Mandatory FOV setup

[SvenUilhoorn]

On installing the game, changing resolution or output device, be asked to enter dimensions and get a (near) correct FOV.

Way too many people who either have no clue about importance FOV, or worse, are against this as they "can't see around them". Which is still difficult for even users on triples, use those look left, look right buttons or get a VR kit (I'm a triples user, not a VR fanboy).

Having a wrong FOV makes it far more difficult to judge braking points, distance to apex and distance to other cars correctly. I've seen numerous people who join our group have very similar behaviour on track as well: swerving, not being able to catch slides, difficulties racing side by side or close to opponents because of inconsistent braking.

Also, a little educational message should be included during that setup; explain why, show examples.

 

[Ghoults]

I don't think mandatory fov settings is a good idea. While you can calculate the perfect realistic fov there is also a subjective side to it. When it comes to seeing corners I think humans can adjust to any fov. Lack of skill is rarely about just wrong fov setting. While I don't suggest extreme values are a good idea I still think going above your calculated fov is not automatically a bad thing.

Looking left and right buttons are important and useful if they actually allow to turn the head 90 degrees (and not just something like 45 degrees like some sims do) but you can not realy hold that button when turning into corners. At tracks like laguna seca you can not literally see the apex as you are in the corner in some corners unless you turn your fov up on some single monitor setups. Look to apex is not a solution either, at least for me I dislike it a lot. So for me even on a single 42" monitor pretty close I need that higher fov to see into corners.

Also bigger fov helps with situational awareness. Sometimes you see things that you would not notice with look left/right buttons. And situational awareness is one of the hardest thing to learn when starting simracing. In the end I don't see any reason trying to mandate something like a fov setting. People just have way too different setups for any mandatory calculated value to work.

And what prevents people from gaming the system? Should kunos then try to police the system and how would they do that? And why bother? If ac2 had such a system the first thing I'd do is to just alter the values so I get the fov I want. Give it bigger monitor values or give it different distances to monitor. After that all that mandatory system has achieved is making the fov setup worse by making it less adjustable, more finicky to get what you want and also for no benefit at all.

I'm all for fov calculators but mandated fov values just doesn't have any benefits as far as I can tell.

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

I don't think mandatory fov settings is a good idea. While you can calculate the perfect realistic fov there is also a subjective side to it. When it comes to seeing corners I think humans can adjust to any fov. Lack of skill is rarely about just wrong fov setting. While I don't suggest extreme values are a good idea I still think going above your calculated fov is not automatically a bad thing.

Looking left and right buttons are important and useful if they actually allow to turn the head 90 degrees (and not just something like 45 degrees like some sims do) but you can not realy hold that button when turning into corners. At tracks like laguna seca you can not literally see the apex as you are in the corner in some corners unless you turn your fov up on some single monitor setups. Look to apex is not a solution either, at least for me I dislike it a lot. So for me even on a single 42" monitor pretty close I need that higher fov to see into corners.

Also bigger fov helps with situational awareness. Sometimes you see things that you would not notice with look left/right buttons. And situational awareness is one of the hardest thing to learn when starting simracing. In the end I don't see any reason trying to mandate something like a fov setting. People just have way too different setups for any mandatory calculated value to work.

And what prevents people from gaming the system? Should kunos then try to police the system and how would they do that? And why bother? If ac2 had such a system the first thing I'd do is to just alter the values so I get the fov I want. Give it bigger monitor values or give it different distances to monitor. After that all that mandatory system has achieved is making the fov setup worse by making it less adjustable, more finicky to get what you want and also for no benefit at all.

I'm all for fov calculators but mandated fov values just doesn't have any benefits as far as I can tell.

At least you state it as your opinion..

5-10 degrees higher based on your setup (in case of smaller single screen setups) could indeed still work, and it's easy to get that into the "in game calculator". A monitor arm for medium size monitors also goes for about 30-50€/$, which makes it far easier to get a better FOV. I've raced for years on a single monitor setup and even with a near correct FOV I have little issues getting to the apex; sometimes I miss them, but the same is true on a triples or VR setup (I've raced on all three); I got used to it and after a few laps you know where you should point/start turning.

Although the sample is not really big, even in the group I run there was a higher amount of incidents and worse track behaviour generally among those with a higher-than-recommended FOV compared to those who run (near) correct FOV. Missing braking points time and time again and ending someone else's and/or your own race online because of that is not really fun for any of the involved.

Higher FOV helps as much with situational awareness as it doesn't help (and often it is even worse); cars seem to move towards you (or vice versa) faster than they actually do, which is not helpful, especially in packed grids. Situational awareness is also pretty easy if you simply leave space when you have lost a car in sight; what's not behind you anymore and was close is likely now aside. Stick to your line.

I don't care if they game the system; I think right now 95% of all people owning Assetto Corsa don't even know what FOV actually does. It also doesn't surprise me that this got downvoted, looking at some of the suggestions that get upvoted.

But anyway, I'm done posting here, I see what it's about for most people.. It is what it is.

For those interested, there are plenty of videos about the importance of correct FOV, a search: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fov+simracing

 

[Ghoults]

At least you state it as your opinion..

