Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[RCHeliguy]

Here is the 3D printed part with threaded inserts already melted into place.
I used 2 inserts and 2 locknuts to bolt the collective stick to the mount.
Then two M8 knobs into t-nuts to hold it in place.

It also braces against the vertical slot.

The knobs could be a bit shorter, but this works.

And of course a bolt fixed to the frame to make sure that I get identical placement every time I bolt it up.

Virpil Collective Stick 40 series profile mount by RCHeliGuy

This is a mount for the Virpil collective stick to the side frame of a profile rig. It uses two M8 knobs to hold the 3D printed part to the rig. It uses two M5 bolts into locknuts and two M5 bolts into threaded inserts.

www.thingiverse.com

 

[RCHeliguy]

Could I make it through 2023 without making any upgrades to my rig and just use it?

Umm sure... I can stop any time I want.

 

[LeeHetherington]

Until January 2, 2023?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Until January 2, 2023?

If I was recovering from a serious hangover on January 1st.

Edit: You were probably factoring that in.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I went back and forth between my Index and G2 today repeatedly to decide if I wanted to keep it and I decided it needs to go. This came to a head because I had someone ask me if I was going to sell it. So I decided to make absolutely sure that I couldn't make it work for me.

With the FrankenFOV facial interface I found the G2 comfortable and the in focus area large enough to be enjoyable and the visuals are excellent. My 4090 drives it well.

On top of that, while I was in Dirt Rally today, I didn't experience the tracking issue where it popped me sideways and I adjusted the graphics settings so that I couldn't perceive any lag. So the D-Box and tactile and visuals appeared to be in sync.

So far so good, but the G2 is deficient in some way where the Index is strong. Either the tracking is just not quite right, or the stereo overlap isn't right, or the FOV is too constricting, but there is something missing that is throwing me off a LOT.

When I'm running Dirt Rally 2.0 at 90 fps with the Index I feel like I'm connected to the car and I'm really there in the car. There is no gap to bridge. The feeling of being one with the car is just apparent.

With the G2 I feel like I'm looking at a pretty picture from inside the car. It doesn't appear out of sync, but I don't feel connected to the experience.

I hate to say it, but this makes me dig my heels into the ground even harder to wait for the next Index. I don't know exactly what their secret sauce is, but it works really well.

The fact that I felt less connected had an impact on my driving as well. I was slower in the G2. On the same Dirt Rally course, I would flip back and forth and I was faster every time in the Index. Not only that but it felt more excited while driving with the Index because I felt like I was there and not just a spectator. It was much more visceral.

It is the weirdest thing admiring the pretty view of the G2 and liking the view, but not feeling connected to it. I wish I knew exactly where this difference was coming from. I'm going to guess that it's depth perception related and has something to do with the stereo overlap, but it is a striking and consistent difference when A/B'ing them within minutes of each other.

 

[RedBull48]

I went back and forth between my Index and G2 today repeatedly to decide if I wanted to keep it and I decided it needs to go. This came to a head because I had someone ask me if I was going to sell it. So I decided to make absolutely sure that I couldn't make it work for me.

With the FrankenFOV facial interface I found the G2 comfortable and the in focus area large enough to be enjoyable and the visuals are excellent. My 4090 drives it well.

On top of that, while I was in Dirt Rally today, I didn't experience the tracking issue where it popped me sideways and I adjusted the graphics settings so that I couldn't perceive any lag. So the D-Box and tactile and visuals appeared to be in sync.

So far so good, but the G2 is deficient in some way where the Index is strong. Either the tracking is just not quite right, or the stereo overlap isn't right, or the FOV is too constricting, but there is something missing that is throwing me off a LOT.

When I'm running Dirt Rally 2.0 at 90 fps with the Index I feel like I'm connected to the car and I'm really there in the car. There is no gap to bridge. The feeling of being one with the car is just apparent.

With the G2 I feel like I'm looking at a pretty picture from inside the car. It doesn't appear out of sync, but I don't feel connected to the experience.

I hate to say it, but this makes me dig my heels into the ground even harder to wait for the next Index. I don't know exactly what their secret sauce is, but it works really well.

The fact that I felt less connected had an impact on my driving as well. I was slower in the G2. On the same Dirt Rally course, I would flip back and forth and I was faster every time in the Index. Not only that but it felt more excited while driving with the Index because I felt like I was there and not just a spectator. It was much more visceral.

It is the weirdest thing admiring the pretty view of the G2 and liking the view, but not feeling connected to it. I wish I knew exactly where this difference was coming from. I'm going to guess that it's depth perception related and has something to do with the stereo overlap, but it is a striking and consistent difference when A/B'ing them within minutes of each other.

