SEASON 10 Race 1 ISTANBUL INCIDENT REPORT

[Reik Major]

Thank you for the video Nicolas! You asked for opinions, so this is my one:

1.
I think your pass on Bob through the kink is a clear one and for me it looks like Bob didn't recognize you and wants to slip stream the car in front, so he pushes you a little bit much to the right track side due to not knowing you are there. (I asume that only from watching the vid)

2.
Now when you have the slip stream of the car in front you pass Bob, so he finally knows you are there. From my point of view Bob still has the best position (inside line) to possibly outbrake both of you.

Personally I think it is a very dangerous move by you to make a quick and very late line change exactly in front of another driver at high speed immediately before braking very hard. The focus of my argumentation is based on very late before the braking zone. This makes it unpredictable for Bob because he's focused on finding his braking point, too. and due to the fact he has the inside line, I would expect him to brake late just to try a move on you.

If your line change happend far earlier on the straight, you had had the best line to try a move on the car in front of you and then it would have been Bobs decision to either go to your inside or to settle behind both of you.

But in that particular situation it would have been best to settle behind the car in front and hold your line.

 

[Nicolas Rouge]

Thanks for your feedback guys. I think you're right Reik, I should have shown my intentions to Bob much earlier, or stay in my line. I hope I won't do it again!

 

[Reik Major]

He, he, it's not that I tell how to do it right and you have to say you won't do that again. But somehow it feels good, lol.

In my view you did little wrong. I think Bob should have antciapted that you needed to move a little to the left to avoid being right behind the car in front, and thus he should have moved to the left as well before braking.

Nico, in a cunstructive way I like to add here, that you often like the driver who "gets involved" to anticipate things better. Of course anticipation always plays a big role in avoiding incidents. But in the first place I think the driver "who actively involves" another driver has the responsibility not to make it too dangerous for the driver he involves.

It looks like we have different opinions about what Nicolas "needs" to do in that situation.

You say that Nicolas needs to go left because he's quicker than the car in front and Bob has to recognize it and give him some more room by going further left.

I say that Nicolas needs to lift and settle down behind the car he's closing up, because there's no safe way he can go next to the slower car in front.

What can we do now?

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Nico, in a cunstructive way I like to add here, that you often like the driver who "gets involved" to anticipate things better. Of course anticipation always plays a big role in avoiding incidents. But in the first place I think the driver "who actively involves" another driver has the responsibility not to make it too dangerous for the driver he involves.

I guess I am not talking about who I think did wrong, but rather how I wish to see such a situation solved in the future.

I agree that when "unexpected" things happen on track it is better to lift, and Nicolas could and should have done this, just the same way I should have when being behind Chirlie. However, I do not see this as the fruitful area where we can continue to improve and evolve as a league.

If I was Bob I would have recognised that there were 2 more cars ahead of Nicolas, that he very likely would want to change lanes to move away from the rear of the car ahead of him before braking zone, thus I would have picked a lane much further to the left to allow all 4 cars to fight out a great battle instead of creating a situation where one driver must pull out for safety reasons.

So to sum up, i think Bob unintentionally put Nicolas in a situation where it was danger and Nicolas needed to pull out (which he didn't do). I prefer to focus on avoiding creating such situations in the first place.

And as everybody else, this is only my opinion, and I understand others (most) see it differently.

EDIT: I also have a clear idea that it is much more logical/easy to change actions (Bob) rather than reactions (Nicolas).

EDIT2: I assume Bob not in anyway gets insulted by my views, it is obiously not my intention.

EDIT3: I am not the admin, it is only my view as a driver, the same way Reik's input is.

 

[Valter Ostman]

Thanks for illustrative video Nicolas.

In my view you did little wrong. I think Bob should have antciapted that you needed to move a little to the left to avoid being right behind the car in front, and thus he should have moved to the left as well before braking.

The second part, when you are stranded, it all happens so quickly, and I find it hard to say that you should have done differently. Perhaps you could have locked your tires immediatly? I don't know. Looks more like an incident caused by the initial contact.

