PC2 Have Your Say: Project CARS 2 Three Months On

[Paul Jeffrey]

Project CARS 2 released across PC and console platforms back on the 22nd September to mixed reviews, now three months and a couple of patches we want you to 'Have Your Say'...

The latest racing title from Slightly Mad Studios continues to divide opinion throughout the sim racing community, often mixing the sublime with the ridiculous in equal measure as it constantly strives to achieve the lofty ideals set forth by an aggressive pre release marketing campaign.

Shipping in a sub optimal state and having since been in receipt of a sizable updates, the question for today is:

How do you feel Project CARS 2 has progressed since release day, and what are your impressions of the game now?

Have fun, stay respectful and enjoy the weekend!

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Good point Dirk. For all the issues (of which there are many and some quite serious), I think SMS should be applauded for really pushing the envelope in sim racing and attempting to create a package that really advances the state of the art. No other sim developer has done this and pCARS2 certainly shows how limited other sims are in their scope.

From all the frustration dealing with issues and bugs with PC2 since release but also having experienced some of those truly bright moments in sim racing that NO OTHER software could deliver thus far this was the major point I took away from Project Cars 2 thus far.

There will be no future serious racing simulator complete without proper dynamic lighting and day/night transitions and a basic implementation of different weather conditions that can realistically occur during a live race.

Dynamic track surface is an absolute MUST in any future racing simulator - a race track develops over an entire racing weekend and the already available simulations of this will have to be expanded in future racing sims (different grip levels, constantly developing track surface conditions, water, rubber build up, marbles and dirt, …).

There HAS TO BE a solid track limits and flag system available from day one in future racing sims - it is simply one major features that has to be included and be working properly (current penalty system in PC2 is a fresh and good approach in principle but has to be dialed in and fixed as currently it is VERY flawed in practice.

Online racing, eSports, global competition and driver ratings are absolute mandatory features of ANY serious future racing sim. The sport has outgrown the old days of racing fans sitting in a closet and playing single play championship races and is developing FAST into a truly competitive worldwide serious sport. Any future racing sim that gets this part right will be big.

For a short time in history some of us feared that sim racing is going the way of serious flight sims or train simulators ;-) Not so much it seems now as the future of sim racing looks brighter then ever this this RACING ADDICT.

 

[apex11]

Good point Dirk. For all the issues (of which there are many and some quite serious), I think SMS should be applauded for really pushing the envelope in sim racing and attempting to create a package that really advances the state of the art. No other sim developer has done this and pCARS2 certainly shows how limited other sims are in their scope.

Quite agree...
Like i said already, I was one of the few people that dared to say i loved Shift 2 (once i sorted out the car settings etc) on my xbox 360 with the xbox wheel.
Yes racepro was good but for me it was Shift 2. The game still has the best ever custom implementation in that you could take a road car and upgrade till it was race spec all the time watching the cockpit change!!
Shift 2 had windscreen reflections way before Forza....
Anyway, i was looking forward to PCars 1 as i liked Shift 2.
PCars 1 was a breath of fresh air, loved it, yes FFB settings were nuts, but it got me fully inot the 'sim' scene, so got all the gear and had a nice set up though it was only on xbox one...
over 600 hours on PCars 1.
Then i got a PC.

So yeah for me SMS have given me a lot in return for very little.
Shift 2 cost me £12
PCars 1 £20

But during that period i did notice that the official forum was a strange place, PC guys would openly slag off consoles despite consoles being 80% of sales at that time approx.
It wasn't stopped by the mods it was egged on.
Anyway it was then not nice to be a person who played a lot of the game but had a few issues and to be told "well you should of got a PC"...

Well i did and it showed me there were other sims out there.
I am not a 'hater', for sure i dislike some of the way SMS go about business and attitude, and the mods on the official forum are some of the very worst on the internet.

I'm not someone who calls PCars 2 simcade...its not, i drive real racing cars (in a testing role, i don't race and in honestly its not because i'm good its because my family own a race team)
PCars 1 and 2 both stack up very very well, certainly if we compared RF2 Renault 3.5 to PCars 2 its incredible how perfect thy both are, it is like being in the same car on each game...

So yeah, love it, really happy with it. BUT the caveat is that i want to be able to still say it needs improvements or has issues etc without straight away being called a 'hater'....

I admit, i don't like the way Ian Bell comes across on his forum..but i respect it is his forum, he pays for it...
I'm sure he is a wonderful Dad / husband and he should be incredibly proud...yes even of SHift 2 !!! (despite what people say)
But in a game context... SMS are not much better than codemasters / turn 10 / EA.
But thats a game context...not really a big deal.