I have found myself in a love / hate relationship with my G2. I've never used an index, only a Rift s in the past. I am looking forward to the index 2 release when the time comes. Out of curiosity I wonder if you experience the jarring head stutter when there are small deviations in frame rate.

I am only running a 3080ti and I mostly play F1 22 with it. I can get my settings to a point where I can hold 88-89 fps pretty consistently. Unfortunately when you drive by grandstands the fps will dip to 83-85 range. While this doesn't seem like a hugely significant fluctuation it results in very jerky tracking with even the slightest head movement. Do you experience anything similar to this?

 

[RCHeliguy]

I have found myself in a love / hate relationship with my G2. I've never used an index, only a Rift s in the past. I am looking forward to the index 2 release when the time comes. Out of curiosity I wonder if you experience the jarring head stutter when there are small deviations in frame rate.

I am only running a 3080ti and I mostly play F1 22 with it. I can get my settings to a point where I can hold 88-89 fps pretty consistently. Unfortunately when you drive by grandstands the fps will dip to 83-85 range. While this doesn't seem like a hugely significant fluctuation it results in very jerky tracking with even the slightest head movement. Do you experience anything similar to this?

I've been in a tender loving relationship with my Valve Index from the beginning. If it had more resolution, I wouldn't even be looking at new headsets. But the resolution it has isn't bad. Yes, you can see the pixels, but I tend to look past that the moment things start moving.

With a 4090 I'm not seeing much in the way of reprojection or frame rate drops. I see 89-90 fps pretty much all the time with the G2.

 

[RedBull48]

I've been in a tender loving relationship with my Valve Index from the beginning. If it had more resolution, I wouldn't even be looking at new headsets. But the resolution it has isn't bad. Yes, you can see the pixels, but I tend to look past that the moment things start moving.

With a 4090 I'm not seeing much in the way of reprojection or frame rate drops. I see 89-90 fps pretty much all the time with the G2.

Maybe I will find more enjoyment if I can get my hands on a 4090. Unfortunately that is proving to be a bit of a lottery with damn scalpers ruining things for honest buyers.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Maybe I will find more enjoyment if I can get my hands on a 4090. Unfortunately that is proving to be a bit of a lottery with damn scalpers ruining things for honest buyers.

Sorry, I had a weak moment.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I just can't leave my Collective stick alone.

This is a combination Cable support AND counterbalance for the collective stick so that it will stay in place if I take my hand off of it. It will hold my extra 500gram weight.

This does not completely balance the collective stick, but it requires less stick tension to hold in place with my hand off the stick. Currently if I increase the friction to the point where it holds the stick in place the motion isn't smooth and it noticeably sticks when I first start to move it. This will fix that.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Definitely a draft print.

1. The stick holds position beautifully with the counter weight.

2. Cable Support was off and needed to be moved to the top 8mm and 6.5mm taller to reach the wire well.

3. The bottom rear of the counterbalance was touching the D-Box Actuator and the cylinder holding the 500g weight was too tall so I shallowed it up a bunch. ( pulled the weight up to even for the pictures to show how it is supposed to look.

Also had a head crash while printing with the textured plate because the PLA pulled up, so I printed this with the smooth plate.

I'll redesign and see if I can get a decent textured plate print next still with green.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Virpil Collective Stick Counter Weight by RCHeliGuy

This is a combination collective counterweight and cable strain relief. It uses the 500g weight from this pack.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IP7G3ZK 2 x M4x16 socket head bolts attach it to the side of the Collective. 2 x M3x12 bevel head bolts hold the cable strain relief in place. 2 x...

www.thingiverse.com

Pressed in a couple threaded inserts.

The cable alignment is perfect now.

The counter balance is working well holding the stick in place with only mild friction so it feels smooth.

At full collective pitch the weight still has a gap to the D-Box actuator.

The cable now has strain support, so the internal soldering isn't under a load.

Got the Galaxy Black version printing now on the textured plate. Freshly cleaned plate, careful thin application of glue stick and a wide brim to hold it flat. First few layers look to be holding flat.

 

[MarkModdy]

very nice indeed... your ideas are very inspiring, i am making regular little tweaks to my rig following your ethos.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Been thinking about immersion vs. useful information that you can use to help you drive better.

I have stated before that I really like my HE Ultimate+ pedals. I believe part of that is just having them setup properly on my rig and realizing that my Sprints for all my efforts were not set up properly. The Ultimate+ pedals feel very comfortable and easy to modulate and other than slightly reducing the clutch travel, I left them exactly as they came out of the box from the factory.

