AC GT3 @ Le Mans - Sunday 12th November 2023

[Alfred Wayne]

Stick with it dirk, you didn't kill me or yourself when I over took you, so that's a always a plus if there's a next time, try braking a little early lightly (500/600M) into the turns down a straight, usually a faster driver will take the opening and you can Slip in behind into the braking zone and still get a good exit, not compromising your line much or the passing car. I like to do that vs letting off at the start of a straight. It definitely is a skill to be learned and practiced though! My first races here were the same as Brian and Casper, blue flags, at least once a race, if not two, all while I just tried to finish a race without touching grass once

As for today's race, le mans is always a good time, and the merc weight transfer, braking and acceleration momentum fit it perfectly. These RSS/URD cars really are a joy to drive.

Luckily the bump at the start happened in a slow zone and I could hold the slide. After that it was 20min of super intense racing between myself, Hank, Ernie and Rob, the last two in the Porsche. Me and Hank with the advantage in the last third, and the Porsches running away on the straight.

Took an early pit to try and "pass" rob, but I'm guessing you had a connection drop soon after? One minute you were there then you weren't, which was a shame Seemed like it was going to be tough the whole race. Ended the race just holding Hank off, who gave me no space to make a mistake

Thanks as always for hosting Brian, and everyone else showing up to race! Everyone is getting faster for sure!

 

[dbx71]

Fun race today! Even if I was just mostly doing some lonely laps enjoying the scenery, it's still a blast to take these fantastic cars for a drive around such a legendary circuit.

How fortunate are we to live in a time where these racing sim platforms exist along with all the hardware to really bring the experience to life, such as FFB wheels, load cell pedals and not to mention VR! Awesome!

Congrats to Robert (racking up the victories!), and to Hank (Lanzos represent!), and to Paul for another podium finish! And of course, thank you to Brian for organizing.
See you at the next one.

 

[Douglas Aird]

Glad I managed to race but I was suffering from no practice prior to tonight with this car and track combination.

Got a decent start then lost it all when I braked too late and had to jink left onto the grass to avoid hitting Brian.

Drove ok for a bit but got 2 cuts and a warning in a single lap so had to back it off a little at some places.

Had some good battles but then messed up my pitstop. I clipped the tyre barrier on pit entry and had to do a 5 point turn, just getting out of the way of Dave making his own pitstop.

Set off to chase Dave but he was lapping about a second faster. Then Casper powered past me and I had a spin on fading rear tyres.

P7 in the end, I will take it!

Well done to everyone who made it and thanks, Brian, for organising.

 

[robthesquare]

Stick with it dirk, you didn't kill me or yourself when I over took you, so that's a always a plus if there's a next time, try braking a little early lightly (500/600M) into the turns down a straight, usually a faster driver will take the opening and you can Slip in behind into the braking zone and still get a good exit, not compromising your line much or the passing car. I like to do that vs letting off at the start of a straight. It definitely is a skill to be learned and practiced though! My first races here were the same as Brian and Casper, blue flags, at least once a race, if not two, all while I just tried to finish a race without touching grass once

As for today's race, le mans is always a good time, and the merc weight transfer, braking and acceleration momentum fit it perfectly. These RSS/URD cars really are a joy to drive.

Luckily the bump at the start happened in a slow zone and I could hold the slide. After that it was 20min of super intense racing between myself, Hank, Ernie and Rob, the last two in the Porsche. Me and Hank with the advantage in the last third, and the Porsches running away on the straight.

Took an early pit to try and "pass" rob, but I'm guessing you had a connection drop soon after? One minute you were there then you weren't, which was a shame Seemed like it was going to be tough the whole race. Ended the race just holding Hank off, who gave me no space to make a mistake

Thanks as always for hosting Brian, and everyone else showing up to race! Everyone is getting faster for sure!

Yeah that was fun little battle we had there. My pace has improved somewhat to the point where I can run up front every once in a while.

