Lower back pain after simracing

[Dienex]

Hey guys I got my new gt omega prime frame a few days ago and I get lower back pain after 20 mins or so in the rig, what do you think I should adjust to reduce the strain on my back? Any input is greatly appreciated

heres a photo of me in the rig:

https://imgur.com/a/ctuAKu6

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Interesting topic. Following with interest to see what improvement tips our experts can provide!

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I am not a doctor...but I'd suggest sitting a tad more upright and raising your wheel a tad.
Stretch

 

[RasmusP]

I'm no expert but I do suffer from all kinds of mild back pain in different positions.
To me, it looks like your wheel is way too low and too far away.
Roll your shoulders back and down, like when standing with good, but relaxed posture.
Then put your arm straight in front of you, hands at the height of your nipples.
Now your wrist should lay at the top of the steering wheel.

Looking at your picture, it's more your finger tips at the top of the wheel with shoulders being rolled slightly forward and your hand at the height of your belly button

This might induce some forward leaning in your upper back that you don't notice while driving?

I drawed in, where I would expect the steering wheel.
I also drawed the angle between legs and back.

I can't sit with 90°. Too much tension in my hips and lower back. I need a tiny bit more. Like 95°-100°.
So I would need the wheel a lot higher and closer and then lean the seat a little bit backwards.
This might cause the need to pivot the whole seat a bit forward to not sit too laid back.

The other thing that might be happening is that your feet are too high or too low or too far away or too close. It's not really visible for an outsider.
The important bit is that your upper legs have as much support from the seat, but without the edge pressing too much into them.
If your upper legs are hanging in the air, you'll have too much pressure in your hips and tension in the lower back.
If the upper legs are too low, blood circulation will be an issue and you might get cold feet or something like that.

Do you have enough contact at the lower back? When I sit at 90° with the feet raised, I often lose contact at my lower back and need an extra cushion.
Or maybe you have plenty of contact but it's too hard when braking, simply causing a pressure point?


In summary:
- wheel higher and closer
- recline the seat a tiny bit
- maybe raise the monitor a little bit. Your head should be in the middle or slightly below
- check the pressure at the upper legs. It's difficult to find the right position. You can either raise them and move them further away until your knees are close to being fully straight. This will make your angle flatter, but might lift your legs too much, when not stepping on the pedal.
OR lower the pedals and move them closer. This will be easier for your hip, but might cause a pressure point on the front edge of the seat, when stepping on the pedals.
It depends on your seat and overall position, which is better for you. But try to get as much of your upper legs firmly supported, while opening the hip angle, but without cutting off blood circulation when braking or at full throttle.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Conflicting theories and instructions, that what you get for asking "the Internet"

But I do concurre with Rasmus that the wheel looks too low and way too far from your shoulders.

Fortunately you have a "real car seat" and can use this settings to make same tests.

So for starters:

pump it all the way down so that the wheel is higher up in comparison to the seating level,
straighten up the back rest and turn out the lumbar support a little more.

That should take care of your lumbar region, in case it was a unnatural curve in your lower spine that made the complaints.

So, let´s say your back is well now, but thighs and shoulders start to complain.
Then its time to reposition your pedals the way Rasmus suggested, you want your thighs/ lower thighs relaxed until you start working the pedals.

For shoulders and arms at least get the steering axle pointing to you shoulders so the distance doesn´t change when turning the wheel.
The distance should be at least so close that when you turn 180°without letting go of the
3/9 o´clock position the arms are not fully extended.
I personally like the wheel closer, my wheel touches the mid of my fore arm when doing the Rasmus test. (Which is often taught in HPDE, but I always start an discusion then.
Countersteering is way faster when the arms are less extended)

 

[RasmusP]

I personally like the wheel closer, my wheel touches the mid of my fore arm when doing the Rasmus test. (Which is often taught in HPDE, but I always start an discusion then.
Countersteering is way faster when the arms are less extended)

My rig isn't as adjustable, but luckily I don't have any pain. I'll try to take a picture in my tiny room, when I get to tidy it up a bit
It's an F-GT Lite with a small cushion in the lower back and 6 cm pretty stiff foam for seats, pedals on 5 cm blocks to raise them a little.

My wheel is a bit too close for my liking, but it works well. It's basically as close as it can be, without making turning 180° without the hands at 3/9 impossible for the lower hand.
When I lean forward to the keyboard on my desk, I can comfortably put my chin on top of the wheel.
Sadly my new round rim isn't as comfy as my old Fanatec McLaren

I did a 24h race in December and sat in the rig for 2x 6 hours. My legs forgot how to walk, but I didn't have issues with the back or cold/numb feet.
At full throttle or heavy braking, the edge of the seat presses too much into my upper legs though, but that's the compromise for having enough support in general without a nice, flexible edge like the MOMO Daytona.

 

[Dienex]

I'm no expert but I do suffer from all kinds of mild back pain in different positions.
To me, it looks like your wheel is way too low and too far away.
Roll your shoulders back and down, like when standing with good, but relaxed posture.
Then put your arm straight in front of you, hands at the height of your nipples.
Now your wrist should lay at the top of the steering wheel.

