PC2 H-pattern cars, no clutch needed?

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

Hello,

I'm using a sequential shifter.

I would like to know why am i able to shift H-pattern cars without using the clutch, at any engine rpm.

The only thing you need to do is release the throttle, but even if you stay accelerating the gear still engages without damaging the gearbox.

What's happening?

EDIT: I was testing my Renault Kangoo today.

I found that it is perfectly possible to engage gears without using the clutch, but you need to be at the correct engine rpm, otherwise it will just stay in neutral. (No grinding sound, just stay in neutral).

Also, that it is a LOT easier to engage gears this way, when upshifting than when downshifting.

I only heard the grinding sound when i tried to engage gears while not using the clutch and accelerating at the same time.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Known issue

 

[ShawnG]

Not an "issue". It's how unsynchronized race transmissions work. Dog box trannys as used in most race cars through history can be used without the clutch, with a lift or blip allowing the gears to match revs. Another behavior often cited as "unrealistic" by sim fans is that with a dog box, you can "preselect" a gear by moving the shifter, and then when you blip or lift, the gear changes then. Street cars have a synchro gearbox which is slower and quieter for comfort reasons, but you need to use the clutch more.

 

[SHiko]

Not an "issue". It's how unsynchronized race transmissions work. Dog box trannys as used in most race cars through history can be used without the clutch, with a lift or blip allowing the gears to match revs. Another behavior often cited as "unrealistic" by sim fans is that with a dog box, you can "preselect" a gear by moving the shifter, and then when you blip or lift, the gear changes then. Street cars have a synchro gearbox which is slower and quieter for comfort reasons, but you need to use the clutch more.

I would say this argument is invalid as it is the same for all the road cars which does not have that kind of transmission and very much is super "unrealistic".

 

[hotak]

Here's the answer from one of the physics guys, basically the gear will always engage after 0,5s but a correctly timed shift will be faster

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...st-Patch-5-0&p=1510074&viewfull=1#post1510074


Following on from Nathan... regarding the clutch not working: The discussion is really about the gearbox and not the clutch. The clutch is a simple coupling that connects the engine crankshaft to gearbox input shaft. When it is used to disconnect those two shafts, it allows the gearbox synchronizers to work on the input shaft and engage the next selected gear. While our driveline model has signals to indicate 'The synchronizers are still doing their thing' or 'Hey, you are grinding the gears like a madman', we also have to consider devices ranging from gamepads with no/automatic clutch (and auto shifting itself), through basic steering wheels with fast shifting paddles and no clutch, to higher-end rigs with all the right hardware.

The choice we made was to have the gearbox act with a strong synchronizing effect such that, even with poor clutch use causing a missed gearshift, the time penalty afterwards before forcing into the selected gear is not huge. The aim for this was to not give a significant advantage either way. The time we use before forcing the next gear in H-pattern boxes is 0.5s, so completely disregarding the clutch or shifting carelessly and missing every shift will mean at least 0.5s with no power to the wheels. Smart, fast use of the clutch (or a brief throttle lift in racing gearboxes) should be quick enough to match that, and those who want to shift authentically, like me, can do that, with what we have now.

 

[SHiko]

Thats actually a good answer
Its all a middle way solution I guess but at least now its explained.

 

[2112]

Agreed.. It is the best answer I have seen. I have never had an issue with the "lack" of clutch as I don't drive the street cars, just the race cars. I know that a number of the vintage cars did not have dog boxes, so to speak, but neither were many of them fitted with synchro boxes. Thus even though the tranny's were not dog boxes they were often shifted without the clutch.

Heck, for that matter many of the pre-90's fire engines in the US had manual transmissions. Our '76 and '77 Crown Firecoach engines had split rear-end trannies without synchro. We all learned to shift without the clutch in those things. Same with our '86 E-One Hurricane.

When we received a 1995 E-One brush engine it had a six-speed synchro in which it was required that they clutch be used as we could not shift without it.

 

[NATomei]

Hello,

I'm using a sequential shifter.

I would like to know why am i able to shift H-pattern cars without using the clutch, at any engine rpm.

The only thing you need to do is release the throttle, but even if you stay accelerating the gear still engages without damaging the gearbox.

What's happening?

EDIT: I was testing my Renault Kangoo today.

I found that it is perfectly possible to engage gears without using the clutch, but you need to be at the correct engine rpm, otherwise it will just stay in neutral. (No grinding sound, just stay in neutral).

Also, that it is a LOT easier to engage gears this way, when upshifting than when downshifting.

I only heard the grinding sound when i tried to engage gears while not using the clutch and accelerating at the same time.

can u pass me the link of kangoo please?