But yes...to wrap up.
countless hours on Shift 2
600+ hours on PCars 1
PCars 2 many hours to come for sure.
But stop banning people for simply wanting to express themselves as customers.
And don't be such snowflakes over any criticisms....
And some of the 'hate' for SMS comes from paying off people like PRC....
But Ian i do like how you played Austin / James..... the long game.

 

[beorn2]

Well....I wanted to like it..... But for me sim racing is all about the feel of the car. I love the work Reiza have put into AMS in this area. It's so immersive and transmits so much information to the driver. You can really feel what the cars are doing and when your reaching their limits. Each car mod has it's own distinct feel and required driving style. There are no good and bad cars and tracks either, as mentioned here in regard to PC2, in AMS they're all good. Been driving it since it was released and still have an excited anticipation when I'm about to race, with PC2 i was bored after an hour or two.
From my perspective PC2 is more "game" than "sim". I have them all on PC and the others all make for a more exciting, realistic driving experience, and that's what i'm looking for in sim racing.
I'll persist with PC2, but must say I'm disappointed. It may look good, but from a driving perspective, it's not in the same league.

 

[apex11]

Well....I wanted to like it..... But for me sim racing is all about the feel of the car. I love the work Reiza have put into AMS in this area. It's so immersive and transmits so much information to the driver. You can really feel what the cars are doing and when your reaching their limits. Each car mod has it's own distinct feel and required driving style. There are no good and bad cars and tracks either, as mentioned here in regard to PC2, in AMS they're all good. Been driving it since it was released and still have an excited anticipation when I'm about to race, with PC2 i was bored after an hour or two.
From my perspective PC2 is more "game" than "sim". I have them all on PC and the others all make for a more exciting, realistic driving experience, and that's what i'm looking for in sim racing.
I'll persist with PC2, but must say I'm disappointed. It may look good, but from a driving perspective, it's not in the same league.

AMS is great, i play it the least out of all the sims and i am still waiting for it to hook me in, it has the best karts of any sim for sure.
RACEROOM i play the most but that is mainly because its the first game since ToCA 1 where you can pretend to be a Touring car driver (WTCC), its incredible for FWD touring cars that game.
RF2 i got because it's all i ever saw online about how its the best 'proper' sim...i got it cheap as mainly a benchmark for me...and yes it fantastic, but the main thing i get is just how similar the sims are in user feel.
AC is great on PC, on console not so much, don't like Kunos's approach to its customers either frankly, but love the PC version of the game.
I literally can play these games back to back and all feel for the most part like driving a car which i can do in real life, i don't have to adapt to them other than simply driving....

Assetto Corsa and PCars franchise seems to attract the worst type of fanboys though and seems to be egged on by their forums.

 

[John Chaser]

I think it's a fairly decent game if you accept it for what it is.

It's difficult to get a good discussion going about PC2. In most comment sections it turns toxic very quick and the SMS forums have quite a few fanboys.

 

[apex11]

I think it's a fairly decent game if you accept it for what it is.

It's difficult to get a good discussion going about PC2. In most comment sections it turns toxic very quick and the SMS forums have quite a few fanboys.

Basically summed up what I've taken about 20 posts to make....
As soon as you don't say all is utter perfection within PCars 2 you get rounded on..and they even try it out side of the official forum.....
They see it all as a big competition. So to them, if you say "i like PCars 2 but there is an issue with....." they read that as "Forza is better" or "RF2 is better"....
So they respond with abuse....
They can't fathom that someone could and ca play all of the sims and like them all.... because they sadly for them have for some unknown reason pledged this alligence that means they can only play one sim and can't possibly ever be seen to play anything else..
So having any rational debate with them is pretty impossible.

 

[Boneboys]

I enjoy PC2 and race nothing else now.
AC seems pale in comparison, this includes the FFB.

The only negative thing I will say about PC2 is that the on-line rating system does not encourage people who care about their rank / level to race anything other than what they are accustomed to, both cars, tracks and even different weather conditions on known tracks which affect any setups they have made.
This results in people only racing car & tracks that they are confident with, therefore reducing variety of on-line lobbies available.
I am a self imposed victim of this phenomenon but I know it concerns many other daily racers, this can be seen by checking the server browser on a regular basis.
I concentrate on GT3 McLaren 620S on the most popular circuits Monza / Spa / RBR &+++...
I have setups for each track which I'm happy with.

This was not my choice !
I prefer open wheeled racing, vintage or modern but unfortunately the way the point system works does not help at all, one reason being that a F1 (A) or similar are more prone to collision and serious damage at the slightest contact.
That's my theory and I'm sticking with it !