No connection drop though. I had a little oversteer moment on the entry to Indianapolis and smacked the wall. Which shouldn't have been too bad, but I suffered some sort of physics freakout that turned my car upside down and a hilariously severe set of consequences that are as follows:
-I was automatically teleported to the pits, which automatically refilled my fuel to what I had at the beginning of the session (61 liters)
-Then automatically executed my pit stop (tire change and an additional 35 liters of fuel)
-Then I had to redo the whole lap - that's a 7:18 lap time

So with my 96 liters of fuel and new tires I made an attempt at catching the back of the pack. Those attempts weren't particularly fruitful, despite catching them by around 10 sec a lap.

I did set fastest lap of the race on my final lap (3:59.xx). Yay.

Maybe next time.

 

[Interslice]

No connection drop though. I had a little oversteer moment on the entry to Indianapolis and smacked the wall. Which shouldn't have been too bad, but I suffered some sort of physics freakout that turned my car upside down and a hilariously severe set of consequences that are as follows:

Did you go through the wall on the right and fall through space and time?

 

[robthesquare]

That may have been what happened . It was definitely the wall on the right in the braking zone though.

 

[dbx71]

Yeah that was fun little battle we had there. My pace has improved somewhat to the point where I can run up front every once in a while.

No connection drop though. I had a little oversteer moment on the entry to Indianapolis and smacked the wall. Which shouldn't have been too bad, but I suffered some sort of physics freakout that turned my car upside down and a hilariously severe set of consequences that are as follows:
-I was automatically teleported to the pits, which automatically refilled my fuel to what I had at the beginning of the session (61 liters)
-Then automatically executed my pit stop (tire change and an additional 35 liters of fuel)
-Then I had to redo the whole lap - that's a 7:18 lap time

So with my 96 liters of fuel and new tires I made an attempt at catching the back of the pack. Those attempts weren't particularly fruitful, despite catching them by around 10 sec a lap.

I did set fastest lap of the race on my final lap (3:59.xx). Yay.

Maybe next time.

My respects to you for hanging in there and trying to fight your way back after a catastrophic setback like that. I was wondering how you got all the way back there too. Many folks would have just bailed, that's cool you stayed with it. I saw you gaining on me, which helped to keep me focused and push me along. Thanks for that...

 

[Interslice]

That may have been what happened . It was definitely the wall on the right in the braking zone though.

That's a 'feature' of that corner. There is no barrier and a black hole beyond!

 

[robthesquare]

Yeah. There's definitely value in sticking with it - If nothing else, it's good practice.

 

[dbx71]

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/circuit-thermalito-2023.64822/ have a look at this track its a work of art

guys;
fyi, i set up a race for this saturday (morning in US, afternoon in Europe) using this Thermalito track and featuring the VRC Auriel 90 cars if anyone is interested. i highly recommend you guys try the track / car combo, it's a blast. the practice server is up if anyone would like to give it a shot.

thanks again @eN1xes for letting us know about that track.

 

[dbx71]

also, just a reminder that we're doing the classic car event tomorrow: Ferrari vs Ford vs Porsche at Daytona. i'm filling in for Colin who is out this week. plenty of spaces left.

hope to see you then!

 

[Kek700]

Ramblings..

Now i have got over this race at Le Mans and the utter stupidity of track limits, I thought i would give my verdict on the Porsche 992.
I really like this car, by far my most favourite drive and Le Mans was a chance for it to shine.
So first. its advantage was removed with fixed gearing, that clobbered some of its performance.
Second thing is the car does just not point, it has silly amounts of understeer which then leads you into its third problem, kerbs, and its single tyre point instability.
If you happen to stray onto a kerb, this will flip the car.
The reason behind this is the cars lack of front bite, you would be convinced that the front tyres were road tyres, soft slick is not what they seem like.
To get this car to perform you need these to be in your favour, So when practicing here this car is very quick, but the race is totally different,
Slow death over steer, suspension goes wonky if you hit anything, lift of oversteer, if something unexpected occurs. if you do not lift, then track limit excursions because the thing understeers you onto them, if you lift to correct the car does an slow uncontrollable spin.
This car is great when practicing , but racing it is a mess.
Now i just cannot imagine this car is a successful race car, or is it when created on a sim. all its worst physics are amplified by the single point tyre model here on AC??
I can drive this car on ACC with no problem .
So it starts these races with a big disadvantage, you just have to push it to try and get it to be competitive, then that brings the above into play, so now it is doubly uncompetitive.

