How many FPS for a really smooth image

[Max Melamed]

Hey guys,

so I am playing around with my graphics settings atm quite a lot as I want to maximise the eyecandy ACC delivers. While doing so, I personally get the feeling that ACC or to be precise the Unreal Engine 4 delivers a smooth experience only over 90 FPS. Is this only me or can anyone relate?

Hints/tips on the fps optimal for the UE4 are welcome.

 

[RasmusP]

In game resolution is 110% monitor is Benq E3203R 32" 2560x1440 144hz freesync 2

That should help with the flickering of the lines but it sounds more like you are either sensitive (then you should see the same in ac, rF2 etc though) or your graphic settings are leading to some LOD issues. Could you describe the flickering?

Just noticed that my monitor can go up to 3840x2160 in game but I don't normally have it there.

That's pretty weird. Normally that should only be available if you have "dsr" active. You can select the different multiples of your resolution to be available. If you deselect them all, dsr gets deactivated completely.

the only resolution I can get is 60hz or 144hz that's with display port cable, should I change to HDMI? I should be able to get 100 or 120hz etc?

You mean the only refresh rate? It highly depends on the monitor which modes are available. I have 50/60/85/100 and even custom resolutions+refresh rates won't work. The monitor just goes black if I try to run it at 55 hz or something. Although it happily goes from 20-100 when gsync is active.

With hdmi gsync doesn't work. It only does via displayport. So while you might get other modes available to use for whatever scenario, using gsync won't be one of them.
Scenarios might be watching a 24 fps bluray movie synced with 24hz etc.

 

[jimortality]

That should help with the flickering of the lines but it sounds more like you are either sensitive (then you should see the same in ac, rF2 etc though) or your graphic settings are leading to some LOD issues. Could you describe the flickering?

That's pretty weird. Normally that should only be available if you have "dsr" active. You can select the different multiples of your resolution to be available. If you deselect them all, dsr gets deactivated completely.

You mean the only refresh rate? It highly depends on the monitor which modes are available. I have 50/60/85/100 and even custom resolutions+refresh rates won't work. The monitor just goes black if I try to run it at 55 hz or something. Although it happily goes from 20-100 when gsync is active.

With hdmi gsync doesn't work. It only does via displayport. So while you might get other modes available to use for whatever scenario, using gsync won't be one of them.
Scenarios might be watching a 24 fps bluray movie synced with 24hz etc.

I might try it without gsync compatible mode and see what it looks like. I watched a review from sim racing garage and he doesn't think it's compatible.

 

[RasmusP]

I might try it without gsync compatible mode and see what it looks like. I watched a review from sim racing garage and he doesn't think it's compatible.

You should check for a hz counter in your monitor osd and also check the gsync overlay with the profile inspector. That way you can be completely sure.
Also you should download the "gsync pendulum demo". There you can set for fixed or variable fps with two sliders and quickly select between no sync, vsync and gsync.
This way you'll definitely see the differences!

 

[jimortality]

That should help with the flickering of the lines but it sounds more like you are either sensitive (then you should see the same in ac, rF2 etc though) or your graphic settings are leading to some LOD issues. Could you describe the flickering?

That's pretty weird. Normally that should only be available if you have "dsr" active. You can select the different multiples of your resolution to be available. If you deselect them all, dsr gets deactivated completely.

You mean the only refresh rate? It highly depends on the monitor which modes are available. I have 50/60/85/100 and even custom resolutions+refresh rates won't work. The monitor just goes black if I try to run it at 55 hz or something. Although it happily goes from 20-100 when gsync is active.

With hdmi gsync doesn't work. It only does via displayport. So while you might get other modes available to use for whatever scenario, using gsync won't be one of them.
Scenarios might be watching a 24 fps bluray movie synced with 24hz etc.

The flickering is there on the white grid lines and then is not the closer you get and also some outer track white lines are the same and Paul Ricard all the Blue off track stuff is flickering, and a bit of a mess. That's strange, I downloaded the profiler and followed your instructions and it said Gsync ON but I started to get the black screen happening which shows it's not compatible. strange part is that until I had the profiler, I didn't get that black screen issue which I've heard about. Maybe something in the profiler doesn't like the freesync monitor.

 

[RasmusP]

The flickering is there on the white grid lines and then is not the closer you get and also some outer track white lines are the same and Paul Ricard all the Blue off track stuff is flickering, and a bit of a mess.

