New tire model coming to rF2

Bram Hengeveld

RaceDepartment Founder
Staff
Premium
Dec 26, 2006
45,421
18,690
44
At least that is what Gjon tweeted 4 hours ago:

Installing a new state-of-the-art physical and thermodynamic tire model, this will make driving much more intense.
No clue what this means. What do you think?
 

Neil Gault

1000RPM
Feb 21, 2008
1,463
341
The tyres we are used to with rfactor, gtl, gtr2 and race07 are based on the Pacejka curves so i guess some new maths geek has worked out a new formula
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,138
679
No clue what this means. What do you think?
If this is really the first time its been "installed" it seems very late in the day.

There is a general trend to move from a theoretical Pacejka tyre model to a physical or brush tyre model. I think LFS was the first to use this kind of tyre model, but Shift and Forza 3 use it too. I think NetKar Pro moved to this model for v1.1 and Dave Kaemmer is working on this kind of tyre model for iRacing.
 

Doug62

500RPM
Premium
Dec 28, 2009
829
718
This is going to make it critical for our physics gurus to start getting it right. The suspension models will need to be a lot more accurate then they are now that's for sure.
 

Bram Hengeveld

RaceDepartment Founder
Staff
Premium
Dec 26, 2006
45,421
18,690
44
X-Motor Racing ads already a bunch of visual and physical data in their game when it comes to tires. Really cool


I would know who I would hire if I were ISI :)
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,138
679
So in plain language the tires will have flatspots and accumulated dirt like in netcar pro ?
No :)

My understanding is that the first release of NetKar Pro, which featured flatspots and dirt, used an empirical Pacejka-type tyre model, albeit a sophisticated one. rF2 will ditch the empirical tyre model and move to a physical model.
 

justasimfan

250RPM
Aug 5, 2010
303
9
Is a physical model better than the netkar's Pacejka-type model ? In my mind netkar has the most advanced tire simulation and has the best "feel".Its the only sim that going outside of the tarmac over grass and dirt feels as it should feel and when you go back on track the car feels as it should feel with accumulated dirt over the tires for a while untile the tires "clean themselves" .A simiral tire model would make Rfactor 2 the end of all sims...
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,138
679
Is a physical model better than the netkar's Pacejka-type model ? In my mind netkar has the most advanced tire simulation and has the best "feel".Its the only sim that going outside of the tarmac over grass and dirt feels as it should feel and when you go back on track the car feels as it should feel with accumulated dirt over the tires for a while untile the tires "clean themselves" .A simiral tire model would make Rfactor 2 the end of all sims...
Lets look at the trend in tyre models.

LFS has used a physical model for some time.
Forza 3 has a physical model
NFS Shift has a physical model
iRacing have anounced they are working on a physical model to replace their empirical model
ISI have anounced they are replacing rFactor's empirical model with a physical model
I suspect Codies have a physical model - the tyres sertainly visually deform during cornering like LFS.
I think NetKar Pro moved to a physical model with v1.1

So the trend is very firmly away from empirical models to physical models. That doesn't mean physical models are perfect. LFS has had one improvement to its physical tyre model and another major overhaul is being worked on.

As most sims (and games which some might not consider hardcore sims like Forza 3 and NFS Shift) are moving or have moved to a physical model then the answer would appear to be it is better. However, such models can still be flawed. The early LFS tyres (which use a physical model) seemed wierd to me and were improved in a patch, but even these are still being worked on as they didn't prove realistic when used with the forthcoming VW Sirocco.

You can simulate dirt on a tyre without needing a physical model.

The weakness with rFactor2 as a sim will be its reliance on mods (though the supplied content does look like it will be much better than rF1). It doesn't matter how good the physics engine is, if the modder doesn't understand the physics engine and doesn't have accurate data to use in the physics engine then the results will be flawed.
 

justasimfan

250RPM
Aug 5, 2010
303
9
I understand !
By the way wouldn't a solution for poor mods could be the ability to choose from multiple tire properties ?
For example while creating a car to be able to choose ready tire sets like a slick tire ,a treaded tire and a offroad tire ?
 
J

JSnow585

I drive over dirt in real life and it doesn't effect my cars grip what so ever... The dirt comes of the wheel in roughly 2 seconds. Whats the big deal?
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,138
679
I drive over dirt in real life and it doesn't effect my cars grip what so ever... The dirt comes of the wheel in roughly 2 seconds. Whats the big deal?
Your tyres are not slicks running soft sticky rubber with a tread temperature of 100 degrees C :)