My days in my favourite car have unfortunately come to a grinding halt.

PS.
I did enjoy chasing Brian and Robert, with Robert the car unexpectedly taking to the scenery put paid to that and with Brian it got a bit monotonous waiting for me to flip the car then Brian to flip the car, finally pit penalty gave me the chance to throw the towel in.

 

[robthesquare]

Ramblings..

Now i have got over this race at Le Mans and the utter stupidity of track limits, I thought i would give my verdict on the Porsche 992.
I really like this car, by far my most favourite drive and Le Mans was a chance for it to shine.
So first. its advantage was removed with fixed gearing, that clobbered some of its performance.
Second thing is the car does just not point, it has silly amounts of understeer which then leads you into its third problem, kerbs, and its single tyre point instability.
If you happen to stray onto a kerb, this will flip the car.
The reason behind this is the cars lack of front bite, you would be convinced that the front tyres were road tyres, soft slick is not what they seem like.
To get this car to perform you need these to be in your favour, So when practicing here this car is very quick, but the race is totally different,
Slow death over steer, suspension goes wonky if you hit anything, lift of oversteer, if something unexpected occurs. if you do not lift, then track limit excursions because the thing understeers you onto them, if you lift to correct the car does an slow uncontrollable spin.
This car is great when practicing , but racing it is a mess.
Now i just cannot imagine this car is a successful race car, or is it when created on a sim. all its worst physics are amplified by the single point tyre model here on AC??
I can drive this car on ACC with no problem .
So it starts these races with a big disadvantage, you just have to push it to try and get it to be competitive, then that brings the above into play, so now it is doubly uncompetitive.

My days in my favourite car have unfortunately come to a grinding halt.

PS.
I did enjoy chasing Brian and Robert, with Robert the car unexpectedly taking to the scenery put paid to that and with Brian it got a bit monotonous waiting for me to flip the car then Brian to flip the car, finally pit penalty gave me the chance to throw the towel in.

I had a similar complaint with understeer (especially mid corner), but I was able to tune most of that out with aero balance changes. I do agree on the lift off oversteer which gets pretty pronounced after the tires wear. After about 25 minutes into a stint, you have to be extra delicate/thoughtful with your inputs.

I just find the car really dynamically pleasing. It requires a little more attention than other cars, but it rewards you when you get it right.

 

[davejevons]

I had a similar complaint with understeer (especially mid corner), but I was able to tune most of that out with aero balance changes. I do agree on the lift off oversteer which gets pretty pronounced after the tires wear. After about 25 minutes into a stint, you have to be extra delicate/thoughtful with your inputs.

I just find the car really dynamically pleasing. It requires a little more attention than other cars, but it rewards you when you get it right.

Yes, it's a very divisive car the 992. I find it so much more engaging than the others in this group and when it's hooked up it seems very powerful (cue BOP debates) but getting it to hook up reliably is tricky. I've had entry oversteer, exit understeer, entry understeer and exit oversteer all in one lap. At the same time I had a few laps of Le Mans where I was utterly absorbed in what it was doing and it felt awesome using the traction on exit to catch the person in front and plan where to make an overtake

As Rob says adjusting the aero balance, geo and damping does help but it takes a lot of time and effort and seems to require a lot more fettling than the other cars. For now, I'm enjoying the challenge of identifying the issue and then thinking through what changes in the setup might iron it out. If I haven't had time to practice I would jump in the Merc though.

I think Ernie makes a good point about the lack of tyre choice. With the Kunos GT3s you could sometimes work around a foible with a combonation of setup and tyre choice but the single tyre choice does put the 992 out of contention for some tracks. Ironically, I think it is probably strongest at somewhere like LeMans which rewards power and a good exit from slow speed corners.

