Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[blekenbleu]

The answer to chaffing with the G-Belt is simply to wear a polo with a collar!

A collar is one answer. Shoulder straps close to the neck are wanted in real life
to avoid the upper torso slipping between those straps in a crash, perhaps breaking a collar bone.
For sim racing, 2 inch straps an inch further from either side of the neck are comfortable in a T shirt.

downshifting can unsettle the chassis

This wants e.g. a custom SimHub ShakeIt effect for which magnitude derives from abruptness of engine rpm changes AKA clumsy shifts.

 

[anton_Chez]

Any idea how to generate that effect? I’ve got something similar for revs on downshifts, not sure if there is anything more you can do to enhance the feelings coming through the chassis or rear wheels.

 

[blekenbleu]

Any idea how to generate that effect?

Create a SimHub ShakeIt JavaScript custom effect for
changes in the GameData.Rpms property,
applying a (single pole recursive) high pass filter
and thresholding those abrupt rpm changes.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FYI, I've ordered a couple turtle neck tee shirts to see how they feel. We'll see.

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NDJ91JT/

 

[RCHeliguy]

Create a SimHub ShakeIt JavaScript custom effect for
changes in the GameData.Rpms property,
applying a (single pole recursive) high pass filter
and thresholding those abrupt rpm changes.

Care to show some screen shots of what you've set up?
I assume it's based on abrupt rpm changes mostly on the downshift when the rpm suddenly drops because of bad rpm matching.

 

[anton_Chez]

I think the revs would spike if you're clumsy with the shifts. Generally I always downshift too quickly as opposed to slowly. This is causing engine braking (loss of speed) and also wear and tear (possible engine failures in longer races, I've done this a few times). So you'd really feel a surge of revs hitting the limiter in this effect. This code business does my head in though and I just forget about even trying it if it's not something that's able to be tuned with hz values and sliders. Even then I get paralysed by all the options.

 

[blekenbleu]

forget about even trying it if it's not something that's able to be tuned with hz values and sliders

SimHub ShakeIt custom effects, as with other provided effects,
support tuning tactile amplitudes and frequencies.
Different frequency tunings are almost certainly wanted
e.g. between my exciters and your BK Mini LFEs.

For some tactile outputs, custom effects are cascaded,
with output of one effect imported as a property by another,
allowing intermediate signals for physics of interest to be tuned.
For example, some numeric rpm change at lower revs may want different handling
than the same rpm delta at higher revs,
with abrupt changes to rpm values above redline wanting special treatment.

Care to show some screen shots of what you've set up?

I seriously aggravated a herniated lumbar disc several weeks ago,
before completing pedal installation in my T-slot extrusion wheel stand,
and am as yet unable to drive and record an appropriate session.
If someone posts a SimHub game replay with an interesting variety of shifts,
I will attempt to code and tune a custom effect for shift signals based on rpm changes in it.

 

[blekenbleu]

mostly on the downshift

So-called "power shifts" (rapid upshifts without clutch pedal depression,
ideally synchronized with rapid throttle manipulation)
are also candidates for clumsy shift tactile feedback.

 

[RCHeliguy]

OK, sounds like I'll need to look at the SimHub API for myself. I've written 10's of thousands of lines of JS code. Not my favorite language for anything substantial, but good for small things. Although one time I had to write a web app that had 8,000 lines of JS. Yuk! Using prototyping, JSLint and other tools, JS is still no substitute for a better object oriented language.

In happy news, I continue to tighten my seatbelt I'm down 18 lbs and just one pound away from the 170's! I'm pretty excited about that. My wife is still happy that my snoring stopped and I feel much better.

 

[NeoGrotesk]

OK, sounds like I'll need to look at the SimHub API for myself. I've written 10's of thousands of lines of JS code. Not my favorite language for anything substantial, but good for small things. Although one time I had to write a web app that had 8,000 lines of JS. Yuk! Using prototyping, JSLint and other tools, JS is still no substitute for a better object oriented language.

In happy news, I continue to tighten my seatbelt I'm down 18 lbs and just one pound away from the 170's! I'm pretty excited about that. My wife is still happy that my snoring stopped and I feel much better.