Looking at your picture, it's more your finger tips at the top of the wheel with shoulders being rolled slightly forward and your hand at the height of your belly button

This might induce some forward leaning in your upper back that you don't notice while driving?

I drawed in, where I would expect the steering wheel.
I also drawed the angle between legs and back.

I can't sit with 90°. Too much tension in my hips and lower back. I need a tiny bit more. Like 95°-100°.
So I would need the wheel a lot higher and closer and then lean the seat a little bit backwards.
This might cause the need to pivot the whole seat a bit forward to not sit too laid back.

View attachment 725785

The other thing that might be happening is that your feet are too high or too low or too far away or too close. It's not really visible for an outsider.
The important bit is that your upper legs have as much support from the seat, but without the edge pressing too much into them.
If your upper legs are hanging in the air, you'll have too much pressure in your hips and tension in the lower back.
If the upper legs are too low, blood circulation will be an issue and you might get cold feet or something like that.

Do you have enough contact at the lower back? When I sit at 90° with the feet raised, I often lose contact at my lower back and need an extra cushion.
Or maybe you have plenty of contact but it's too hard when braking, simply causing a pressure point?


In summary:
- wheel higher and closer
- recline the seat a tiny bit
- maybe raise the monitor a little bit. Your head should be in the middle or slightly below
- check the pressure at the upper legs. It's difficult to find the right position. You can either raise them and move them further away until your knees are close to being fully straight. This will make your angle flatter, but might lift your legs too much, when not stepping on the pedal.
OR lower the pedals and move them closer. This will be easier for your hip, but might cause a pressure point on the front edge of the seat, when stepping on the pedals.
It depends on your seat and overall position, which is better for you. But try to get as much of your upper legs firmly supported, while opening the hip angle, but without cutting off blood circulation when braking or at full throttle.

thanks for the detailed response!

brought the seat up and forward, monitor and middle of the wheel up to around my shoulder. feels much better

I also realise alot of the pain may have been from carrying the boxes for the rig up to my attic and leaning over building it for 1.5 days haha

 

[jacksorensen]

Hello. I have worked as a welder for many years in monotonous positions and had problems with my back, sometimes I was in so much pain that I had to roll out of bed in the morning. The recommendation I received was to get a pair of Hicking shoes and go out and walk on uneven ground at a good speed, it strengthens both the butt muscles and back muscles, and exercise some abdominal muscles, going out into the woods and fields is probably the best medicine.
Also started working out on a Yoga course which is very good at strengthening and stretching the whole body, if you don't have much time to work out then yoga is good.

And Agree with the other speakers about sitting positions!

Link to some good exercises:Yoga for back pain

 

[Pete Conway]

It's no good for you, leave it outside by the gate and I'll pick it up later

Edit: I get the same problem when standing doing the washing up... I could leave that by my gate in exchange

 

[and020217]

Hi guys,

Don’t want to hijack the topic, but I’m also experiencing problems sim racing, mainly lower back pain and numbness in my left foot. Going to book into a physio but thought I‘d ask here for advice. Pics attached. Anything with my position that screams out as problematic to any of you guys?

I’ve been sim racing for a long, long time, have been experiencing problems since I moved from my DIY rig to a NLR 80/20 rig in mid-2022.

Cheers
Josh

 

[RasmusP]

Looks all good. Might be the seat.
What does look a bit interesting is the gap here:

If that's your "idle" position, you might have too much pressure on your hips and not enough support on your upper legs.
Or the brake is not far enough on the left, if you're left-foot-braking?

Ooor there's enough support, but when you're braking, the front edge of the seat is pushing too much into your upper leg?
I had issues with numb feet and raising the pedals helped.

Or maybe your lower back isn't supported enough by the seat?
For me, I always get "restless legs" before my lower back actually starts complaining.

So nothing really obvious in your pictures, but a numb left foot might indicate too high/low/close/far pedals or a pressure point/no support from the seat around the lower back and hip.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Like Rasmus I think you could do with better support for your thighs.
Are your feet relaxed when they touch the pedals or do you have to "pull up" to avoid brake/gas input?

For a first, easy test I´d slide the pedals forward and change the angle so that your legs are completely relaxed when they lightly touch the pedals.

Depending on brake force it´s ok for the heel to lift off (when braking with upper thigh muscles)

If that improves things it´s time to find pedal height, I think they could be higher.

 

[Elaphe]

Maybe it's a problem with your seat and not your setting position. Have you tried with a different bucket seat?

 

[and020217]

Thanks guys, I’ll try those changes today. I’ve tried several seats, sparco pro 2000 sim seat, next level racing ers2 and now the racetech (spent a bit…) with similar outcomes.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I'd suggest to move pedals higher. This typical sim rig bus driver seating position works fine for potentiometer based pedals but not so great when moving to load celled brakes that require some serious pushing which causing spine compression. You want push your back against seat, not up.

https://heusinkveld.com/wp-content/uploads/seating_positions.jpg