5-10 degrees higher based on your setup (in case of smaller single screen setups) could indeed still work, and it's easy to get that into the "in game calculator". A monitor arm for medium size monitors also goes for about 30-50€/$, which makes it far easier to get a better FOV. I've raced for years on a single monitor setup and even with a near correct FOV I have little issues getting to the apex; sometimes I miss them, but the same is true on a triples or VR setup (I've raced on all three); I got used to it and after a few laps you know where you should point/start turning.

Although the sample is not really big, even in the group I run there was a higher amount of incidents and worse track behaviour generally among those with a higher-than-recommended FOV compared to those who run (near) correct FOV. Missing braking points time and time again and ending someone else's and/or your own race online because of that is not really fun for any of the involved.

Higher FOV helps as much with situational awareness as it doesn't help (and often it is even worse); cars seem to move towards you (or vice versa) faster than they actually do, which is not helpful, especially in packed grids. Situational awareness is also pretty easy if you simply leave space when you have lost a car in sight; what's not behind you anymore and was close is likely now aside. Stick to your line.

I don't care if they game the system; I think right now 95% of all people owning Assetto Corsa don't even know what FOV actually does. It also doesn't surprise me that this got downvoted, looking at some of the suggestions that get upvoted.

But anyway, I'm done posting here, I see what it's about for most people.. It is what it is.

For those interested, there are plenty of videos about the importance of correct FOV, a search: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fov+simracing

It is opinions both ways, yours and mine. As far as i know there is no real science being done about what fov on a monitor screen is the best. And best is not the best in every scenario. A wider fov is better for situational awareness whereas smaller fov gives better vision straight ahead. And if realistic fov was clearly the best then in all game types we would use that. But it isn't.

It is also fine to understand what the fov actually means. It is not a physical equation like E=mc^2. It is a geometric equation which just gives you the answer to what fov angle you need on screen to match the angle of the lines that can be drawn from your eye (not even eyes) to the monitor size. That's all there is to it. It is some basic geometry to get some angles to match to an image created on a 2d flat screen. On a 2d screen.

There are tradeoffs with higher and lower fovs. Just because one fov number matches a simple geometric equation based on monitor width and distance to your eyeball does not mean it is the only truth. Even in real cars the windscreen is not perfect. You have warping because bent glass acts like a lens. But because humans are adaptable we can adapt to warped windshields just like we can adapt to right or wrong fov. Things only get bad when the distortion is so bad that can no longer adapt.

Which is why a good fov is what you like. Going little over won't hurt anybody. If you have the screenspace then go for the number the calculator gives you but if not then don't worry about using wrong fov because there is no such thing. Whatever one does, just give yourself time to adapt. It takes some time to get used to a different fov regardless whether you go from slightly too big to geometrically correct or vice versa.

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

Going to dig this up, I had a post ready but decided not to post it because it may have been offensive. You sound a bit like my dad used to sound; even when he agreed with me he tried to challenge me only to be "right" himself. And I think you maybe didn't intend to

I don't really see how my argumentation is opinion. It's been proven that it's much more difficult to be consistent with an FOV (far) too high (the higher, the less consistent you can be, or well, the harder it gets). You judge dimensions a different way, so side to side racing also becomes more of a challenge because it often seems cars are moving towards you much faster than they actually are.

I already mentioned that 5-10 degrees higher on a (smaller) single monitor setup is recommended, and this is also often not the type of "high FOV" that I'm worried about, but more about people running for example double the FOV they mathematically should.

This video by Empty Box, but there are many more, explains enough about not only the why, but also the perceived sense of speed and awareness:

. If the video doesn't convince anyone using a high FOV, read the comments and actually give it a try (for more than 10 seconds ).

As community staff welcoming new members, I can tell within a lap of chasing someone whether he/she is using a far too high FOV. And when changing to their recommended setup, it's always instantly noticeable that their recommended FOV almost instantly yields more consistent results.

I also understand fine that there are limitations to the FOV setting and maybe "mandatory" wasn't the right wording in the title, but I think that most people should at least be given a little bit of guidance in making consistent lines, braking and side to side battling easier and more realistic. I'm pretty sure it would go a long way in making online racing less annoying for all parties involved and make it easier for loads of people to actually enjoy racing other cars more instead of just the "sense of speed" and "awareness" they think they have.

TL;DR: I think you generally agree with me, but the "mandatory" maybe was not the right wording in my title and there are of course limitations to the entire FOV thing. Aside being visibly more accurate, a (near) correct FOV makes for more consistent lapping (less spins, more consistent braking) and more comfortable side by side racing.

 

[Metla]

I've never run the mathematically correct FOV, and never would as I find it immersion breaking and that affects my level of enjoyment.The science is fine, For me the experience is crap.

However, I think implementing an ingame FOV calculator is a great idea, as is throwing it up on the screen at the first launch of the game, and taking the user through the steps. Including adjusting the in-game seat position once the FOV has been set.

But it also needs a big SKIP THIS STEP button....

 

[Botmeister]

When building an application, you sometimes need to "dumb down". Yes, you could make an FOV calculator. Downside is you need to take into consideration that people are dumbasses and your application logic is not the same as their home setups.

So when your application says "come here and fill in these fields: you will have a near perfect FOV after that " you must take the blaim afterwards, when things don't work. Giving people the opportunity to adjust it themselves, is a safer option.

 

[Rui Santos]

As there are lots of people using superultrawide curved monitors, please make an option to calibrate those monitors correctly, so that the edges don't stretch image..