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SimRacing in 2077

Feb 24, 2016
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I mean, the rock music that was written for the Keanu band and not performed by Keanu but some scandinavian band is pretty bad. Nothing to do with rock metal or punk being bad or a bad fit, just this music sounds pretty awful and not at all what I'd imagine that character's band would sound like.

but what I actually came here to say:
The car handling looks really bad in this game. From what I can judge visually, it reminds me of Watch Dogs, which is at the very end of fun-physics for car handling this generation (ok, maybe Battlefield Hardline takes that crown, but that's not an open world game).
Also, how botched horse riding and even the start-walking animation was in Witcher 3 at release is not getting my hopes up that these cars will be fun to drive.
 
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fatal4you

100RPM
Oct 28, 2018
120
123
I mean, the rock music that was written for the Keanu band and not performed by Keanu but some scandinavian band is pretty bad. Nothing to do with rock metal or punk being bad or a bad fit, just this music sounds pretty awful and not at all what I'd imagine that character's band would sound like.

but what I actually came here to say:
The car handling looks really bad in this game. From what I can judge visually, it reminds me of Watch Dogs, which is at the very end of fun-physics for car handling this generation (ok, maybe Battlefield Hardline takes that crown, but that's not an open world game).
Also, how botched horse riding and even the start-walking animation was in Witcher 3 at release is not getting my hopes up that these cars will be fun to drive.
That band is called "refused" and they made bangers like this:

But yeah, I agree on the car's physics, but the game is just a shooter, so it's fine. If I wanted to drive realistically I would pick AC instead of Cyberpunk 2077.
 

dario993

250RPM
Jul 29, 2019
318
132
27
What I really “hate” about this game is the screaming guitars, the awefull music, hardrock or deadmetal or whatever it is called. Makes me wanna throw my tablet out of the window. The game itself looks great and all but the music... the same nasty music as heard in the latest Doom.:thumbsdown:
luckily you can turn it off, at least I presume you can otherwise it is a no buy for me. :D
what yo mean nasty music?
 
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ShredatorFIN

500RPM
Aug 18, 2015
891
1,199
We are all going to get that 911 as game's final goal.
A prototype chip that gives immortality? Meh.. Simracers are after that 911, and we have a city to burn :D

Honestly not sure if I'm even buying this game, looks like a proper time-sink. But surely looks ambitious, seems like one of those games that will push technical boundaries. (And shocked how Paul Jeffrey hasn't heard of this, it's literally everywhere now)
 
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M D Gourley

1000RPM
Premium
Sep 17, 2015
1,529
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This does look interesting, but might a bit over my head / to complicated for this old guy :rolleyes::confused::redface::roflmao:...going by this video telling you what you can do in CP2077:geek:

 

Wachu

10RPM
Jan 13, 2019
15
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That's mostly bullshit. Even CDPR developers have contacted game related media to debunk these articles. The real story is: more than few developers were taking regular overtime (as it is paid twice in Poland) for some time, especially when our economy started to fall apart and salary at CDPR is pretty high itself. Few months ago goverment closed everything and work on the game stopped. Keep in mind that the game was already delayed 2 times by then. After lockdown ended, devs were ASKED in poll do they want to delay game or do they want to take extra hours to finish it on time. They voted for extra hours. The "crunch", as called by media, was planned 8 extra hours per week for 6 weeks and they got paid twice. And they finished early, so now they are back to 40 hour work schedule. Since CDPR decided to not bend the knee after (so called) game journalists trashed Witcher 3 for "racism", they are after them. I don't understand why, really. CDPR is the only AAA developer that isn't using DRM, treats players with respect and have pro-consumer policies within the company. Also most of journalist trashing CDPR were protecting ND when 70% (!) of developers left studio during TLOU2 production due to toxic atmosphere and forced unpaid overtime. These guys have no integrity and sadly their manipulation works, as you believed them and decided to spread news about how abused and opressed developers are...
 

