Mr Muntargs wind sim and tactile immersion rig

[Mr Muntarg]

So to start my fairly modest setup
Fanatec clubsport 2.5 base
Fanatec clubsport v3 pedals
Fanatec formula v2 wheel
Fanatec BMW gt wheel
Heusinkveld sequential shifter
Button box
Amazon fire tablet as timing board
RTX 3070 based pc
Oculus rift S VR headset

Frame is custom made from stainless steel tubing . Made by myself

 

[Mr Muntarg]

My immediate plans for the future are an arduino based wind simulator and a tactile immersion system. Both will be based on simhub software

Wind sim
I've followed Boosted Media you tube video its a fairly straight forward build.
I've got the 3d printer running 24 hours a day making the various bits i need , along with the bit arriving from amazon i nearly have everything to assemble it

Tactile Immersion
For this ill be trying to follow the tried and tested route that Mr Latte along with a few others are working on. My knowledge of the software and hardware side is pretty minimal but i'm hoping to learn . I do have a lot of real world track experience , so hopefully i can offer something constructive along the way

Just collecting together parts at the moment, but hope to have the rig back at my work by the end of the week to begin .

On order

nx3000d
Buttkicker LFE
Dayton audio BST-1
Dayton audio DAEX32EP-4 exciter
7.1 startech usb sound card

Still to order

3 more Dayton audio DAEX32EP-4 exciter
an amp for the exciters (Behringer EPQ 304)

Unfortunately i'm struggling to find the amp and remaining exciters in stock so i may have to wait for them

Also plan to replace the BST-1 with a second LFE when money allows , The BST-1 is just already here and doing nothing

Longer term plans
DD1 wheel base
Hp reverb g2 once i'm convinced the rev2 cable has solved connection issues

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Remember to isolate the seat from the chassis, Im assuming you will attach those shakers to your seat.

 

[blekenbleu]

struggling to find the amp and remaining exciters

Dayton exciters are undemanding amplifier loads.
Yard sale pre-HDMI surround receivers with 50+ watts per channel and discrete 5.1 or 7.1 input can often be had for less than $100.
I have had particularly good luck with (3) old Denons;
their volume controls seem exceptionally resistant to developing noisy operation.

 

[Mr Muntarg]

Remember to isolate the seat from the chassis, Im assuming you will attach those shakers to your seat.

I've ordered these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224001245164 for the pedals and seat to begin with. I have an idea to use some anti roll bar bushes i have here to make something , But it'll take me a little time to machine all the brackets to try that out

Dayton exciters are undemanding amplifier loads.
Yard sale pre-HDMI surround receivers with 50+ watts per channel and discrete 5.1 or 7.1 input can often be had for less than $100.
I have had particularly good luck with (3) old Denons;
their volume controls seem exceptionally resistant to developing noisy operation.

I've ordered the amp now but its going to be 6-8 weeks so hopefully the exciters come back by then

 

[Mr Muntarg]

Here's what I have in mind for isolation . These are just some powerflex bushes i had left over from my rx7 build

 

[stigs2cousin]

Here's what I have in mind for isolation . These are just some powerflex bushes i had left over from my rx7 build

View attachment 501352
View attachment 501350View attachment 501351

Thats an interesting idea and should take the brake forces quite well so that the seat doesn´t move.

I´m not so shure about the isolation part though.

When I replaced some rubber bushings in my GT86 suspension with PU and added PU inserts to the differential bushings noise and vibrations increased quite a bit.

It would probably be better to do this kind of mount with (OEM) rubber bushings which are optimized for NVH, though for different loads (and maybe frequency?)

MFG Carsten

 

[Mr Muntarg]

Thats an interesting idea and should take the brake forces quite well so that the seat doesn´t move.

I´m not so shure about the isolation part though.

When I replaced some rubber bushings in my GT86 suspension with PU and added PU inserts to the differential bushings noise and vibrations increased quite a bit.

It would probably be better to do this kind of mount with (OEM) rubber bushings which are optimized for NVH, though for different loads (and maybe frequency?)