That's very impressive, well done!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Decided to go in a little deeper into tactile.

I found a place where I can side mount a transducer vertically on the right front of my seat where it would be solid with the side brackets. This is a non-destructive mounting solution that will require a piece of 40x40 profile bolted to the side bracket and a corner brace on top of that to bolt the transducer to. I've got the offsets measured to account for seat motion.

A Clark Synthesis TST329 Gold should arrive next week. This will be the most expensive transducer I've got to date. It has both twice the power and twice the cost of the Silver model, but I wanted to give this idea a chance. Lord knows I've been told I should try this pairing for a while now.

There is also an even more powerful TST429 Platinum that is twice again as powerful, but it has to be mounted horizontally.

The BK CT is a bruiser! It has all the power I could ask for and I like what it does. The TST329 will go a low as 10Hz but also up to 800 Hz. The CT starts loosing power fast past 40-50 Hz. The TST has a lot of power in the upper frequencies, so I'm thinking I may use it for a couple effects. I'm very curious what this new transducer will be able to do with engine rpm and if my CT will work better doing other things after it is relieved of a couple effects.

 

[anton_Chez]

From the specs I've read, the Gold and Plat are nowhere near double the power. The Silver is 100 continuous, the Gold and Plat are 135W continuous. The differences I see are the lower hz range and the slight bump in power. That's on paper, they may actually be far superior in actual usage and feedback compared side by side. But honestly on paper there is very little difference. Like the BK Mini LFE is listed as 2lbs something, max 250W and the Concert is 11lbs and max 1000W! That's a tangible difference and you'd expect the models to operate far differently. I didn't get that comparing the TST models, but the prices rise substantially model over model.

 

[RCHeliguy]

From the specs I've read, the Gold and Plat are nowhere near double the power. The Silver is 100 continuous, the Gold and Plat are 135W continuous. The differences I see are the lower hz range and the slight bump in power. That's on paper, they may actually be far superior in actual usage and feedback compared side by side. But honestly on paper there is very little difference. Like the BK Mini LFE is listed as 2lbs something, max 250W and the Concert is 11lbs and max 1000W! That's a tangible difference and you'd expect the models to operate far differently. I didn't get that comparing the TST models, but the prices rise substantially model over model.

This isn't all about Watts in. It's also based on efficiency. The Clark Synthesis people claim the Silver is 50% more powerful than the one I tried last and it uses identical power to the Silver. The design is different and the Gold is heavier. The Platinum increased diameter to 10" and is heavier still.

 

[RCHeliguy]

This turtleneck tee arrived today and it works well in terms of protecting my neck and breathing. It feels pretty good with the shoulder harness belts. It fits pretty well. The only weird thing about it is that it's perfectly symmetrical front to back. There is no tag which is a plus for comfort or any print or means of determining a front or back to it.

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[HoiHman]

Decided to go in a little deeper into tactile.

I found a place where I can side mount a transducer vertically on the right front of my seat where it would be solid with the side brackets. This is a non-destructive mounting solution that will require a piece of 40x40 profile bolted to the side bracket and a corner brace on top of that to bolt the transducer to. I've got the offsets measured to account for seat motion.

A Clark Synthesis TST329 Gold should arrive next week. This will be the most expensive transducer I've got to date. It has both twice the power and twice the cost of the Silver model, but I wanted to give this idea a chance. Lord knows I've been told I should try this pairing for a while now.

There is also an even more powerful TST429 Platinum that is twice again as powerful, but it has to be mounted horizontally.

The BK CT is a bruiser! It has all the power I could ask for and I like what it does. The TST329 will go a low as 10Hz but also up to 800 Hz. The CT starts loosing power fast past 40-50 Hz. The TST has a lot of power in the upper frequencies, so I'm thinking I may use it for a couple effects. I'm very curious what this new transducer will be able to do with engine rpm and if my CT will work better doing other things after it is relieved of a couple effects

Looking forward to your opinion of the TST329.