Wachu

10RPM
Jan 13, 2019
15
30
19
What I really “hate” about this game is the screaming guitars, the awefull music, hardrock or deadmetal or whatever it is called. Makes me wanna throw my tablet out of the window. The game itself looks great and all but the music... the same nasty music as heard in the latest Doom.:thumbsdown:
luckily you can turn it off, at least I presume you can otherwise it is a no buy for me. :D
Everything is better with loud, overdriven guitar solo. Electronic metal was THE BEST part of DOOM reboot. I am sick of generic, autotuned, repetitive pop/rap slammed into everything. And tbh I don't think is there anything that better suits retrofuturistic dystopian cyberPUNK setting (with rebel rock star as one of the main characters) than combination of PUNKrock and hardrock with synthesizers and guitar effects considered "futuristic" in the 80's.
 

turbo86

250RPM
Feb 12, 2009
288
408
The only "music" i like hearing when playing a game is some good atmospheric ambience that goes well with the scene. Unless of course it's some nice electro 80s stuff like Generation Zero or the good oldies from the 40s-50s. Love that music.
Now speaking about physics, L.A Noire had some pretty good physics as well. Soft tires and all. It's so weird that many racing games have worse driving physics than some action games. Even GTA games have some pretty good driving physics.
 

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,271
2,930
This does look interesting, but might a bit over my head / to complicated for this old guy :rolleyes::confused::redface::roflmao:...going by this video telling you what you can do in CP2077:geek:

Don't worry, the Witcher games were very "complicated" too but you could also play them very "closed minded" by simply following the path (lol, a witcher pun) that's laying in front of you.
The "issue" about this is that you will only experience 10-20% of the game this way haha.

I'm currently playing the Witcher 3 for the 3rd time. I'm 200 hours in, have about 300 savegames and I started this playthrough in 2017 lol.
Since I already know the story, I'm just running around, freely roaming around the whole map and taking in the atmosphere, experiencing little world events and re-loading after every decision to find out all possibilities.

Then when I think I've seen everything, I go on youtube and find out there are 2 other possibilities if you did this or that 10 quests earlier or did something that normally happens way later in the game before that quest.

At some point you have to decide for such massively detailed and logically attached games:
- do you want to SEE IT ALL or
- do you just want a nice experience with a fluid playthrough

And I can kinda promise you without knowing the game yet, that you will be able to just jump in, play through it, enjoy it and it won't be too complicated or anything :)
 

9kret9

250RPM
Jul 8, 2011
315
295
but what I actually came here to say:
The car handling looks really bad in this game. From what I can judge visually, it reminds me of Watch Dogs, which is at the very end of fun-physics for car handling this generation (ok, maybe Battlefield Hardline takes that crown, but that's not an open world game).
Also, how botched horse riding and even the start-walking animation was in Witcher 3 at release is not getting my hopes up that these cars will be fun to drive.
I guess that opinion is based on the demos that were shown few months ago. After few reviews which pointed out that driving was not natural, CDPR communicated they are working on improving the driving physics. Since then we didn`t see any real in-game driving, so I hope it has been improved at least to make it decent. Let`s see in a month :)
 

BrightCandle

100RPM
Jul 11, 2017
213
143
The sound design all looks and sounds great but the actual driving physics on display don't look too promising.

I would really like for the basics of the fundamental model of driving physics to make it into most games. You don't need to model tire slip angles or detailed suspension models but at the very least get the understeer/oversteer basics with weight transfer and power/braking working so that the very basics of driving are reasonable. Too many games (this one by the looks of things too) just make the handling so baked into particular models of car and it would be a welcome change to have a more fundamental balance combined with the very basics of physics to make the driving a bit more enjoyable and sensible.
 
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Jan 14, 2018
34
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Everything is better with loud, overdriven guitar solo. Electronic metal was THE BEST part of DOOM reboot. I am sick of generic, autotuned, repetitive pop/rap slammed into everything. And tbh I don't think is there anything that better suits retrofuturistic dystopian cyberPUNK setting (with rebel rock star as one of the main characters) than combination of PUNKrock and hardrock with synthesizers and guitar effects considered "futuristic" in the 80's.
Yeah that is a personal preference of course. I can’t stand it. :D
 

M D Gourley

1000RPM
Premium
Sep 17, 2015
1,529
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Then when I think I've seen everything, I go on youtube and find out there are 2 other possibilities if you did this or that 10 quests earlier or did something that normally happens way later in the game before that quest.