Good, I don't have to write anything. It's already said here in Nicolai's post. My only remark is: It's always easier for the followers to pass a stationary car. Like it says above, one should try to stop the car at once to make avoiding actions easier in this kind of situation.
EDIT: One more remark. If I had been driving either of Bob's or Nicolas car, I think I would have started to brake slightly earlier but not with full brake-power. That suits me when following a group, and I usually don't loose much overall in the corner by doing so. At least that's my experience. But then you have to bear in mind I'm not a race winning driver.

 

[Reik Major]

Nico and Valter, I get your points and I have to give in honestly, if I was Bob in that situation I would have given more room too. Not to make it more comfortable for Nicols but to be safer on my own, because I wouldn't like to get involved in a crash.

So finally I'm with you when it comes to avoiding incidents.

I think I should have expressed myself a little bit different, because as you can see I agree with you that Bob could have moved over. But in that case he didn't so I wanted to say that I see Nicolas move as the bigger issue than Bob not giving room.

I mean in general when it comes to situations where the surrounding drivers don't behave in the optimal way, do we still go for the gap then or should we be patient and wait for a better moment?

 

[Bob Luneski]

I appreciate Nicolas's point of view, I appreciate Nico's point of view, and I appreciate Reik's point of view. I didn't see Nicolas in T11 and genuinely didn't expect him to change lines so late in the hard braking zone of T12. There's something we can all learn from this as we adjust to the new vehicle for S10.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I mean in general when it comes to situations where the surrounding drivers don't behave in the optimal way, do we still go for the gap then or should we be patient and wait for a better moment?

We should be patient. I totally agree that when Nicolas is in that situation he should think safety, as I should have in the Chirlie situation.

if I was Bob in that situation I would have given more room too. Not to make it more comfortable for Nicols but to be safer on my own, because I wouldn't like to get involved in a crash.

I agree with you, but I see Nicolas' comfort as my ticket to safety in that situation

 

[Reik Major]

I agree with you, but I see Nicolas' comfort as my ticket to safety in that situation

You got me, I'm an egoist on track.

But my selfish wish for my own safety is always something which the surrounding drivers automatically benefit from, so the result of "safety for everyone" should be the same.

 

[David Turnbull]

my opinion on it is both did wrong so it cancels each others involvement out, to me it looks obvious that bob and nicolas didnt read any of the discussion about t11, bob should have been aware of nicolas at t11 and nicolas could maybe have picked the other side, fitting through the gap surpised bob and made it very risky, the second part to me is caused by turn 11, bob didnt have a defined lane and nicolas ended up where he didnt want to be, by moving over so late on the straight nicolas gave bob no chance to react, but both should be very aware that theres 2 cars fighting ahead and both need to brake earlier.

my conclusion is both couldve avoided it in the run up to the corner by having a defined lane after turn 11, more mirror use and no sudden moves at the end of the straight.

p.s the subsequent spin and people running into nicolas is one of them things, its so unpredictable what someone is going to do when they have a spin, how they will recover that no blame can be attached to anyone here and i dont think much can be done to change it in the future unless anyone who spins out on the track just waits and does nothing until the track map is clear.

 

[Henrik Jordfald Olsen]

Bob tapped my rear lightly but it caused my car to spin, putting me in Henrik's way. I'd really like to know what you think of that incident (am I to blame?). Anyway, I'm really sorry for Henrik..

Like others said it was caused by the prior incident, there was not much to do - just one of those things that happen. A race incident between us two.
When I see the replay I realize that I should have made a more clear attempt to avoid you.
But as I remember it all happened very quickly.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

No incidents to report i think if not ill correct when i watch replay in full later.

I think sometimes if people ahead are fighting for position sometimes you just have to be patient yourself, ive learnt from past experience when say chasing 2 people fighting sometimes our lane change rules etc dont really work good as your following slipstream of another guy and they are moving back n forth fightings, i usually just watch guys ahead until i know they know im there etc.

Looking at the incident with Nicolas and Bob i think Nicolas should have, as has been said just been little more patient, but also when later once you are side by side theres more room on the track to be used there and Bob could have used more of a inside line to give each other some space.