Yep, that's just aliased pixel crawling. And I hate it. Sadly with dx11 most games don't offer msaa anymore so you can't force sgssaa either. Assetto corsa and rF2 luckily do but acc with its unreal engine only offers fxaa and taa.
It's okay if you have only 27" with 1440p but with my old 27" 1080p it didn't look great.
I made a video about it using rocket league. Have a look and tell me if it looks familiar:

 

[jimortality]

Yep, that's just aliased pixel crawling. And I hate it. Sadly with dx11 most games don't offer msaa anymore so you can't force sgssaa either. Assetto corsa and rF2 luckily do but acc with its unreal engine only offers fxaa and taa.
It's okay if you have only 27" with 1440p but with my old 27" 1080p it didn't look great.
I made a video about it using rocket league. Have a look and tell me if it looks familiar:

Yes the first one looks similar and the rest looked smoother

 

[Max Melamed]

@RasmusP thank you for your tipps yesterday. G-Sync is now finally working and I even get a smooth looking image below 60 FPS if I try 4K for the fun.

I am really curious if and how big the performance gains are in the final release version. As by now I am amazed that I can run basically everything maxed out (except for shadows high because epic just uses crazy amounts of performance) and I have above 85 FPS everytime running a customized resolution of 3200x1350 21:9 aspect ratio.

If there are more performance gains 4K might be doable above 60 FPS all the time, buttersmooth even with the worst weather and a packed starting grid

 

[RasmusP]

@RasmusP thank you for your tipps yesterday. G-Sync is now finally working and I even get a smooth looking image below 60 FPS if I try 4K for the fun.

I am really curious if and how big the performance gains are in the final release version. As by now I am amazed that I can run basically everything maxed out (except for shadows high because epic just uses crazy amounts of performance) and I have above 85 FPS everytime running a customized resolution of 3200x1350 21:9 aspect ratio.

If there are more performance gains 4K might be doable above 60 FPS all the time, buttersmooth even with the worst weather and a packed starting grid

Great to hear!

 

[jimortality]

Unfortunately, after all my messing around I had to do a full pc reset. The inspector wouldn't uninstall and I'm sure it was messing with the gsync freesync. I've started a fresh and I'm now getting an extra 20fps lol! Pc gaming is so crazy lol

 

[RasmusP]

Unfortunately, after all my messing around I had to do a full pc reset. The inspector wouldn't uninstall and I'm sure it was messing with the gsync freesync. I've started a fresh and I'm now getting an extra 20fps lol! Pc gaming is so crazy lol

What exactly did you do with "the inspector"? What did you download?
The inspector works like this:
It's a standalone exe which does not install anything. When you start it, it reads out the current nvidia driver configuration and gives you advanced settings that are normally hidden.
Then you hit "apply" and the changes get written into your nvidia driver.
After you close the inspector exe, it's like it was never there. You can delete the exe or do whatever you want with it, it's not "running" or anything.

If you go into the nvidia driver panel, change something there and save the changes, the inspector changes will get overwritten. And also the settings that are normally hidden will become overwritten by the nvidia defaults.

So if you forces sgssaa super sampling with a custom "bit" via the inspector and then update the nvidia driver, all settings that you can see from the standard control panel will still be there but hidden settings like the "bit" will be reset to nvidia defaults.

The nvidia inspector can be seen like a text editor that can open the nvidia config and change hidden stuff. You "save the text file" and the inspector doesn't do anything with it.

That's why I'm asking what you did exactly.. It sounds that something got wrong

 

[jimortality]

What exactly did you do with "the inspector"? What did you download?
The inspector works like this:
It's a standalone exe which does not install anything. When you start it, it reads out the current nvidia driver configuration and gives you advanced settings that are normally hidden.
Then you hit "apply" and the changes get written into your nvidia driver.
After you close the inspector exe, it's like it was never there. You can delete the exe or do whatever you want with it, it's not "running" or anything.

If you go into the nvidia driver panel, change something there and save the changes, the inspector changes will get overwritten. And also the settings that are normally hidden will become overwritten by the nvidia defaults.

So if you forces sgssaa super sampling with a custom "bit" via the inspector and then update the nvidia driver, all settings that you can see from the standard control panel will still be there but hidden settings like the "bit" will be reset to nvidia defaults.

The nvidia inspector can be seen like a text editor that can open the nvidia config and change hidden stuff. You "save the text file" and the inspector doesn't do anything with it.

That's why I'm asking what you did exactly.. It sounds that something got wrong

Well, I downloaded it and followed the instructions and when I started it said gsync on but I started getting screen black out so I assumed it was the inspector causing it as it hadn't really been I hadn't had that problem before. When I went to delete all the nvidia inspector files it kept saying that it was open in another file, please close and try again. Problem was it was the nvdisplay. Container. Exe but whatever I tried it wouldn't let me delete so.........

 

[RasmusP]

Well, I downloaded it and followed the instructions and when I started it said gsync on but I started getting screen black out so I assumed it was the inspector causing it as it hadn't really been I hadn't had that problem before. When I went to delete all the nvidia inspector files it kept saying that it was open in another file, please close and try again. Problem was it was the nvdisplay. Container. Exe but whatever I tried it wouldn't let me delete so.........