I'm not really interested in SP so the AI problems are unknown to me, same goes for the Xbox controller problems that so many rage against.
My G29 + Shifter are performing as expected regarding ratio (hands / position), I suspect the people complaining about this have not set up their config correctly (it took my several attempts to get it right).
So yep, I like the game for what it is, bugZ n all.

NOTE : I'm a little saddened to see this very fine Forum become a dumping ground for so much toxic waste.

Have fun.

 

[infamouswaine]

im going to be completely honest i like project cars 2 lets not take away what it has achieved rather than what an entire community decided to dream up in their own minds how the game should or have been on release

with most games these day you will have your base from there comes updates and DLC its not uncommon to see developers work in the back ground etc, as for the bad show of support from SMS on their official forums i cannot comment on that but i can see why this is frustrating.

The weather when it works is great the sounds are pretty sweet, the controllers and wheel options increased but support wise is always been poor regardless of the hardware you use. i think part of the blame comes down to consumers if you dont do your research or you dont setup your wheel right or use common sense when it comes to hardware compatibility i dont think you have the right to bad mouth or tarnish a game you cant use properly in the first place. the majority of the wheels are aimed for console use as a plug and play over a fully calibrated wheel to use in a race environment. We make the best of what we have which is fine however we cant always blame the developers because your feedback is not the same as you had been lead to believe. everyone has a different experience. It takes time to setup project cars its not a arcade game where your settings are going to be perfect off the bat. you need to change to suit your driving style and quite frankly spending two hours on it and returning it tells me 1 of 2 things

1 you invested little time into the game and never gave it a chance

2 Project cars is meant to be different every time you use it! hense the different classes forget AI its never been outstanding so never put all your eggs in the basket over your experience. if the AI offers you limited options go race online. that was the whole reason the multiplayer option is available.

 

[apex11]

Problem is though it's like Trump. if you say you don't like Trump then his fanboys will say you are a "libtard" "snowflake" "alt left" etc etc
You should be allowed to not like a game without fear of abuse surely?
No one so far as i can see has slagged anyone off for enjoying the game? So why this level of hostility towards those that don't like it?
Mental fans basically.
You adore the game, fine, well stop trying to make everyone else adore it and actually just go and spend some time playing it rather than going around the internet stopping others having opinions...jesus man...

 

[GuitarTech]

Completely unrelated to this thread or any shared opinions around the topic:
Thanks for sharing this youtube link.
I didn't know Jan Seyffarth's channel and look forward to some of his videos related to sim racing and his opinion on the different options we have, thanks for sharing!

Aren't the times we live in with sim racing great? I love that we have a few major choices in high quality simulators and can pick and choose each for the right purpose.

Can't stand the buggy state Project Cars 2 is in? Get your GT3 racing fix with Assetto Corsa, Raceroom, rFactor 2 or iRacing.

Want most beautiful graphics with moments as Sunrise in a light rain on Sunday morning at the Circuit de la Sarthe, driving a Group C Porsche 962? Go get your fix in Project Cars 2!

Wan't to race 1992 DTM racers around a great quality Nordschleife? Go Raceroom!
…

I have pre purchased a complete Steam package at full price.
It was on release date not possible to get it to run properly (major issues with flickering textures with triple screen and multi AMD GPUs + even on absolute lowest graphics settings it would run at absolute abysmal FPS and would look horrible compared to all other major racing sims).
I waited for fixes and as of today many issues I had have been fixed. But also many issues are still ruining a good experience.

Ignoring the obvious bugs still existing, one can clearly see that the core of the software does have great potential. When all bugs are solved PC2 can be an enjoyable package.

My personal impression is though when looking at all aspects of the software that SMS clearly have taken on more than they can chew and had to deliver to a tight deadline an unquestionably premature product NOT ready for release.
The all out superlative marketing and almost exclusively positive review of bloggers and journalists in combination with comments of racing drivers and people involved in the development have been VERY misleading (in hindsight this may have taught all of use something about their credibility and misleading marketing in general - I have taken my lessons there).
I was let down by PC1 and have found myself lured by false superlative statements prior to release into pre ordering PC2. I strongly regret that I have pre purchased PC2. Ideally I would have resisted the sweet marketing calls and simply would have waited until the product would be in a solid condition with all major bugs ironed out.

If one looks at PC2 for what it is (and simply blinds out what one hoped it would be and simply isn't - a SIMULATOR of the same or higher degree of realism compared to the current major racing simulators which it simply is not and probably never meant to be by it's core designers) then one will find Project Cars 2 a highly enjoyable Racing Game, without a doubt one of the better ones available for consoles.