At some point you have to decide for such massively detailed and logically attached games:
- do you want to SEE IT ALL or
- do you just want a nice experience with a fluid playthrough
Thanks for that info;) ...it would seem a shame to only experience a small percentage of the game possibilities by following a simple path so what I have done in the past is watch a variety on 'Game Walk Throughs' on You Tube :geek: so I can live vicariously through their gaming experience, as I find this most satisfying :redface::geek::roflmao:....then when finished, jump back into Sim Racing :confused::cool:
 
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Littlefysh

Professional Nutcase
Premium
Jun 17, 2017
167
110
That's mostly bullshit. Even CDPR developers have contacted game related media to debunk these articles. The real story is: more than few developers were taking regular overtime (as it is paid twice in Poland) for some time, especially when our economy started to fall apart and salary at CDPR is pretty high itself. Few months ago goverment closed everything and work on the game stopped. Keep in mind that the game was already delayed 2 times by then. After lockdown ended, devs were ASKED in poll do they want to delay game or do they want to take extra hours to finish it on time. They voted for extra hours. The "crunch", as called by media, was planned 8 extra hours per week for 6 weeks and they got paid twice. And they finished early, so now they are back to 40 hour work schedule. Since CDPR decided to not bend the knee after (so called) game journalists trashed Witcher 3 for "racism", they are after them. I don't understand why, really. CDPR is the only AAA developer that isn't using DRM, treats players with respect and have pro-consumer policies within the company. Also most of journalist trashing CDPR were protecting ND when 70% (!) of developers left studio during TLOU2 production due to toxic atmosphere and forced unpaid overtime. These guys have no integrity and sadly their manipulation works, as you believed them and decided to spread news about how abused and opressed developers are...
Are you going to source these devs saying that everything is fine? Are you going to justify the claim that if a few employees say everything is fine then it invalidates any criticism anyone else presents?

I realise that there may be some who are not being abused and who do not see abuse happening, which honestly makes me happy because they're not getting abused. But that doesn't mean everything is hunky-dory.
 

Wachu

10RPM
Jan 13, 2019
15
30
19
Are you going to source these devs saying that everything is fine? Are you going to justify the claim that if a few employees say everything is fine then it invalidates any criticism anyone else presents?

I realise that there may be some who are not being abused and who do not see abuse happening, which honestly makes me happy because they're not getting abused. But that doesn't mean everything is hunky-dory.
There are 2 sources: one is telling that there is crunch, the other is saying that this isn't a case. First source is Jason Schreier's tweet in which he intentionally missrepresents polish labour law, even after mentioning it. He also quotes lead producer's apology letter but then he misrepresent its content to support his claims. Multiple articles talking about CP2077 crunch are just quoting parts of Schreier's tweets without any investigation on their own.
The other source is Gameinformer's stream in which one of GI's journalist were talking about her interactions with developers. According to her many people were taking overtime before "catch up" but it was all valuntary. According to her research many developers (mostly those more active on social media) were upset about Schreier's piece because they got accused of defending crunch when they just wanted to celebrate CP2077 going gold.
Also my doubt of situation painted in articles about crunch is based on polish law and current situation in polish economy. There is limit of overtime hours employees can take voluntary in Poland and employer cannot demand more from the employee. There are however many people that put overtime regularly, as it is paid twice here. Mandatory 48 hour work week described as "horrible crunch" is norm in Poland now as situation in workplaces is unstable with goverment changing covid regulations almost every month.

In conclusion: there are 2 sources, one intentionally misrepresents events and regulations he uses as evidence to its claims, while the author has both good media investigations and manipulative articles intentionally misrepresenting facts (most of them were used to push his idea of unions as solution to industry problems) in his portfolio. I am not familiar with Gameinformer's journalist that talked about this situation, however situation she described was way more likely to happen based on both polish laws and opinions about current working conditions at CDPR according to word by mouth among developers in Poland.
 
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Littlefysh

Professional Nutcase
Premium
Jun 17, 2017
167
110
There are 2 sources: one is telling that there is crunch, the other is saying that this isn't a case. First source is Jason Schreier's tweet in which he intentionally missrepresents polish labour law, even after mentioning it. He also quotes lead producer's apology letter but then he misrepresent its content to support his claims. Multiple articles talking about CP2077 crunch are just quoting parts of Schreier's tweets without any investigation on their own.
This is factually incorrect, there's no other way I can put it. There are more than two sources that do not all trace back to the two sources you claim they do.

This article (https://kotaku.com/report-cyberpunk-2077-developers-will-be-crunching-de-1845220746) sources a Bloomberg article (this one: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...6-day-weeks-ahead-of-game-debut?sref=P6Q0mxvj) which does not mention Schreier's tweet at any point, but it does in fact have its own investigation. Everything in that previous sentence directly contradicts what you've said, which given that you've not provided any solid links to sources... I'm sure I don't have to describe how that looks.