There was 1 slight worrying thing i also noticed a time when Tim and/or Anthony actually disappear from track behind me for about 20 secs or so not sure what exactly happens but i think it would have been more a worry had i been behind, other than that i was able to race close nps etc with Tim so abit strange. (ill make vid when i check replay)
May have been some lag or something ill do a video later and add it be interesting to know if anyone seen anything like this and if Tim experience lag around same time, if was a lap or 2 before our fun battle.

 

[Peter Marshall]

There was 1 slight worrying thing i also noticed a time when Tim and/or Anthony actually disappear from track behind me for about 20 secs or so not sure what exactly happens but i think it would have been more a worry had i been behind, other than that i was able to race close nps etc with Tim so abit strange. (ill make vid when i check replay)
May have been some lag or something ill do a video later and add it be interesting to know if anyone seen anything like this and if Tim experience lag around same time, if was a lap or 2 before our fun battle.

I do remember "passing" a stationary [frozen] Tim on the exit of Turn 10. Moments latter and Tim reappeared back in front of me and part of the group of four I was chasing for most of the first stint. I didn't mention this earlier because nothing bad happened to me and I have assumed I am the Aussie with the poorest internet connection [maybe the cheapest ]. IOW, I thought it was my connection that made me see Tim frozen although now I thinking not. This was not during lap 2 though....much latter in the first half of the race.

 

[Bob Miley]

No incidents, except some took my pitbox when I needed it most.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

Ye your right Peter it was a freeze, must be some lag or something hopefully just a spike and something that wont happen much anyway , Kennet maybe got better idea of whats happening.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

The "incident" I remembered happened at the end of lap two. Anthony had spun a few cars ahead of me, and in stead of standing still he started moving towards the racing line. But for me it was no incident as the contact had no consequences for me, and I dont think I did much wrong either

About Bob - Nicolas incident, I race hard all the time and rearly have an incident. I feel what most are saying to Nicolas and Bob is; take it more easy. What I say is, you can race that hard if you understand each other on track. I imagine 3 lanes and that Bob should anticipate Nicolas taking lane 2 and himself lane 3 when they were all done slip streaming in lane 1. But of course, if you don't feel comfortable that those around are on the same wave length, you should play it safe.

 

[Anthony Ishak]

My apology for being late, I am completely flat out with family and work.

TS 299

Reik and Elizer were chasing me at the back of the long strait; i looked in the back mirror for a split of a second to see where they were, missed the braking point and lost the rear right in the middle of the turn.

It was not the safest place to be and to avoid cars piling there I had to move my car immediately, the 1st gear was still engaged so the fastest way was to jump forward and onto the grass and while i was moving forwards i thought the trail of cars would have the time to react and go around me as it was a slow turn ( did not work) , I quickly pressed on the throttle but the car did not move the way I anticipated (rear spinning) so i got stuck there , it was so confusing moment to decide what to do next as everything happened so quickly with cars start passing me on the left and right and causing some to run into me , no damage to my car and hopefully no damage to anyone.

My apology to all for causing this chaos , that what my slow brain could come up with in this situation , maybe right or wrong , I do not know, we have seen in previous incidents that whatever the spinning car decided to do it always ended in unsuccessful result, do we keep learning Or shall we make it a single simple rule for everyone to FREEZE completely until the track is clear ?

A single rule would make it easier on the brain to trigger that action in a similar situation I guess .

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I think Anthony youve just got to wait there until cars go past, i would have prob reversed a little to and looked for a gap i could so i could resume, the 4 guys you see when you 1st spin(0.12) are probably expecting you to stay stationary there why the confussion i think.
I think we have a rule about joining track safely so would apply here, i know you technically not off the track but you are facing wrong way off the racing line so i tend to look at it the same way.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I think if one are in doubt, then standing still is the best solution

I think the consequences of this incidents were minimal. It almost looks like Anthony is the only one losing places, and I think nobody got damage either? In that case it is boarderline to be classified as an incident, as it does not have consequences for other than yourself

 

[Tim McIver]

Sorry also very slow.

No incidents to report.

I do remember the lag moment Sean is refering too. It only happened once during the whole race for around 2-3 seconds. I was sure I had lost connection and would soon be in bed, then it all just came good again. Only happened the once, apart from that the connection was perfect. As Sean mentioned, we had some great tight racing.