 

[Kek700]

Interesting, you are certainly better with this car than I am.
For me I am in no man’s land, the only way to get more front aero bite is to run no wing.
You cannot get any aero to the front.
So that means trimming off rear wing.
But that means it is now ready to swap ends

So you want to run with 0 wing, but you have stability problems.
So you run with 1, but you have limitations on gear selection, which means you are on the rev limiter well before the next corner and the car is controllable but it’s on the edge.

So you run it at 2, this is the best for the race, but you are still leaving a lot of time on the table, still on the rev limiter.

You are now up against it, it still will not turn, so every corner apart from first and second gear corners you are up against it.
You now have to push the car in an attempt to make it competitive, because the following car will use you to tow them to the next corner.

Now you are trying to get more pace from an unstable car.
Just like with Robert, I tried to get through the corner with something that resembles a gap, ran wide, ( bleeding understeer ) hit the small sausages, car gone.

This is the problem with trying to balance cars out, the only thing in its favour for this race was its gearing, that was removed from the car.

Now if you put someone with ability into this car, the above can be ignored, but we are a bunch of normals, not aliens.

 

[robthesquare]

Interesting, you are certainly better with this car than I am.
For me I am in no man’s land, the only way to get more front aero bite is to run no wing.
You cannot get any aero to the front.
So that means trimming off rear wing.
But that means it is now ready to swap ends

So you want to run with 0 wing, but you have stability problems.
So you run with 1, but you have limitations on gear selection, which means you are on the rev limiter well before the next corner and the car is controllable but it’s on the edge.

So you run it at 2, this is the best for the race, but you are still leaving a lot of time on the table, still on the rev limiter.

You are now up against it, it still will not turn, so every corner apart from first and second gear corners you are up against it.
You now have to push the car in an attempt to make it competitive, because the following car will use you to tow them to the next corner.

Now you are trying to get more pace from an unstable car.
Just like with Robert, I tried to get through the corner with something that resembles a gap, ran wide, ( bleeding understeer ) hit the small sausages, car gone.

This is the problem with trying to balance cars out, the only thing in its favour for this race was its gearing, that was removed from the car.

Now if you put someone with ability into this car, the above can be ignored, but we are a bunch of normals, not aliens.

I'm curious to see if you find one of our set ups easier to drive or if it's just down to our particular driving style.

 

[davejevons]

Happy to share my setup with anyone who wants. My son managed a 3:59 with it so it has the potential to be quick.

 

[Kek700]

That good of you , I will give it a go, the trouble with setups that have a lot of settings, you can go down a rabbit hole, never to reappear.
I have got a low 3:38 and if I really try a long 3:37 Is on. Race day the car had no pace, but pace is not my moan, it’s instability and the randomness of it and understeer that seems excessive for this type of car, the low gears meant I had to make up time in corners to try and be competitive, which I failed miserably at.

PS I meant to say competitive pace, how fast you can do a lap is immaterial, as with me at this circuit, it is how reliably can you lap. I could not.

 

[robthesquare]

That good of you , I will give it a go, the trouble with setups that have a lot of settings, you can go down a rabbit hole, never to reappear.
I have got a low 3:38 and if I really try a long 3:37 Is on. Race day the car had no pace, but pace is not my moan, it’s instability and the randomness of it and understeer that seems excessive for this type of car, the low gears meant I had to make up time in corners to try and be competitive, which I failed miserably at.

Here's what I was running Sunday. Hope this helps!

 

[Kek700]

Well, that was a great setup, I thought at first a wing of 4 would slow you down.
Made no real difference.
Gearing makes a difference here, the long gears are worth over a second here. ( maybe a wing of 1 would take a 100% of that )
No wonder I struggled against the faster drivers.
The only two criticisms I have, one I will check out later , second is your suicidal brake balance, perfect for straight line braking, trail braking will be at some point precarious.
I run mine at 55, safer with no loss of lap time. ( but I understand if you use it to turn the car, but is the risk worth it )
Ironically your setup is the virtually the same as mine, did a MoTeC of both setups, when I get time I will study them both.

PS I think it was Brian who said it, it is a matter of spending a lot of time seeing what you can get away with, unfortunately 15 racing laps can make that difficult. May work for practice, but racing is another thing.
Still love the car, but next time I will pick something simpler to drive.