Yeah that sounds very weird and problematic indeed Oo no idea why or how that happened

 

[manu68]

I have read somewhere that gsync only work properly when vsync is on too. Easy to find on the web.
It is then recommended to cap your fps at 141hz for a 144hz monitor, and activate gsync and vsync (of course the vsync will never be active, but makes gsync work properly )

Just have a look in internet if interested.

 

[manu68]

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

It doesnt come from me, also peace

 

[RasmusP]

I have read somewhere that gsync only work properly when vsync is on too. Easy to find on the web.
It is then recommended to cap your fps at 141hz for a 144hz monitor, and activate gsync and vsync (of course the vsync will never be active, but makes gsync work properly )

Just have a look in internet if interested.

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

It doesnt come from me, also peace

I can say for me it makes no difference if vsync is on or off as long as I don't reach the maximum. I tested this a few times.
But they say that gsync + vsync makes the syncing of the monitor and the gpu complete.
So before a frame is put out, the gpu and the monitor "sync" to something like "okay this frame will be displayed for x.x ms and then I'll switch to another timing for the next frame".
If your GPU suddenly renders quicker, it will push the next frame onto the Monitor without letting the monitor finish his frame. Vsync hold the image back until the monitor is done.
The monitor and gpu will then change to a quicker refresh for the next frame to compensate.
If the gpu now gets slower, the monitor will just wait for the gpu.

So vsync + gsync does make sense for the case where your fps become higher. If the fps drop, the monitor will wait. But if the fps increase, the gpu will just stuff the frame onto the monitor.

Good to know and I think that blurbuster article got update regarding this. I can't remember reading this part the last time I read the whole thing! Thanks for the link again

However, FLICKERING should never appear!

 

[maelstrom]

- fast: Your PC will be allowed to render as many fps as it can do. The frame buffer will grab an image every 16.67ms. You can already see the problem... Depending on the fps your hardware can ouput, the timings will look like this:
Frame 1 ->16.67ms -> Frame 3 -> 16.67ms -> Frame 4 -> 16.67ms -> Frame 7 -> 16.67ms -> Frame 8.

So you'll have a non-tearing image but the frame that gets put into the frame buffer can be "old". It can be 16.66ms old or only 00.01ms old. The result is a choppy one.
Only if you have like let's say 130 fps for a 60 hz monitor the "age" of the single frames won't be a problem anymore.

Either I've misunderstood your explanation or you're wrong! Fast sync introduces an extra buffer rather than just grabbing images at a fixed speed. See this for a better explanation: https://beebom.com/what-is-nvidia-fast-sync-enable/. I use Fast Sync in other games and it works really well - smooth with no tearing and no apparent lag.

 

[RasmusP]

Either I've misunderstood your explanation or you're wrong! Fast sync introduces an extra buffer rather than just grabbing images at a fixed speed. See this for a better explanation: https://beebom.com/what-is-nvidia-fast-sync-enable/. I use Fast Sync in other games and it works really well - smooth with no tearing and no apparent lag.

Thanks for the link!
Actually... Both I think. To make this "grabbing images at fixed speed" you do need the extra buffer.
But I'll admit that I'm not sure that I'm wrong!
Either way, it stutters for me. Tried it when it came out back then and also over the years a few times. It also stutters for all friends with nvidia cards.
I always hear great things about fast sync but could never use it or ever see it working somewhere else in person.
Good to hear that it's working for some at least

 

[Kek700]

Unfortunately i’m not going to offer anything to this “very interesting” forum chit chat.
except to say -
With AC i have spent the last 18months chasing 144hz. I have been pre occupied with
this, suffering all the symptoms of this pursuit, stuttering,tearing, and frame lags, etc, etc.
Eventually, giving up and buying a G-Sync monitor, sticking with its g-sync controlled
120Hz.
With the advent of ACC, being constrained now, not only by my CPU but also the GPU.
Having now to resign myself to a quality image, but now at a G-synced 60Hz.
To my surprise not only is the G-synced image very smooth,
( my CPU & GPU can easily manage this ) but i do not notice the loss of 60Hz at all.
In fact the better quality image of ACC seems to more than compensate for what i would
not have accepted 18 months ago.

 

[manu68]

Exactly what I am trying to explain too.
I dont really care about the fps, just because with gsync the game (sorry , simulation) runs smooth at all fps level.
I am always at more than 60fps, which can contribue to this feeling .
The rest is computer science for scientists !

 

[jimortality]

So I get over 100fps sometimes 130 but I'm not sure what else to do to make it look better, especially the aliasing. I love the sim 100% but it's not the best looking game or is that something I'm not doing? This is the problem I have when reading forums, I suddenly develop problems when there weren't any before lol.