MFG Carsten

Firstly love a gt86
Yeh i think you could well be right . Getting stock rx7 ones mite be a pain though . Just had a look, these Mg sprite ones are cheap and you can also by the strap that goes over the top cheaply too.

MGB, MGB-GT, MIDGET, SPRITE FRONT ANTI-ROLL BAR MOUNTING BUSHES x 2 AHH6541 | eBay

MGB, MGB-GT ; YEARS 1962-198 0. AUSTIN HEALEY SPRITE MkI, II & III ; YEARS 1961-1966. MG MIDGET MkI, II, III & 1500 ; YEARS 1961-1979. These bushes are suppliedNEW and for reference, have the Part No.AHH6541.

www.ebay.co.uk

Classic MG B Sprite Front Anti Roll Bar Middle Strap Retainer Pair BHH2000 x2 | eBay

PART NUMBER: BHH2000 x2. Part Number: BHH2000 x2. Here we have a Pair of TWO Front Anti Roll Bar Middle Strap Retainers. MGB (REAR) 76-80.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[stigs2cousin]

Now you've done it.
I've been thinking about rubber/metal bushings the whole day.
I think I'll experiment with control arm bushings to achieve isolation without excessive movement.

The can be had cheaply and with different shore hardnesses, some even have cutouts for different hardness in different directions.
So it could be harder in direction of the brake forces and softer for the
bass shakers.

Only problem will be to fabricate a mount for the outer circumference.


MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

I think I'll experiment with control arm bushings to achieve isolation without excessive movement.

Most auto bushings may be too stiff and massive; perhaps instead custom 3D printing with rubber-like resin or 3D print a mold for silicone rubber.

 

[Mr Muntarg]

Now you've done it.
I've been thinking about rubber/metal bushings the whole day.
I think I'll experiment with control arm bushings to achieve isolation without excessive movement.

The can be had cheaply and with different shore hardnesses, some even have cutouts for different hardness in different directions.
So it could be harder in direction of the brake forces and softer for the
bass shakers.

Only problem will be to fabricate a mount for the outer circumference.


MFG Carsten

I've got a a good selection of cnc machines here , that mite be something i can help you with

Most auto bushings may be too stiff and massive; perhaps instead custom 3D printing with rubber-like resin or 3D print a mold for silicone rubber.

I've got this filamant for our 3d printer . Yet to try it as i suspect its going to be a bit of a pain to print , but its another option if the auto bushings are to stiff .

Technology Outlet Premium TPU Flex 90A Filament 1.75mm 800G

Technology Outlet TPU Flex 90A is a filament designed for 3D printing, which enables you to manufacture flexible items in a much simpler way than with other materials of this type. The appropriate composition of the material provides for good adhesion both between layers and between the printed...

technologyoutlet.co.uk

 

[stigs2cousin]

I've got a a good selection of cnc machines here , that mite be something i can help you with

Thank you for your kind offer, much appreciated.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Most auto bushings may be too stiff and massive; perhaps instead custom 3D printing with rubber-like resin or 3D print a mold for silicone rubber.

You may have a point here, quick research revealed that suspension bushings can vary from 60to 95 Shore or more depending on the material properties, not o speak of design.
( how big the voids are and how they are arranged)

Source:

Durometer and Suspension Bushings | Suspension.com

Durometer is the tool used to measure the hardness of a material, this is known as Shore Hardness, however, the term durometer often refers to shore hardness.

www.suspension.com

That is not to mention that I´ve found no data on the materials of common bushings and have no practical way to get my hands on some to "fondle" and measure them.

That got me thinking ( again ) and I devised a practical device to test the properties of different materials directly on the simulator.

I´ll do a home improvement store run now and get the parts for the mounts and the first "test batch"

This could take a while, the highways and mayor roads are still out from the flood in July.

I´ll report back Carsten

( By the way, @Mr Muntarg , do you want to keep this discussion in your build thread or should we outsource it to something like "tactile isolation DIY"?)