I have eye on one of those for more than a year now for maybe boosting the RPM effects, but they are very difficult find here.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Looking forward to your opinion of the TST329.

I have eye on one of those for more than a year now for maybe boosting the RPM effects, but they are very difficult find here.

It arrives tomorrow and I've already figured out how to mount it. I'm hoping that being able to operate from 10-800Hz will make it excellent for engine rpm in an immersive but not overpowering way.

I suspect I'll be experimenting a bit flipping effects between the transducers to see how they feel. If I like it and I think it is powerful enough, I may consider replacing the two Aura's under my foot plate with a single centered Clark Synthesis. That would keep me to 4 channels which would mean I wouldn't need another amplifier and additional cabling to my rig. But I'm open to going that route if need be.

 

[RCHeliguy]

When I got my Behringer NX4-6000 I knew it did not have DSP functionality, but the price was right and it is powerful enough to drive my BK Concert all the way.

Every transducer has it's own sweet spot or frequencies it creates the most power. This is impacted by where it is mounted on your rig. This new TST329 runs at higher frequencies than my other transducers.

As I start this multi transducer tactile experiment I want control over what frequencies get to my transducers and I'm using two open source programs to apply filters to the signals driving them.

The first program does the work but has a text interface. It inserts itself into the audio chain on your computer and applies filters to the sound signal. Each time the settings are changed you need to reboot your computer for the changes to take effect. And you may have to reinstall it after applying a windows update. In addition it isn't currently compatible with Windows 11.

Equalizer APO

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The second program is a graphical front end that allows you to see the filter you are creating. You can not hear the changes in real time.

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO

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What you end up with looks like this.

This is my first attempt and I'm starting by only filtering out the area outside of the normal range.

@Mr Latte Please feel free to jump in

Device: Realtek(R) Audio Speakers {eaa789ab-cf6e-4f05-9d70-259f6de71f4b}


Channel: L R - These are my two front Aurasound AST-2B-4 Pro

Preamp: -5 dB
Filter 1: ON HPQ Fc 10 Hz Q 1.41
Filter 2: ON HPQ Fc 21 Hz Q 1.41
Filter 3: ON LPQ Fc 50 Hz Q 1.41
Filter 4: ON LPQ Fc 83 Hz Q 1.41

Channel: RL - This is my new Clark Synthesis TST329 Gold
Preamp: -7 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 9 Hz Gain 6.5 dB Q 1
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 21 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 1
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 42 Hz Gain 4.5 dB Q 1.41
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 83 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 1
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 166 Hz Gain 4.5 dB Q 1
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 333 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 1.41
Filter 8: ON LPQ Fc 800 Hz Q 1.41
Filter 9: ON LPQ Fc 1000 Hz Q 1.41

Channel: RR - This is my Buttkicker Concert
Channel: RR
Preamp: -5 dB
Filter 1: ON HPQ Fc 12 Hz Q 1.41
Filter 3: ON LPQ Fc 50 Hz Q 1.41
Filter 4: ON LPQ Fc 83 Hz Q 1.41
Note: This seems to be working, but I'm open to ideas

 

[RCHeliguy]

After all the mods that I've made to my rig, it's great how there is always a random piece of scrap aluminum hanging around that might work for a first cut of an idea. The aluminum piece I'll be mounting this transducer to was in a pair and it took me a while to even remember what I used it for. It already had two 8mm holes in it that were at a perfect distance for me.

I'll just need to add a 3/8" hole to it. The circle below is approximately where the transducer will be. There is a profile corner through bolted in the top hole and there are two 8mm bolts on the inside of the seat bracket holding the 40x40 profile in place. As usual there is UHMW tape on the profile side touching the seat bracket.

This was the only place I could find to mount this. The left side has a flight throttle or collective stick attached at times, The front has the flight stick and anti-submarine belt mount. The back of the seat is already pretty busy.

Been driving around this morning and it feels very good. I think I've found the happy place for my motion such that I'm enjoying what it adds without it wearing me out.