The other source is Gameinformer's stream in which one of GI's journalist were talking about her interactions with developers. According to her many people were taking overtime before "catch up" but it was all valuntary.
So two things here. First, can I have a source? I'm genuinely interested. Something like a timestamp too would be very helpful. Secondly, the issue of "voluntary" work and the nature in which it may or may not seem voluntary is a big talking point in the wider games industry. The Polish Laws certainly do seem to give developers some protection and the situation at CDPR is better than most, but that doesn't make it good. It just means its less bad. If you want my full argument on the "voluntary" or not argument, the best source that explains it concisely that I can think of is this:

If you want to do some reading the gamedaily.biz article mentioned at the timestamp in that link is here: https://gamedaily.biz/article/1029/...velopers-say-crunch-is-expected-at-their-jobs
That articles source is here: https://www.takethis.org/programs/industry-research/state-of-the-industry-white-paper/

According to her research many developers (mostly those more active on social media) were upset about Schreier's piece because they got accused of defending crunch when they just wanted to celebrate CP2077 going gold.
I don't have a source so I can't disprove this, but that's because I have nothing to disprove other than what you're saying. What does "going gold" mean? That one has completely gone over my head, I've no idea what that means.

Also my doubt of situation painted in articles about crunch is based on polish law and current situation in polish economy. There is limit of overtime hours employees can take voluntary in Poland and employer cannot demand more from the employee. There are however many people that put overtime regularly, as it is paid twice here. Mandatory 48 hour work week described as "horrible crunch" is norm in Poland now as situation in workplaces is unstable with goverment changing covid regulations almost every month.
Full disclaimer, I'm not too familiar with this situation. I'd hazard a guess that if the laws surrounding the situation are wording similarly to yours then the use of the word "demand" is being exploited and disguised as "voluntary". This is a guess for this specific situation though, but it's based on the general industry.

However, the protections in Poland seem better than most other places, although that is likely to be compromised by the fluid and ongoing COVID situation, which can also be said for everywhere else.

In conclusion: there are 2 sources, one intentionally misrepresents events and regulations he uses as evidence to its claims, while the author has both good media investigations and manipulative articles intentionally misrepresenting facts (most of them were used to push his idea of unions as solution to industry problems) in his portfolio.
Please source this. You're presenting it as if it is obvious and fact, but you have no sources. You're also stating your view of someone else's motivations as if it is fact, which even sourced has to be taken with a bucket of salt. I will say that unions being pushed is common in games journalists who don't just review stuff, as well as former employees. The responsibility on this I suppose is with the reader, to separate sources and their validity from the opinions of the reporter which presents those sources. Maybe there's a reason for that? I guess we'll never know.

I am not familiar with Gameinformer's journalist that talked about this situation, however situation she described was way more likely to happen based on both polish laws and opinions about current working conditions at CDPR according to word by mouth among developers in Poland.
So first off, this isn't sourced again so I can only say very limited things about this, whether positive or negative. I'll accept that a lot of the time situations that some may call "crunch", others may call "voluntary". However, that doesn't make the situation good or not. The fact that such polarising words are used doesn't paint a clear picture either way, assuming all else is equal. Given the fact that social media blackouts for employees has happened at development studios before, I personally can't trust only social media sources or the lack thereof on something. In addition to other sources, sure, but not alone. This all comes back to the "voluntary" argument though, as well as the fact that CDPR are better than most "AAA" developers in regard to working conditions.

On its own, the bit about the Game Informer journalist doesn't seem to actually say much to me. It reads as a framing device to demonise Jason Schreier. I'd personally prefer something where you don't have to frame something much to be demonised because it's objectively bad, as opposed to possibly the most biased description of a reporter I've had the pleasure of reading in the past few months.

Please don't just reply telling me I'm clearly wrong. If you give me sources, I will read them. So please, if you're going to claim something then source it, because I will concede if I read your source and it makes me reconsider. I can't reconsider something when there is nothing that will make me reconsider.
 

XRRoy

100RPM
Aug 22, 2014
148
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I know it's all subjective but I struggle to rationalise how someone can dislike in any way the last 2 Doom game soundtracks.

Not the best soundtracks of all time (at least for me), but the best metal ones definitely.
Well, you see... people have their own taste, albeit some of them are horrible. :whistling:
 
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