved precision.

People will be able to freely pick and choose for each "channel" what matches or works better on their own hardware.

The tests should help discover which combos work well on different units.
For example an ADX tactile unit using V3 Set C for a particular effect.


Personal Preferences / Different Sims / Different Cars
This will also enable users to have different sensations in the feel and character of the effects operation with the ability to generate different combos for different sims or indeed individual cars if desired.

It should help accommodate the differences in some of the sims people have been reporting in how they output the effects. The more that get involved with testing then the better it can be or the quicker we discover what combos work or feel best on the most basic to the most advanced tactile hardware.

Its upto you guys.....
 
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Mr Latte.

Today I have been playing with Accel Long.

This is supposed to be in seat sides x2 ADV & CEN/SUB
TST and LFE for me.

Running ONLY with this effect checked in SSW.
I have nothing from my TST.

I do feel effect in both Advance seat side's and LFE under the seat.
Effect is a soft thump as I introduce throttle.

The Effect feels best with only the seat ADV.
Soon as I introduce the large LFE the effect is hardly noticable.

I have tried Franken and Coffee WAV 11

I remember the day's when we did not have Engine this was a fabulous effect and quite strong.
Am I best to remove the LFE from WAV 11 ?

Tried various car's / Assetto and iracing.

Thank you
 
Mr Latte.

Today I have been playing with Accel Long.

This is supposed to be in seat sides x2 ADV & CEN/SUB
TST and LFE for me.

Running ONLY with this effect checked in SSW.
I have nothing from my TST.

I do feel effect in both Advance seat side's and LFE under the seat.
Effect is a soft thump as I introduce throttle.

The Effect feels best with only the seat ADV.
Soon as I introduce the large LFE the effect is hardly noticeable.

I have tried Franken and Coffee WAV 11

I remember the day's when we did not have Engine this was a fabulous effect and quite strong.
Am I best to remove the LFE from WAV 11 ?

Tried various car's / Assetto and iracing.

Thank you


LFE no response?
If the channel the LFE is on has an active waveform then it should be producing a response.
What you have to take into account (possibly) is what crossover you may have with the LFE (iNuke dsp)
It could be that certain effects have frequencies that are above the crossover setting.

Eg: an effect mostly using 70Hz and above but the LFE set to a 50Hz crossover.



I don't think you will stick to the old files, when we start with these newer ones.
Your gonna love Tamburello with the new effects and these options. :)

More will be explained about each effect in the new thread, each can be dissected in more detail to its operation and how we should consider what the "master" waveform for it should represent for the character or purpose of the effect. I don't mind having to make alternative based on peoples feedback.

With these new options, the user will be able to shift more focus/strength to low Hz or higher Hz within ANY effects waveform.

An effect for example with a low of 20Hz and a high of 80Hz within its waveform. The user will have the ability to now shift this in two steps to 10% & 20% lower or higher.

Original
Low 20Hz - High 80Hz

Lower Emphasis Shift:
20% Shift = Low 16Hz - High 64Hz
10% Shift = Low 18Hz - High 72Hz

------------------------------------------------------------------

Original
Low 20Hz - High 80Hz

Higher Emphasis Shift
20% Shift = Low 24Hz - High 96Hz
10% Shift = Low 22Hz - High 88Hz


This makes a BIG difference to the feel of the effect, depending on the tactile hardware being used. Yet the effect maintains the same waveform character. Once the user finds a better working Hz range that suits their hardware or preference desired. They can then also alter what level of "gain" they want to then apply. This too will depend on the capabilities of their hardware.

* It is more likely if a user is using a "Low Emphasis Shift" they will want to apply additional gain.
Lower Hz tend to suit having more gain better but midrange bass doesn't. Really though it will depend on the waveform used with each effect.

With these options, Its possible to have SSW at 100% slider volume for an individual effect and the sensation feel rather tame/controlled. Or pushing the limits of their hardware to its max, based on whatever levels of energy they can produce with different frequencies.

Previously we had fixed effects, but the problem with that is what may work for one person or on their hardware and preference, doesn't always seem to pan across to different users or hardware.

It maybe all sounds complicated, but a user will easily feel the differences and quickly determine what does or does not suit their hardware or preference.

I'm still working on how to have all this in folders but sorted and easily selected.
Thoughts welcomed....

* This will now need all 10 "Car" folders.


V = GAIN
Low - High (4 levels)


A / B / C / D / E
C = Normal

A = -20%
B = -10%
D = +10%
E= +20%


Batch 1


V1
A / B / C / D / E = Car folders 1-5

V2
A / B / C / D / E = Car folders 2-10


Batch 2

V3
A / B / C / D / E = Car folders 1-5

V4
A / B / C / D / E = Car folders 2-10

Two or 3 users with the same hardware and if giving feedback.
We should begin to see what Combos work or suit best certain hardware.
Once this is determined then we can exclude what is not needed for each make/model or level of hardware.
 
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Rod, LFE is working great.

Read my post again.
I do feel effect in both Advance seat side's and LFE under the seat.
Effect is a soft thump as I introduce throttle.

The Effect feels best with only the seat ADV.
Soon as I introduce the large LFE the effect is hardly noticeable.


All my unit's test and work fine.
What I'm saying is. Accel LONG is not sending anything to my TST.

Signal is felt in pair of Advance seat sides and also in the LFE under the seat.

BUT

Advance AND LFE operating at the same time the effect I feel in the seat
is very weak..turn LFE amp off and just have Advance on and the effect feels great.

It's as if the LFE is spoiling the effect from the Advance.
 

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