Cars Scorpion S1 Formula 500 1.0.1

[Thrashy]

Thrashy submitted a new resource:

Scorpion S1 Formula 500 - The last bastion of garage engineering in SCCA club racing.

THIS MOD REQUIRES CUSTOM SHADERS PATCH >= 0.1.79

THE CLASS

Originally introduced in the SCCA club racing rules as Formula 440 in the early 80s, Formula 500 is a unique low-cost racing class built around inexpensive, low-displacement motors, minimal aerodynamic devices, and simple-but-effective suspension components.

View attachment 612480

As originally conceived, the class used a two-stroke snowmobile engine...

Read more about this resource...

 

[Wietie]

I noticed that the driver upshifts with the left paddle, and downshifts with the right paddle, which is the opposite of what is usually used.
I'm going to assume this isn't intentional?

GIF as proof, incase wanted -> (https://gyazo.com/c7d6bf0916d0c2726d2da99a215610f8)

 

[mclarenf1papa]

I noticed that the driver upshifts with the left paddle, and downshifts with the right paddle, which is the opposite of what is usually used.
I'm going to assume this isn't intentional?

GIF as proof, incase wanted -> (https://gyazo.com/c7d6bf0916d0c2726d2da99a215610f8)

Real car is like that IIRC

 

[Wietie]

Real car is like that IIRC

Ah nice, I was wondering if it was the case or not indeed!
Nevermind my post then

 

[Interslice]

I can't imagine a 2 stroke CVT sounding great IRL!

 

[edwinjacobs]

hi, here a pointer for improvement:
the track becomes visible inside the car sometimes (I guess when car bottoms out)
It's disturbing (in VR at least)

 

[Johnr777]

Lots of SCCA scorpion real life racers here providing feedback

 

[Johnr777]

I can't imagine a 2 stroke CVT sounding great IRL!

Don’t be ridiculous Brian, don’t you know GSXRs sound like a V8?

 

[Thrashy]

I can't imagine a 2 stroke CVT sounding great IRL!

It has its proponents (snow machine enthusiasts among them), but let's say it's an acquired taste. A small part of the rationale for adding sport-bike engines to the formula was to bring in people who might enjoy the class' value proposition, but couldn't get over the droning sound of the cars.

@Wietie I can confirm that the real car I based this on has reversed paddle shifters from typical. Looks like an error, but it totally intentional

@edwinjacobs thanks for the feedback -- I don't have VR, so the lower portion of the cockpit was completely obscured by the driver legs in my testing. I can implement a fix for VR use that should prevent that clipping.

 

[ApexVGear]

Overall, I'm excited about this release, and great work so far.

I am using VR as well, and I also notice the pavement showing through the bottom pan of the car sometimes.

The big issue I'm experience is extremely low level of grip and a great deal of understeer, even when the tires are at temperature. This is not realistic for such a small, light car. like the Performer by Elkman, Radical SR3, and the Rush SR, which I have experience with.

 

[Frank25]

At full steering angle, the chassis cuts into the front tires. That's very dangerous...

 

[Thrashy]

At full steering angle, the chassis cuts into the front tires. That's very dangerous...

Doh! I had that tuned just right in early versions of the car, but never thought to re-check it after I integrated the final suspension physics from IER.

Overall, I'm excited about this release, and great work so far.

I am using VR as well, and I also notice the pavement showing through the bottom pan of the car sometimes.

The big issue I'm experience is extremely low level of grip and a great deal of understeer, even when the tires are at temperature. This is not realistic for such a small, light car. like the Performer by Elkman, Radical SR3, and the Rush SR, which I have experience with.

Thank you for the feedback! That said, I'm confident that the Scorpion in-game is a reasonably accurate representation of the real thing. IER worked in collaboration with a race team that fields a multi-car fleet of F500s to dial in the physics, and two of that team's drivers validated that effort.

It's worth noting that the Radical and Rush SR differ dramatically from a typical F500 car -- not least by virtue of having independent rear suspension and a differential. The Scorpion's kart-style beam axle is inherently going to create pushy handling; in fact the geometry of an F500's front suspension is all about unloading one of the rear tires in turns to try and overcome this effect. The Performer is much closer conceptually to this car, but benefits from aero grip and somewhat wider track, both of which will give it more traction in the corners.

 

[ApexVGear]

Doh! I had that tuned just right in early versions of the car, but never thought to re-check it after I integrated the final suspension physics from IER.



Thank you for the feedback! That said, I'm confident that the Scorpion in-game is a reasonably accurate representation of the real thing. IER worked in collaboration with a race team that fields a multi-car fleet of F500s to dial in the physics, and two of that team's drivers validated that effort.