Shortly after getting the Ultimate+ pedals I also moved from a NLRv3 to a D-Box Gen5 and in the process, a LOT of other things changed.

I installed a seat slider which I haven't had in long time and my seat is a little lower, so it's possible that I'm in a slightly better position relative to my wheel now.

With a seat mover out of the picture, the seat and pedals are no longer moving relative to each other which adds a feeling of solidity.

That was a lot of change in a short period of time which makes it very hard to assign praise or blame.

I think the NLRv3 added a lot of immersion and dramatically helped with nausea in VR, but I think it worked in a number of ways to my detriment in terms of driving performance.

In a nutshell I am driving faster than I was before. I know I felt faster just adding the Ultimate+ pedals. I think having a static seat to pedal mount and sliding seat for easy positioning has helped some as well. I'm not sure if the D-Box is helping, but I feel like it is at least neutral and obviously adds a lot of sensation that I enjoy.

I think for most sensations that having enough to feel, but not being over the top helps to give you more information without disruption.

Likewise with VR I believe I found that having very good depth of field actually gives you more useful information. Looking into a corner with high a higher resolution headset does look very good, but if you can't judge distance as well and anticipate corners as well at least in Rally games that can make a very big difference. I'm not sure how much that correlates on the track. I suspect that it is less of an issue.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The Galaxy Black matches the aesthetic of my rig better.

SendCutSend shipped my laser cut parts that should arrive tomorrow

Once I've finished those parts, it's time to stop making changes to my rig and see if I can get a head start on not updating my rig for a while.

 

[metalnwood]

I love all the stuff I have on my rig and while some aliens can prove that you can be the fastest on the cheapest of gear I think for the rest of us better gear will help us to some extent get faster.

Once you are at any level of speed I think you can replicate it on other equipment with brake consistency being the hardest part to get right on very low end gear.

For the immersion, I would keep everything I have but I don't think if I went to a rig costing 1/4 the price anything would change on track - for instance if I use someone elses rig, mostly I am screwed up by the brakes for 10 mins then I am fine and just as fast.

The best aide I have used is just turning up the tire sounds in game, tactile effects are nice but never give me cues I would rely on.

The largest one that holds people back which equipment plays no role in is that so many people just dont drive well. They dont know the fastest racing lines, the dont use all of the track, they drive by feel for braking points and don't visualise sections of track properly to hit the harder apex's.

So my summary, is that I love, love the immersion but I dont think the gear contributes much to speed.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Many good points.

Equipment is no substitute for racecraft!

I've read enough on the subject to understand that there is plenty of mental discipline and plenty to learn before racing well feel even remotely natural.

 

[MarkModdy]

But ergonomics, ease of use, and general making stuff not flopping about on your rig makes it more enjoyable to use more often, and so to become faster!

The more you practice and race the better… and to be able to ensure muscle memory has the same, replicable positions etc as a foundation help greatly too…

I say this as the ‘captain slow’ of sim racing so what do I know!

 

[RCHeliguy]

There are things that I think absolutely do matter.

Ergonomics and setup is huge.

This is what I built for flight 5 years ago and it worked extremely well. I spent 300+ hours playing Eve Valkyrie with my Rift CV1 in this setup over a few months. It was absolutely comfortable built out of mostly scrap wood and a $40 seat out of a wrecked car.

That was a <$100 total for the seat, wood, fasteners, etc and not only did it work, but I had a BLAST using it! That is what initially sucked me in.

1. Slide the seat fore/aft and up / down in relation to the pedals.
2. Adjust the stick for/aft and up/down after that.
3. Slide the throttle fore/aft to where you arm falls.

The kicker is that I've only just recently gotten the flight side of my rig to be as comfortable as what I had 5 years ago. The flight side of rig has seen little use because of that. I've been iterating and iterating trying to get it where I could spend time in it comfortably.

By comparison the driving side of my rig back then was pretty crappy and it did interfere with my enjoyment. There was no solid frame. The h pattern stick mount would move.

I have spent a lot of time and money to improve the immersion of my system and to make things feel "right" to me. If I spent a fraction of that time working on my race skills I would be a much better driver.

I think most people have an understanding of the hierarchy of what does make a difference and then a whole lot of things that are just cool or feel good but don't really matter.

My comments about my times improving were likely due to better control setup rather then a costly upgrade and about replacing something that added immersion but actually interfered with driving with something that added immersion, but didn't have a driving penalty.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Boxing up my G2 so it can be someone else's new toy!
Hopefully they will enjoy it.