Many aspects of the game have features not currently available in other offerings and if not for anything else we all should respect and credit SMS for one very important thing:

SMS pushed the envelop in it's feature set and sure enough will current and future serious racing simulators follow suit and have to implement some or all of these features the community is asking for so long now (luckily we have seen some movement into that direction already).

For THAT I love Project Cars 2.

Well done sir: at last someone who is mature enough to see it like it is. I have AC, PC1, PC2, rF2, AMS, R3E and Dirt Rally. They're all good at doing some things, none of them can do everything perfectly. That's just the way it is, it's always been like that, people should get over it, and do what Dirk Steffen suggests: use every sim for what it's best at.
In my dreams I see a sim with the physics and FF from rF2, the eye candy and content from PC2, and the sound quality from R3E.......but I'm not holding my breath waiting

 

[Corsairmitch]

Amazing graphics with a sound fit a game of the 90s !!!

 

[apex11]

Well done sir: at last someone who is mature enough to see it like it is. I have AC, PC1, PC2, rF2, AMS, R3E and Dirt Rally. They're all good at doing some things, none of them can do everything perfectly. That's just the way it is, it's always been like that, people should get over it, and do what Dirk Steffen suggests: use every sim for what it's best at.
In my dreams I see a sim with the physics and FF from rF2, the eye candy and content from PC2, and the sound quality from R3E.......but I'm not holding my breath waiting

I think you will find you are not alone in that. I have every sim available and love them all but some i use more.
The main thing is they all pretty much for the most part feel 'right'.
But there is only 2 I own that generates such abuse if you dare to suggest areas in which they are weak.....AC and PCars.
They also just happen to have 2 top guys, Stephano and Ian who don't seem able to deal with any customers who aren't blowing smoke up their butts.
They maybe should lead by example.
Can you imagine the CEO of Coco Cola wading into online forums slagging off people who prefer Pepsi?

 

[snyperal]

I think you will find you are not alone in that. I have every sim available and love them all but some i use more.
The main thing is they all pretty much for the most part feel 'right'.
But there is only 2 I own that generates such abuse if you dare to suggest areas in which they are weak.....AC and PCars.
They also just happen to have 2 top guys, Stephano and Ian who don't seem able to deal with any customers who aren't blowing smoke up their butts.
They maybe should lead by example.
Can you imagine the CEO of Coco Cola wading into online forums slagging off people who prefer Pepsi?

I do think Ian and Stefano should team up and make a title. The forums alone would be worth the admission fee.

 

[traind]

PC2 is enjoyable for me. A very large leap forward from PC1.... most of us agree. How competitive PC2 is with the other sims is the point where we tend to see disagreement and, unfortunately, the fanboys and haters too.

I agree with the recent posts that basically say. "No sim is best in every area". PC2 has its moments for me where it feels great. I value handling feel above all other qualities in a sim and some of the cars in PC2 feel great.... the McLaren 570S and 720S are two examples and the rallycross cars are also very entertaining. I think PC2 does a very good job when tires are over the limit and these cars demonstrate that strength. And certainly the feature set is impressive even if the execution isn't always consistent.

I do think that SMS provides a lot of content for money but it comes with a downside... inconsistency. As good as the cars are that I just named above, there are also a number that are failures. I am not sure if it is a failure in their data, physics or something technical but I am going to chalk it up as they bit off more than they could chew and put out a bunch of cars that feel wooden as a result. As an example, most formula cars are in that boat. Their Lotus 49 looks absolutely gorgeous but understeers like a pig. They made an adjustment to it and it still understeers. The 98T feels appropriately crazy so they get some kudos there but the modern formula cars feel poor. The Indycar is perhaps the best of the bunch but it is clearly behind the best from other sims. Other sims have much more car quality consistency... namely AC and AMS and now iRacing & RF2 are getting there too.

So I am still exploring PC2's content. I have more to learn about it. But it has been worth the price and I am looking forward to the dlc. It is not my number one choice in sims but if I want to drive a McLaren, a Ford GT, Z06 or ZL1.... I am going to PC2. Want a night race or one where the sun is coming up or going down, rain perhaps? PC2 is again a good choice.

A summary of some other road course racing choices.....
for street legal sports cars? Assetto Corsa!
For historic 60s era formula cars? RF2, hands down!
For 1980s to current formula one? Automobilista!

 

[Amir Vodokotlic]

I think the base of pcars 2 is good but it still needs massive overhaul in terms of force feedback.

You shouldn't need x100 different flavors of ffb to get it right.

Few days ago I tried jack spade ffb files and it made the GT3 cars feel really good. Dare I say engaging fun...