It's worth noting that the Radical and Rush SR differ dramatically from a typical F500 car -- not least by virtue of having independent rear suspension and a differential. The Scorpion's kart-style beam axle is inherently going to create pushy handling; in fact the geometry of an F500's front suspension is all about unloading one of the rear tires in turns to try and overcome this effect. The Performer is much closer conceptually to this car, but benefits from aero grip and somewhat wider track, both of which will give it more traction in the corners.

Are you sure the correct physics are in place for this version? Does a real Scorpion require slowing to under 25mph for most medium turns, as this simulated version requires to prevent it from understeering? I can take a shifter kart around the same turns at 45-60mph. This simulated version drives like it has worn out tires, and weighs a couple of tons. I'll check around and see if I know someone that has one--maybe score some real test laps. In the meantime, I just don't enjoy driving this in its current state.

I wouldn't expect it to be as agile as a Superkart as it's they're lighter with some aero, but it shouldn't be too far off.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Are you sure the correct physics are in place for this version? Does a real Scorpion require slowing to under 25mph for most medium turns, as this simulated version requires to prevent it from understeering? I can take a shifter kart around the same turns at 45-60mph. This simulated version drives like it has worn out tires, and weighs a couple of tons. I'll check around and see if I know someone that has one--maybe score some real test laps. In the meantime, I just don't enjoy driving this in its current state.

I wouldn't expect it to be as agile as a Superkart as it's they're lighter with some aero, but it shouldn't be too far off.

This sort of stuff is why IER has stopped pursuing any public releases.

A superkart weighs half of the F500, and its wheelbase is half of an F500's. That yields approximately 1/4 of the yaw inertia of an F500. And the F500 has rather soft suspension, much taller+harder tires, a much slower steering setup (~10:1 instead of ~1:1), etc. Not in any way comparable.

On the math end of things, if you can only take the corners at 25 mph that you'd take at 60 mph in a superkart, you're saying the kart pulls 5.76x more G than the F500. F500 on csp1.79 public pulls over 1.5g, so your 9g theoretical superkart would make you black out IRL. Make sure you're on the right version of the patch and that your controls are configured properly. Not much else to be said for that.

Besides that, as Thrashy said, real drivers have already tested the car and found it to be realistic. Additional feedback from people who have not driven the car is not needed.

 

[Thrashy]

This sort of stuff is why IER has stopped pursuing any public releases.

Sorry to put you into the position of having to defend your work like this. I figured since you'd piped up about your involvement in the "What Are You Working On?" thread there was no harm, but I appear to have miscalculated.

Also, if we do ever turn up a 9G superkart I want a turn!

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Sorry to put you into the position of having to defend your work like this. I figured since you'd piped up about your involvement in the "What Are You Working On?" thread there was no harm, but I appear to have miscalculated.

Also, if we do ever turn up a 9G superkart I want a turn!

It was known going into the project so no worries.

 

[chrisracer]

I ran a F5 for many years with the SCCA. I ran a KBS MKVII/Quadrini. Mike Quadrini is the most well know north east tuner for F5. Fun cars. I will have to upgrade to 1.79 so I can try these out! Me taking a win at Pocono race track 1996.

 

[ApexVGear]

This sort of stuff is why IER has stopped pursuing any public releases.

A superkart weighs half of the F500, and its wheelbase is half of an F500's. That yields approximately 1/4 of the yaw inertia of an F500. And the F500 has rather soft suspension, much taller+harder tires, a much slower steering setup (~10:1 instead of ~1:1), etc. Not in any way comparable.

On the math end of things, if you can only take the corners at 25 mph that you'd take at 60 mph in a superkart, you're saying the kart pulls 5.76x more G than the F500. F500 on csp1.79 public pulls over 1.5g, so your 9g theoretical superkart would make you black out IRL. Make sure you're on the right version of the patch and that your controls are configured properly. Not much else to be said for that.

Besides that, as Thrashy said, real drivers have already tested the car and found it to be realistic. Additional feedback from people who have not driven the car is not needed.

I was thinking I would try to find one of these for some hard laps (buy a set of tires for it), and compare video of the real thing to video capture of attempting to drive this simulated version the same way on the same track...

But then I'd probably still be wrong... so never mind. I've wasted too much time here.

 

[GzeroD]

hi, here a pointer for improvement:
the track becomes visible inside the car sometimes (I guess when car bottoms out)
It's disturbing (in VR at least)

May be not the ground but CSP shadows, I've had this occur quite often.

 

[chas1723]

so my guess is Apex has installed this with a CSP version below 1.79. I have had no issues other than skill ones at getting around a corner. I took the Road America Kink at 120mph. I am running CSP 1.80.