Maybe I haven't been improving my lap times today but I've been playing with putting my 488 GT3 in iRacing into a slide and recovering it. I'm starting to get get this down. I can feel the back or front just as it is starting to break free, I get just over the limit and then recover. I've managed to get into some 4 wheel drifting into the dirt off track and maintained control back onto the track. The FFB, tactile, G-Belt and motion are feeling pretty well aligned.

I've been playing more with my BK CT driving it harder and lower and I have got some pistoning going on when I'm in a serious slide. I'm going to experiment with the filters a bit to see if I can improve that.

UPS says the transducer will arrive sometime in the next 4 hours. I just need to drill a hole before I mount it, but I want it in my hands first just to verify the bolt hole size and clearance needed for the bolt on the back.

 

[Mr Latte]

My thoughts.....

The last time I looked into PEACE APO was quite some time ago.
It had bugs/issues with my usage and wasn't ideal in a multichannel role as had some lag.
Part of that could of been down to my own setup but others too had reported similar with using on multiple exciters.

Not certain if it now works better but honestly t.tracks DSP is a worthwhile spend, not too hard to grasp. You can check out its software via demo mode (Thomann website) if curious. You configure it, then leave it, no hassle it just works and is one less app on your PC to have to fuss around with.

All TST units are same size, the wattage difference is not the key factor, you won't be using it at its max output anyways. The primary difference is within the power of the magnets used. Marketing blurb used for describing a unit as having X times more power than an Aura Pro does not mean they are more powerful over the whole operating range. I believe more that while not mentioned it can offer an output for certain frequencies upto X times greater.

A TST like a 329 or 429 partnered with a large BK will produce the best low bass and smoothest mid to high bass detail.

However please note:
This is what I termed 9-10 Years ago as "Dual Role" to have both units operating together, rather than still sending all layers of certain effects to one unit (BK) and then all layers of other effects to (TST).

When you apply the "Dual Role" approach then you have two units configured to operate as one unit that achieves the best 1-200Hz range. Simhub makes this easy in how we can route channels, previously with Simvibe you had to duplicate a channel, apply all frequencies then use crossover for each unit to determine what from the frequencies went to the BK and the TST. So Simhub lets us output any layers to any channels which is brilliant. We then use DSP crossover to determine the frequency curve for the BK and for the TST. This way each unit only get the Hz we KNOW it works best with.

You may ask why my own need/desire for exciters then if the TST is great for mid-high bass frequencies? Exciters bring the potential to be applied as "Tri Role" to have the operation of an effect actually split over 3 units (upto the 3rd harmonic) for their combined output. Exciters bring the benefits unlike a TST or BK to be positioned directly to body regions. We can have an effect use the full 200Hz range if desired but it is now spread over the whole seat with each units own role in handling the low bass / mid-bass and harmonics. This is a BIG jump up in how we can now build ANY effects to the standard approach.

Also, we have the option to use these additional channels as beneficial when it comes to adding some extra effects reducing the workload on other units like a traditional CM installation. A BK & TST will reach limits if you start to pile on lots of effects, this is then when you consider having additional sets.

I have 6x 429 set aside for positional usage with 6x BK (3x pairs per side) and 2x 329 Gold to be used with either 2x BK or 2x Q10B, for separated Speed/|RPM roles.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My big concern was that it wouldn't be effective where I had it positioned, but I guess the NLRv3 balancing the whole seat on a pivot and having a little bit of play allows it to do it's thing. I'm not claiming it's ideal by any stretch, but I can feel it.

So far I've just moved the engine rpms over to it. The panametric rpm is going up to 400Hz in SimHub and it feels good all the way up, but I'm not measuring what's coming out of it to verify the frequencies it's reaching.

It doesn't have the authority of the CT, but it's not a wimp either. I haven't tried it without the low pass filtering, but so far it's not making a lot of noise and considering where it's located, that's a very good thing!

So far I haven't felt any lag with the APO. FYI, the Platinum is 10" dia instead of 8" for the Gold and lower.

I definitely don't feel like it has much more power than an Aura, but it has a MUCH larger frequency range. So far so good. The Ferrari reving up to redline is definitely where I've never had it before, but I've just started to play with it and I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface of what it can do.

I still don't have final wiring in place.