New Logitech Wheel (G923) + Trueforce

[Leonardo Chaves]

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/innovation/trueforce.html

Seems like it's still dual motor gear drive from the illustrations... but some eletronic trickery maybe? New motors? Gear ratios? Will need to see reviews...

Any toughts fellas?

 

[super_gt]

Does anyone know if it's going to have the crappy brake setup (in my opinion) that my G920 has? You know, the one where you have to break your ankle trying to stop it? I was at the point where I was going to remove the component which causes the problem, but I found a new tabletop clamp for my G27 which I'm going to put on it. I would consider this new wheel down the road if it brakes more like my G27 did.

Logitech Reveals G923 Wheel for PlayStation and Xbox

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet: Logitech G Teases New Racing Wheel, Reveal Due August 5 This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on August 4th, 2020 in the Hardware category.

www.gtplanet.net

 

[AccAkut]

Most racing wheels still operate on 20-year-old force feedback technology, where forces and vibrations are created from a selection of profiles and a limited library of haptic effects. Designed to overcome the limitations of early USB technology and single-core CPUs, they were used to approximate the sensations generated from your sim car. This means the carefully calculated physics from the game can be simplified and degraded.

Not TRUEFORCE. We developed high-speed, real-time haptics software technology derived from surgical force-feedback systems—with enough bandwidth to deliver detailed game physics right to your G923. So you feel everything.

Starting you marketing speel by kicking the competiton is pretty bad sport

My G25 pedals lasted for a long time, tho helped by regular maintenance and DXTweak tweaks when the end zones started fluttering. Now on 3DWrap replacement potis and my DIY "Wii Fit" brake

 

[dcully]

 

[Metla]

GamerMuscle nailed it.

 

[RasmusP]

This part is the important bit. It's basically a G29 with a Buttkicker in the rim, end of story

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Well, you might feel differently if you tried to replace the pots - their policy on that is just unforgivable. I know for a fact that they won't sell you a spare for the G25 or G27, and you can't even buy them from anywhere else cos they are proprietary oddball units. I don't know but imagine it's the same for the G29.

I suspect the G29 are the same, but if I have recently been playing around with options to circumvent the wheel (because the brake logic on the G29 is just plain bonkers) and it's actually not expensive/tricky, so if I don't have enough money to upgrade when my time comes, I'll just stick some new ones in and map it in software if required. Might even replace them with hall effect sensors instead as it'll probably be cheaper albeit a bit more hassle to mount

 

[Deleted member 217114]

GamerMuscle nailed it.

Yes, and meanwhile people using he affiliate links or promocodes and he makes money from that, lol. He's definitely right. Something wrong at Logitech. Telling people it's the most realistic thing ever. Just like how Codemasters advertise their games as the most realistic. It's not.

 

[Neilski]

Might even replace them with hall effect sensors instead

I wish somebody would make another Hall sensor upgrade kit for the G2x series. There used to be one but last time I tried to find it, the product seemed to be long gone.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I wish somebody would make another Hall sensor upgrade kit for the G2x series. There used to be one but last time I tried to find it, the product seemed to be long gone.

Something like this? https://tomyracing.com/index.php?language=en&module=productsd&content=pedhallv120

I'm guessing demand was low and it might have a been a pain getting the sensor to exactly replicate the voltage levels of the pot. I'm going to get some sensors and have a play, but I think it should be possible to make a simpler mount and if the wheelbase is bypassed have a greater voltage range than the pot. You like to tinker?

EDIT: I just dismantled my spare clutch. I originally thought the pedal travel was limited by the arm that attaches to the pot, but it appears the bottom of the pedal actually makes contact with the base instead. This should make a replacement a lot simpler. Does the same thing happen on the G27?

 

[Neilski]

Something like this? https://tomyracing.com/index.php?language=en&module=productsd&content=pedhallv120

I'm guessing demand was low and it might have a been a pain getting the sensor to exactly replicate the voltage levels of the pot. I'm going to get some sensors and have a play, but I think it should be possible to make a simpler mount and if the wheelbase is bypassed have a greater voltage range than the pot. You like to tinker?

EDIT: I just dismantled my spare clutch. I originally thought the pedal travel was limited by the arm that attaches to the pot, but it appears the bottom of the pedal actually makes contact with the base instead. This should make a replacement a lot simpler. Does the same thing happen on the G27?