Than without changing any of the ffb I decided to drive the McLaren 720s and it was like what in the beep is this.

..........One guy should create all the car physics and most importantly have the ffb work same for all cars.

 

[davifernandeslima]

Look, you have a valid complaint. I fully understand that, you just get caught up with the toxic tossers. As a wheel user and very happy with it I knew there were issues with a pad and I'm surprised they weren't resolved. I've been narked off by a shed load of games and I just move on. Thing is I understand devs have a limited time and budget and can only get so much done and HAVE to prioritise.

Personally I'm narked off scripted weather (albeit with some randomisation) is back. I mention it a few times politely where and when I can, but I don't create threads saying "SMS suck" like some people do (not aimed at you). This is the bull **** SMS have had to put up with and it's wearing thin. I'm also not a big fan of the typical business model of moving on to a new game, but I understand how business works and it's the model SMS have chosen (and it fit's MUCH better with the consoles).

I'm gutted the new BF2 has a pathetically small single player campaign after the backlash of BF having nothing. I hate MP centric games that crap on things I love (huge SW fan). I love the graphics and sounds of BF and how it immersed me.....then I saw a spinny floating icon and all immersion was instantly destroyed and then I have "cards" I mean wtf?.....but I don't moan on the forums I just buy the game in sale at a price point I'm prepared to pay. As consumers the best way to do things is to vote with our wallets.

TLDR...it's a fecking game people, stop getting your knickers in a twist!!

i agreed with you 100%. man, is just...i know is just a freking game. i know it.
but thats such a beautiful freking game, why messing the controls up... man developers had solved that in the freaking 90s i think....

thats the 4th time this developer does either a weird felling game, or updating and messing it up, draw hard lines between or pretty much mess up control devices...you name it. i bought it all.

and all had giant problems;

i gave my money to this team because i believe in them and the fact that, with some input, they can put out the best racing thing ever out there every year. and I tried my best to iron out the issues in everyone of then, and tried to gave my input to the team, but c'mon...go to the forums and point a problem is like a slap on everybody faces there...how thats helpful solving issues? i could iron out the hole world, woudn't make a dent in the game or next version anyway...

thats why i said the "never again" thing, i know is stupid and silly and infatile, i'm just exausted with this developer. I was not mocking or starting a flaming war etc. just frustration for this gorgeous software that didn't deliver what they told us ...again.

thanks for the kind answer btw
sorry for any bs of my part,
cheers

 

[Ville-Samuli Mutanen]

Hold on a second. I merely pointed out that we'd laser scanned Nordschleife, and proved it. If that makes me a nasty piece of work so be it. I even went as far to say he's entitled to his opinion on our handling...

Would you like to revise that statement?

Or was that in relation to something else? The post is no longer there, so I can't check:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...erth-Game-vs-Reality/page12&highlight=reality

I too would like to hear that. Especially what is the reason to delete own posts?

 

[apex11]

Yes quite how a racing driver making his own opinion of a game makes him 'unprofessional' is beyond me.
I guess Ian is so used to yes men that he is paying, that as soon as a person comes along who he hasn't paid to shill his game he can't quite work it out what is a normal way to interact with people.

 

[Rob Milliken]

i agreed with you 100%. man, is just...i know is just a freking game. i know it. thats why i said the "never again" thing, i know is stupid and silly and infatile, i'm just exausted with this developer. I was not mocking or starting a flaming war etc. just frustration for this gorgeous software that didn't deliver what they told us ...again.

You mean "You" right ? .. because there are a lot of us where it does deliver .. & this is how it starts ,this is another blanket statement that appears to claim that for everyone it does not deliver .. not true .. ppl using there own experience and carpet bombing it like it happens to everyone .. Its ok to not like something I I see your genuinely not a hater or a fan boy so don't take it the wrong way but its statements like this that poor's fuel on the fire ..

Yes quite how a racing driver making his own opinion of a game makes him 'unprofessional' is beyond me.
I guess Ian is so used to yes men that he is paying, that as soon as a person comes along who he hasn't paid to shill his game he can't quite work it out what is a normal way to interact with people.

Well you have to know all the details ..and they are not public .... & never will be ...

 

[apex11]

You mean "You" right ? .. because there are a lot of us where it does deliver .. & this is how it starts ,this is another blanket statement that appears to claim that for everyone it does not deliver .. not true .. ppl using there own experience and carpet bombing it like it happens to everyone .. Its ok to not like something I I see your genuinely not a hater or a fan boy so don't take it the wrong way but its statements like this that poor's fuel on the fire ..



Well you have to know all the details ..and they are not public .... & never will be ...

Well they are public as its a youtube vlog....that is kinda the point.