 

[Mr Muntarg]

You may have a point here, quick research revealed that suspension bushings can vary from 60to 95 Shore or more depending on the material properties, not o speak of design.
( how big the voids are and how they are arranged)

Source:

Durometer and Suspension Bushings | Suspension.com

Durometer is the tool used to measure the hardness of a material, this is known as Shore Hardness, however, the term durometer often refers to shore hardness.

www.suspension.com

That is not to mention that I´ve found no data on the materials of common bushings and have no practical way to get my hands on some to "fondle" and measure them.

That got me thinking ( again ) and I devised a practical device to test the properties of different materials directly on the simulator.

I´ll do a home improvement store run now and get the parts for the mounts and the first "test batch"

This could take a while, the highways and mayor roads are still out from the flood in July.

I´ll report back Carsten

( By the way, @Mr Muntarg , do you want to keep this discussion in your build thread or should we outsource it to something like "tactile isolation DIY"?)

I'm happy for it to remain here , as i started it and want to contribute. I do suspect whatever we end up with is a big compromise on both front

 

[blekenbleu]

I do suspect whatever we end up with is a big compromise on both front

What may be nearly ideal:

• to resist vertical loads, coils springs which store but do not appreciably damp tactile energy
• in parallel with springs, asymmetric bushings which damp vertical vibrations but resist lateral displacement.
  • 

Springs could be coaxial with bushings...

 

[Mr Muntarg]

What may be nearly ideal:

• to resist vertical loads, coils springs which store but do not appreciably damp tactile energy
• in parallel with springs, asymmetric bushings which damp vertical vibrations but resist lateral displacement.
  • 

Springs could be coaxial with bushings...

Hopefully I'm not miss-undertanding you here , but essentially your supporting on both spring and a rubber bush . My only thought with this is that as soon as the spring even depresses a small amount, the load is taken by the bush , unless you apply a large amount of preload to the spring, i think it may then loose a lot of its isolating ability.
What about just the bush you posted above turned on its side ?

 

[blekenbleu]

. My only thought with this is that as soon as the spring even depresses a small amount, the load is taken by the bush , unless you apply a large amount of preload to the spring,

Equivalently, threaded rods in bushes' center holes adjusted for least bush distortion when springs are loaded.

What about just the bush you posted above turned on its side ?

Bushes like these are designed to deflect (and damp) mostly in their current vertical orientation.
Bushes can be designed for torsional damping; these are not.
Bushes similar to these could be designed with voids in rubber, as described by @stigs2cousin,
which would allow increased lateral deflections in some directions,
but lateral deflections are unwanted for seat and pedal tray isolation,
since that compromises e.g. brake pedal forces and feel.

Perhaps these 12 to 60 lb platemounts could be used without extra springs:

 

[LeeHetherington]

Surely both pedal trays and seats will see significant vertical deflections too due to leverage. We are not pushing in the same plane as the bushings.

 

[blekenbleu]

We are not pushing in the same plane as the bushings.

Ideally, platemounts would be tilted off horizontal.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Surely both pedal trays and seats will see significant vertical deflections too due to leverage. We are not pushing in the same plane as the bushings.

That´s right, my bushings at the pedal carrier see more a push/pull load because of the mounting points being both between my heels and my butt. (DIY profile rig)

So the mounting points near my heels gets pushed down, the one towards my knees gets pulled up.

My first itertation of DIY isolators consists of two aluminium strips with three layers rubber mat sandwhiched in between.

Two 10mm mats for the isolation, a layer 6mm mat to keep the M8 bolt centered between the layers.
all held together by double sided tape for ease of assembly and drilled through for M6 bolts.
These mount to the pedal carrier and add preload. I´ve made pictures:

Parts pre assembly:

Mounted:

A big plus is that adjustment of the pedals is much easyier than with the last design.

First trials are a mixed bag:

it works better than the rigidly mounted pedal carrier, but the Dayton Audio BST-2 is to weak to work the whole assembly ( the heelplate is now rigidly mounted to the carrier, the "isolation" of the "bobbins" didn´t do much at all.)

Well, if some friendly spirit would gift me a Buttkicker Mini LFE for under my seat the Aurasound AST2-B4 could migrate to the front of the rig.

MFG Carsten