Well, that wasn't the site I was thinking of - I did a bit of searching and found the one I had originally heard of in this RD thread, and it turns out that the thread actually lists two websites, both of which are Spanish (Simulaje and TSS). Rather like tomyracing.com... Hmm, coincidence? The products do look somewhat different though.
I found this link too: https://www.simulaje.com/productos/accesorios/sensor-hall.html

Two out of the three products I've just been eyeballing have the magnet fixed and the Hall sensor moving, which might make some sense from a "minimise the moving mass" point of view but means that the wires can potentially break (confirmed by an owner in the RD thread above).
Feels a wee bit tragic to go to something with basically zero wear like a Hall sensor but then build in a whole new problem by having flexing wires instead.

And yeah, I do like to tinker, but I don't really end up doing a lot of it and I'm definitely not in your league! Tempting to have a go though, for sure.

It's pretty cool that all of the kits appear to work without any "smarts" involved (just a naked sensor). My mental picture of how they would work had always included a bit of custom digital/analog electronics to match up the signal with what the pedals are expecting - like offset & scale, and perhaps something for linearity... But apparently not needed! Perhaps you could do much better with a bit of remapping though.

Anyway, for info: the v1.2 sensor that you linked is indeed discontinued, but Tomy Racing sell a v1.3 now, which appears to be in stock!: https://tomyracing.com/index.php?language=en&module=products&content=pedhallv130
(This is a moving-sensor solution though.)

Just saw your edit. Yes, the G27 sounds identical. It has a little lever on the pots and you can reassemble it all so that the lever touches the base OR is one whole gear-tooth's worth of travel clear of the base when the pedal is released. Honestly don't recall which is the "correct" position but even when assembled so that the lever does reach the base, it's not taking any mechanical strain. This is because it's pushed by a spring in that direction (and lifted off the base by the gears), and after it hits the base the gear teeth don't move far enough beyond that point to push it any further, which is rather a good thing!

 

[RasmusP]

19€ per pedal...
Wow!

I have to say the csl elite 2-pedal kit felt a lot better than the g27 pedals, even with stronger springs and a sponge screwed into the brake pedal
The loadcell design and the price of the loadcell pedal though.. Let's not talk about it. It annoyed me so heavily that I splashed out for v3s last month.

But if you don't need a clutch pedal, the 2 spring/sponge pedal kit is awesome and below 100€!
Throttle has long way of travel, a lot better control than the g27 throw.
Brake has longer throw too and the sponge feels pretty great.

Only problem is the needed USB adapter that costs 25€ or something and makes the 2 pedals too expensive (the USB adapter is included with the loadcell pedal btw so money would be wasted if one buys the loadcell later on...).

Probably better to just buy a csl elite wheel together with it, lol

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Two out of the three products I've just been eyeballing have the magnet fixed and the Hall sensor moving, which might make some sense from a "minimise the moving mass" point of view but means that the wires can potentially break (confirmed by an owner in the RD thread above).
Feels a wee bit tragic to go to something with basically zero wear like a Hall sensor but then build in a whole new problem by having flexing wires instead.

Yeah, I agree, it seems more reliable to move the magnet/s, especially since the pedal appears to made out of steel so you can just place them directly on the pedal. I'd probably just make a template to get them in the right place.

It's pretty cool that all of the kits appear to work without any "smarts" involved (just a naked sensor). My mental picture of how they would work had always included a bit of custom digital/analog electronics to match up the signal with what the pedals are expecting - like offset & scale, and perhaps something for linearity... But apparently not needed! Perhaps you could do much better with a bit of remapping though.

The tomyracing ones seem to need the USB adapter, so I suspect they are not kicking out the same voltage range as the pots (or they might not even be inverted). At any rate, I'm not enamoured by the limited voltage range of the pots and if going to all this effort would rather try and get as much range out of the sensor as possible. Have taken a look at the datasheets for a few and it doesn't look like you need any smarts - they just kick out a voltage depending on the magenetic flux. They recommend a decoupling cap, but that seems to be all.

19€ per pedal...
Wow!

Yeah, a DRV5053 is pence and there are plenty of low profile magnets on amazon for cheap too.... I'm also using a cheap-ass arduino nano which you can pickup for around £5-6 to act as the USB HID.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

well, since this thread got royally hijacked, I thought I'd just sign off with my findings from last night and say that the DRV5053 doesn't look like a great replacement for a pot since it's voltage range is only about 1.8v, but I found the A1326 which is about 4.4v (when Vcc is 5v), so that looks a better option and it's still pretty cheap https://docs.rs-online.com/958c/0900766b813d193a.pdf - in fact, because the range is so large, you might actually be able to use it as a pot replacement on the G27 and still use the wheelbase. For the G29 you'd need the 3.3v model